Is deathcap worth it anymore?

Rivuo·Sep 29, 2016·1 votes·1,532 views

It honestly seems like a noob trap. and i mean that by it sounds too appealing.

IMO some mid laners i play just cant afford to have deathcap instead of zhonyas or something. Is the extra ap worth it?

28 Comments

EndlessSorcererSep 29, 20165 votes

Generally it is worthwhile as a third or fourth item on most mages.

While it depends on the champion, a decent rule of thumb is to purchase it:

Third if you have utility ratios (i.e. shields, heals) such as Lux, Karma or Orianna
Fourth if you are primarily damage-oriented as Void Staff is more efficient for raw damage

oSEXYPLATYPUSoSep 29, 20161 votes

man i swear it is like people are going around and stating things i already said...

do you ever get that feeling?

EndlessSorcererSep 29, 20161 votes

Eh, somewhat.

I like to think I added a little more context, but not much.

Anyways, if that is the general reasoning then it will stay the same no matter how it is stated.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoSep 29, 20161 votes

lol its all good... im not mad i even upvoted your comment

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

oSEXYPLATYPUSoSep 29, 20162 votes

yes ... 120 ap +35% bonus ap that is 35% of your total ap

getting it 1st no... 3rd or 4th yes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ppUUdAQ_kA

Brimaz The KingSep 29, 20162 votes

It's not a first purchase item. But a great 3rd item.

TreeofwarSep 29, 20161 votes

yes get it.

MimySep 29, 20161 votes

The last time I ever build it was on a Veigar... and I had like 500+ AP at the moment it was built..

invisiblecat1Sep 29, 20161 votes

All AP items are messed up right now. Rabadon is just too expensive, and the utility items are just worth more Rylai's is needed on almost every AP champion or else you will die VERY quickly Liandry's is very weak on nearly every champion ZHonyas is cheaper now, but WHY did riot increase that cooldown??? Ludiens isn't worth it either, since they removed 20 AP the burst was vastly reduced Abyssal is decent, but the AP it gives is a little low Seraph's is situational Rod of Ages is pretty strong, and when combined with Rylai's makes it so annoying to kill enemies And finally Lich Bane is situational

Handy Sandy Sep 29, 20161 votes

Rabadon is just too expensive, and the utility items are just worth more

But utility items don't offer as much damage. 35% AP increase makes a big difference in your damage output.

Rylai's is needed on almost every AP champion or else you will die VERY quickly

Yes, and this combined with Rabadon's will let you kite very well

Liandry's is very weak on nearly every champion

Except if you're fighting 2-3 bruisers/tanks. Azir Cassiopeia Fiddlesticks Heimerdinger AurelionSol Anivia Karthus Malzahar Orianna Ryze Syndra Swain Ziggs Zyra can use this effectively to kite.

Ludens isn't worth it either, since they removed 20 AP the burst was vastly reduced

Except if you're an immobile low movement speed mage, such as Velkoz Swain or need something to help you kite or if you can't buy boots Cassiopeia

Abyssal is decent, but the AP it gives is a little low

Usually for AP assassins like Kassadin Leblanc because of the MR and AP. Some AP champs build it when they are vs another AP midlaner.

Seraph's is situational

Or a core item like on Ryze Anivia Swain Karthus , gives the 2nd most AP in the game along with a large mana pool and a shield.

invisiblecat1Sep 29, 20161 votes

How is Liandry's used to kite, and only 4 champions (Well most don't buy on swain) isn't a lot compared to the 50 or so AP champions

CerealBoxOfDoomSep 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

How is Liandry's used to kite, and only 4 champions (Well most don't buy on swain) isn't a lot compared to the 50 or so AP champions

kiting becomes worth it if you have liandries.. it might be more accurate to say instead that kiting is used to liandry's

Handy Sandy Sep 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

How is Liandry's used to kite, and only 4 champions (Well most don't buy on swain) isn't a lot compared to the 50 or so AP champions

it has health to let you sustain a little more of the bruiser/tank's attacks, some magic penetration, and it's passive will melt down their health pretty quickly. Basically any AP champ can use it if they have range and aren't pure burst like Lux It's also really good on swain because of his Q, E, and R.

