Was bored so i did some AP vs AD laning math

The Voids Call·Feb 20, 2016·13 votes·1,125 views

(2400g) effective stats. 60mr / 45ms / 20% ten / 20 AD / 110 HP / (at level 1) effective value. 1,080 / 540 / -----------------/ 700 / 293.33 / 2,613.33

(2300g) effective stats. 45ar / 35ap / 45ms / 15Mpen / (full stacks) effective value. 900 / 761.25 / 540 / --------------/ ** 2201.25**

(2800g) effective stats. 45ar / 60ap / 15Mpen / (full stacks) effective value. 900 / 1,305/ --------------/ 2,205

... calculation sources

20% tenacity and 15Mpen values are considered equal due to equal costs of & luckly both are difficult to quantify

...

I did the math, feel free to express opinions below.

Obviously this doesn't consider all the ways you could spend ~2500g

9 Comments

Very Hard EngageFeb 20, 20165 votes

the problem is..... ap mid laners are supposed to be weaker in the laning phase. but perform better while maintaining a level lead.

and apparently riot wants an adc abilities to deal just as much damage as an ap champions abilities, in addition to empowered auto attacks. when back in my day adcs were meant to auto attack, give steroids, or its an escape/ult.

so it raises the question, why does an assassin/ad mid laner, get the same amount of damage on their abilities, AND maintain stronger auto attacks... well they're melee right? we can just kite them! they dont have targeted gap closers...... oh wait.....

i fully support that any ranged opponent should kick the stuffing out of any ad champ until they counterbuild with MR. and a "skill matchup" should be a fantasy, no, you picked melee blind or you counterpicked yourself, tuff, dont like it? head top lane/jungle.

MunchCrunchLunchFeb 20, 20166 votes

correction. riot wants adc auto attacks do do as much if not more damage than an ap mage ability that has a cooldown. I mean with runes and stuff. adcs can do 1k+ damage a crit which is stupid.

StreetonFeb 20, 20162 votes

{quoted}

the problem is..... ap mid laners are supposed to be weaker in the laning phase. but perform better while maintaining a level lead.

and apparently riot wants an adc abilities to deal just as much damage as an ap champions abilities, in addition to empowered auto attacks. when back in my day adcs were meant to auto attack, give steroids, or its an escape/ult.

so it raises the question, why does an assassin/ad mid laner, get the same amount of damage on their abilities, AND maintain stronger auto attacks... well they're melee right? we can just kite them! they dont have targeted gap closers...... oh wait.....

i fully support that any ranged opponent should kick the stuffing out of any ad champ until they counterbuild with MR. and a "skill matchup" should be a fantasy, no, you picked melee blind or you counterpicked yourself, tuff, dont like it? head top lane/jungle.

i would point out the extreme bias in this post but im too lazy:p

AsphodelNextFeb 20, 20162 votes

15 flat MPen could be considered as 15 negative MR for your opponent. So in a pure 1v1 matchup, you could treat it as having that gold value, which would be 270 gold. However, if you consider 15 negative MR for the whole enemy team, it would be 1350. So it should be somewhere in that range(probably towards the bottom).

The Voids CallFeb 20, 20161 votes

Sure, but in the same way you could also consider tenacity to function against the entire enemy team's CC. For this reason i excluded the value of "negative MR", which i had considered, because for the same cost tenacity provides negative CC.

It's also more complex than the simple math i did after having not slept for 30 hours. The truth is flat Mpen is more valuable the less mr they have and inversely true that the more they have the less valuable it is, because of how the damage resistance scales.

AsphodelNextFeb 20, 20161 votes

Fair enough, though if you're using the MR diminishing returns argument, you have to consider that each additional point of MR is worth less than the last, and then you have to do something horribly complicated to the gold efficiency.

Also, I think item 3136 item 3191 does so bad in your calculation is because you missed the 200 bonus health from . This would bring it back up by 533 gold to 2,738 effective value.

Questionable whether item 3155 is actually 110 health. If you were doubtful about Mpen being negative MR, you should also be doubtful that shielding is HP, especially because shields run out after a duration, but come back after a cooldown.

Sire HippingtonFeb 20, 20162 votes

actually, mpen is worth more than tenacity, as you pay 450 for the mr on mercs, so only 350 for 20 ms and 20% tenacity, while you pay 800 for 20 ms and 15 pen on sorcs, so if you use that as bases, saying the ms is worth ~240g(boots give 25ms for 300g, so 29ms is 240g), this leaves tenacity at 110g and mpen at 560g

the big problem is that mpen isn't as valuable 1v1, as 1v1 it could be seen as negative mr like pointed out by Asphodel, so in lane mages get alot less out of their boots. A more fitting comparison would probably ninja's on mages, as they are the most effective boots vs ad.