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Is Tahm Kench a Juggernaut?

Ch0c0lateJesus·1/20/2016, 5:03:23 AM·13 votes·1,610 views

So, according to Riot, a juggernaut is a champ with no true mobility, but can kill anything that can't get away from it "over a matter of seconds" (one of the design devs own words) . A champ that requires a team effort to take down because they are super tanky have a lot of sustain, and do a ton of damage at the same time. Seems to me that TK fits this description pretty well.

Only problem is, my understanding is that juggernauts are supposed to sacrifice utility for all of that. Tham Kench however, has one of the best single target support abilities in the game, along with a mini TF ult that can bring someone with him, and set up big plays.

So my question for Rito is: Is he meant to be a juggernaut? and if so, why does he have so much utility? If he isnt meant to be a juggernaut, why does he deal so much damage and sustain? An average of 300 added to his abilities with his ult passive, while building nothing but tank items. He can get even more if he stacks HP hardcore.

Why is he allowed to fill both roles so well?

19 Comments

Spoofghoul1/20/2016, 10:23:32 AM6 votes

You can also think of it this way, tahm does not have any aoe damage, sacrifices his utility ability if he wants to nuke someone.

There are trade offs so in that sense it is balanced.

I never saw Tahm as broken op. The main issue i personally had with tahm was never his uility or tankyness or damage. But mainly 2 things

the movespeed boost when he runs away with a devoured ally, which made it never a bad decision.
the freaking aquired taste stacks last forever, allowing him to zone you forever.

I don't think he needs a damage nerf at all whatr he needs is a nerf to how long this acquired taste sticks to people. The movement boost nerf was a really good one now just the stacking nerf.

Make his description become support juggernaut and were done.

CatboyAsbel1/20/2016, 7:06:13 AM4 votes

I don't know how they're gonna gut alistar's damage for being tanky utility then just release this fuck who is worse than when ali did damage in every way.

DorkunedAuras1/20/2016, 6:53:10 AM2 votes

Everyone, Tahm's getting nerfed next patch. His Bonus % Hp Ratios from his ult are being reduced from 4/6/8 to 2/4/6

ALL HAIL RIOT FOR FIXING THIS!

Dr Jinzo1/20/2016, 7:09:18 AM2 votes

TAHM NEEDS A DMG NERF..PERIOD. No way during late game can he atk without atk speed items as fast as he does. He can kill Braum (with over 5k health) by just stacking and W, and other tanks, can't even dmg him by just having tank items, its really unbalanced. And on top of that, he gets a BS shield that doubles his life span in fights. HE IS literally broken. No tank should be able to 1v1 anyone without dmg items. Something needs revisiting.

Death by Glamour1/20/2016, 5:33:17 AM2 votes

He likely wont get nerfed until he starts countering zed in lcs...

Sachabot1/20/2016, 5:08:12 AM2 votes

Most supports have pretty high base values because they don't usually have a chance to scale by buying damage items. Tahm's biggest problem is his percent damage, which was made with the same mindset, but should not have been, at least in my opinion.

Partholonian1/21/2016, 1:07:05 AM1 votes

Tahm has way too much utility and CC to be a juggernaut. IIRC Riot has said that Mundo's Q alone is enough to disqualify him from being a true juggernaut and Tahm definitely has more utility and CC than Mundo.

If he is dealing too much damage then they should nerf his damage (which I think they actually are doing on PBE right now). It isn't the key to his identity the way his tankiness and Devour are.

A Tahm that does less damage is still Tahm. Even if you can hardly notice his damage you still don't want to ignore his attacks because of what he can do once he gets 3 stacks on you.

A Tahm that can't save allies who are in a bad spot, or who doesn't have a scary level of CC to people who have 3 stacks on them, is someone else, someone less interesting.

MunchCrunchLunch1/20/2016, 7:20:33 AM1 votes

garen is a juggernaut and he can reach almost 600 MS with his MS boost and dead mans.

DunkinNoobs1/20/2016, 9:16:51 AM1 votes

That's probably the best possible descriptor for him, yes.

doombotMECHA1/20/2016, 2:02:55 PM1 votes

no, he doesn't really have the scaling to be a juggernaut. his %health damage means he deals chunks to most champs, but he's rarely lethal on his own.

The Loveless1/20/2016, 5:18:49 PM1 votes

No. He's listed as support first, then tank. As someone below me said, if Tahm wants to deal huge damage by devouring an enemy, he sacrifices utility where he could have swallowed an ally instead with the move.

The way I see it, Morde can nuke you in 3 quick hits, Garen can burst you down if you're the villain, Darius can constantly dunk if certain conditions are met (enemy team are all already below a death threshold), Illaoi has to line up q and steadily press w for constant tentacle lashes with no guarantee that she'll hit targets, and Skarner...well, he went from getting a rock to kicking rocks.

I say all that to say I think Tahm takes much longer to kill you than any of these champs, and I firmly believe you have more time to escape him if you can use minions/allies/monsters to wade through and dodge his q. Yeah Deadmans gives him MS, and yeah with full build he's oppressive, but if you're a mage or adc, why aren't you oppressive as well with full build?

Nikoyopu1/20/2016, 5:43:43 PM1 votes

He seems more like a tank killer, almost an anti-juggernaut to me.