Anyway not just 4 champions, in certain situations then most AP champs can make use of any mage item unless it's really worthless on them or something but those are just a few item/champion pairs.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoSep 29, 20161 votes

item 3151 works with by have %hp damage dot ... and if a champ is slowed, cc in any way it doubles the damage of the passive and gives hp ap and magic pen...

its best built with item 3116 due to the passive of item 3151

typically built in this order item 3136 item 3116 item 3151

those two items alone give a flat 180 ap 15 magic pen both passives which work with each other... and 700 hp

CerealBoxOfDoomSep 29, 20161 votes

Deathcap is always worth it on AP champs

But its important for different reasons on different champs

Name a mage and I will tell you why its important... or ill tell you that it isn't a mage or something.

RivuoSep 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Deathcap is always worth it on AP champs

But its important for different reasons on different champs

Name a mage and I will tell you why its important... or ill tell you that it isn't a mage or something.

Kassadin for example.

my build item 3157 item 3100 item 3020 item 3135 item 3027 item 3070

thats the prob. only 20% with that build but all those items are pretty core on kass

CerealBoxOfDoomSep 29, 20161 votes

kassadin isn't a mage, he's a mage-assassin

all items have alternatives on mage assassins and item 3070 builds into a heavy damage item anyways when combined with item 3027 which in turn accomplishes the same goal as rabadons. Later in the game if this isn't enough then you will sell your boots and get a item 3089

If they aren't stacking MR by lategame item 3135 can also be unneeded and item 3089 would be better

it would also be better if its actually the shield you need which has more to do with building into items rather than the end result

Again, yes kass is a mage but he's a mage assassin which isn't really a mage he's just a "mage"

mage assassins aren't really mages mage assassins aren't really assassins

they are their own thing.

RivuoSep 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

kassadin isn't a mage, he's a mage-assassin

all items have alternatives on mage assassins and builds into a heavy damage item anyways when combined with which in turn accomplishes the same goal as rabadons. Later in the game if this isn't enough then you will sell your boots and get a

If they aren't stacking MR by lategame can also be unneeded and would be better

it would also be better if its actually the shield you need which has more to do with building into items rather than the end result

Again, yes kass is a mage but he's a mage assassin which isn't really a mage he's just a "mage"

mage assassins aren't really mages mage assassins aren't really assassins

they are their own thing.

Well yeah i mean my point is at that point i think i should sell boots and buy deathcap instead of ever buying deathcap 6th item because especially with champs like kassadin who are mage assassins you definitly need a zhonyas and lich bane

CerealBoxOfDoomSep 29, 20161 votes

Ahri doesn't always need zhonya's and/or lichbane Leblanc doesn't always need lichbane... feels weird without zhonyas but probably doesn't always need it. if you count Elise I dunno what she builds now but I doubt zhonyas or lich bane is extremely high priority.

elise who is furthest from being a mage out of the three needs rabadons the lest

Ahri who is closest to being a mage is most likely to actually "need" one especially for her heal and true damage.

RivuoSep 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

doesn't always need zhonya's and/or lichbane doesn't always need lichbane... feels weird without zhonyas but probably doesn't always need it. if you count I dunno what she builds now but I doubt zhonyas or lich bane is extremely high priority.

elise who is furthest from being a mage out of the three needs rabadons the lest

who is closest to being a mage is most likely to actually "need" one especially for her heal and true damage.

yeah if you're referring to ahri or leblanc i agree. I just have a hard time itemizing when im playing an AP champ. I always feel like im making the wrong decision.

CerealBoxOfDoomSep 29, 20161 votes

most high level guides will tell you the same thing, mage-assasssins.. ahri in particular because she's more important than other champs.. have no particular must build items. They do have things that simply have great interactions but basically everything is situational and everything has a purpose and certain things go with certain other things.

On ahri for example since she's the most important champion in existence if you get item 3089 item 3135 then that's all your "damage youre going to need and the rest is just common sense items that go well with ahri. You could be a fucking idiot at math but once you have these if you have problems in the future its not because you didn't have enough damage from your base items. But then nobody starts with these 2 items because that's not smart usually

if you want to burst you build something else If you can one shot you build something else if you want to deal maximum damage you build something else if you want to deal max damage over time or you want to knock down towers you build something else

Then you have traditional stuff like Veigar or Anivia . Originally you would just get item 3089 but now there is an alternative to rabadons which also stacks with rabadons item 3027 + item 3003 . Youre gonna get one or the other and if you can find an excuse to youre gonna get because simply having way too much ap on these champs is good enough to win

Also keep in mind that originally there was just item 3089

now there's item 3089 item 3050 blue buff and dragon buff as well as item 2139 and baron buff

Not to say these are great buys but the cap on AP if you want to shoot that high has risen some. and item 3070 was buffed as well.

Put in the simplest terms, item 3089 is a lategame item for a champion type that tends to excel at the midgame unlike item 3031 which is a lategame item for champs that excel at the lategame. This becomes much less confusing now when I reveal to you that games have gotten short as hell and tend to get even shorter as you rise in rank

http://www.leaguemath.com/match-duration-analysis/

a link for sampling, I'm sure there's a better example but I'm putting this here so you know to look for one if you want to have that convo.

TL;DR

Rabadon's has a place in every mage or close to mage kit, but it fits a particular strategy that may or may not be needed.

Rabadon's = nuclear option for some champs but nuclear option is legit

PermabannedGarenSep 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Kassadin for example.

my build

thats the prob. only 20% with that build but all those items are pretty core on kass

Kass doesn't get Seraph's lol.

item 3027 item 3158 item 3100 item 3157 item 3135 item 3089

This is generally speaking what he gets.

RivuoSep 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Kass doesn't get Seraph's lol.

This is generally speaking what he gets.

Without seraphs you will not be able to double riftwalk 800.

Tear on kassadin is a must. No question about it.

PermabannedGarenSep 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Without seraphs you will not be able to double riftwalk 800.

Tear on kassadin is a must. No question about it.

With the damage Rabadon's provides you won't need to double riftwalk 800 to kill an enemy squishy.

Tear on Kass is unnecessary. Who told you that it was a must-purchase? I know pros almost never build it.

RivuoSep 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

With the damage Rabadon's provides you won't need to double riftwalk 800 to kill an enemy squishy.

Tear on Kass is unnecessary. Who told you that it was a must-purchase? I know pros almost never build it.

I agree, from every lcs game and high elo stream i watch, Theres only a few mid laners who ever build tear on kassadin.

Still i feel like Tear IS deathcap essentially just a tad weaker version you know?

What is it like 160 AP vs 120 + 35%?

Id rather take the tear i guess

ReikkenSep 29, 20161 votes

yes

III BAKURYU III Sep 29, 20161 votes

Depends on what champion and YES it's still a viable item to pick up but not 1st 2nd or 3rd item. item 3165 and item 3001 are the 2 best early game AP items in the game bar none. With item 3027 and item 3003 as a utility item for the LATE game.

Early if your are destroying your lane opponent YES get it maybe 1st item but I recommend 2nd if anything mainly because if you're destroying your lane opponent they will want to leave lane and get back in the game with roams so your flat DMG will help instead from other AP items that are more for "lane" but still viable. Like item 3165 has item 3802 that helps you stay in lane longer and play more aggressive than item 3070 .

My opinion on AP mid build would be item 3165 helps secure kills against healing and gives back mana from early ganks from your jungler if you can get a kill or assist. item 3001 If you are winning not "hard" but just coasting they will most likely build the same to counter you with the MR so building it helps in teamfights. item 3151 3rd item for everyone and most likely top-jng-sup are some what tanky so this is the perfect item for them. The more Hp and tank they get the DMG you will do.

Tear/ROA can be included early but it's meh depends on what champion you are playing as.

Thanks for having me

AnatharionSep 29, 20161 votes

Only get it if you are way ahead on kills and farm and gold. If not buy Rylai's. If you already have Rylai's get the Voidstaff. The deathcap is awesome but its very expensive and if you are behind in gold you can't afford to wait that long for a power spike to help your team.