The Overwhelming First Stack of Dragon.

Steelflame··2 votes·1,149 views

Why is it, that for the very first stack of Dragon, that it provides a relatively large snowball mechanic? Even more so, a snowball mechanic that strengthens both Jungle and Bot the most, already one of the worst setups when it comes to snowballing? Amping damage makes the lanes snowball harder (and %AD boost bot the most by far, except for the AD casters that are only sometimes in games) and boost a junglers clear, meaning a stronger gold advantage and stronger ganks out of the jungle as well. Congrats, you have just made the unholy trio of snowballing (Mid, jungle, and bot) snowball that much harder.

  1. 8% bonus to AD and AP
  2. 15% bonus damage to minions/monsters.
  3. 5% bonus MS
  4. 15% bonus structure damage.

Which of these stats most affect your early-mid game power? Which is provided? Yep, the most potent of them for snowballing a game, is the first provided. I have seen games decided as early as first dragon, because it is nearly as valuable as old Baron was. And want to know the scary thing? You can do the first dragon literally within the first 5 minutes of the game on some junglers. Some of them within the first 3. And not only has it snowballed the lanes, but it snowballs the junglers ability to control both sides of the jungle. Mid lanes, depending on who it is, can also be snowballed hard on it almost instantly, not at a delayed point in time as what you would think a %buff should be.

Please, swap the first and third buff from dragon, because as is, a 8% AD buff is nearly as devastating as losing your tower in the lane phase if you were not already ahead. You could even swap it from just a %AD/AP buff, to a %AD/AP/Armor/MR buff, at 5% for each. This would make it grant it's power boost more evenly across all classes, than just the damage classes (All the other buffs evenly boost all classes for the most part. The first buff is the only exception to this rule.) Meanwhile, a %MS boost enhances early game roaming, but doesn't boost your ability to just sit in someones lane and try and be oppressive to them or 1 combo delete them.

Also, it feels odd that Dragon and Baron are competing on being the "pushing/Sieging" boosters and stat granting booster (Baron's AD/AP buff, Dragon's minion/structure damage buff). Push Dragon into direct stat buffs, Baron into siege control (damage vs structures and minions up, your towers get a flat shield boost (1 time per Baron), and. Baron should give regeneration and the minion boost, Dragon should give raw stat enhancements.

My idea for a more "focused" Dragon would have the stats given out as so...

  1. %MS boost.
  2. Armor/MR boost
  3. AD/AP boost
  4. %penetration boost
  5. Applies one more stack of all boost permanently.

This pushes the Dragon's oppressive powers later into the game (meaning 1 dragon does not start a snowball, but does enhance early team movements), while later stacks start to turn on the god mode. Perhaps for 3 minutes after Dragon the stats are doubled. Meanwhile, a Baron is both great for forcing a stall, or pushing for more instant gratification of power.

11 Comments

Angry Monster2 votes

all 4 of the stats are strong. It does not matter what order they are in for someone they are useful.

Maybe you should fight for dragon controal then?

Steelflame1 votes

I don't disagree that all of them are strong, but one is significantly has significantly more impact than any other. It also happens to be the earliest obtainable.

Angry Monster1 votes

So 8% means less in the first 20 minutes of the game.

Imagine what happens when a team that was fighting even at til 30 minutes and gets 3rd dragon if the 8% was moved. It would feel like a lot bigger difference. With it being a tier 1 dragon their is a bigger chance for both sides to get the buff and balance out.

Steelflame1 votes

I disagree on that matter. If you push the damage to the third stack, this means that you have had 3 opportunities to contest for that dragon that directly surges a decent lineup of champion's capabilities. Meanwhile, the first stack means that if you sneak it even once, you instantly snowball your ability to control fights, not just the map, as the MS would give.

In the old times where Dragon only gave gold, this meant that getting it didn't instantly grant you its power, it granted it at the next time your recalled. If you tried an early dragon sneak, this wouldn't let you instantly be at a power advantage, you could still be fought, at least for a minute or so, before it's benefits showed themselves in lane, if not significantly longer (TP being one of the few exceptions to this, but even then you probably wouldn't just randomly recall because of the +200 gold, you still would be waiting for the next major power spike item wise before you would have recalled). You had to at least recall, which could result in you losing some lane gold/xp.

Matthevv1 votes

Man you did not do any math before you posted this, did you? You get more ad/ap from masteries than you do from the dragon buff early game.

8% AD/AP is not much at all early game. It is a very minor boost in power and easily worth the objective control.

Steelflame1 votes

Perhaps, but the bonus keeps increasing it's value as the game progresses. Having already won the first Dragon, you now have made it easier to win all fights after it. Perhaps for the first fight after Dragon, it is only worth like 300-400 gold on some carries. By the 2 fight for Dragon, it is worth 500- 600 gold on carries. The Third could be 1k+ gold. This is ignoring the fact that following dragons give even more bonuses. I probably wouldn't mind honestly if they actually did that one change they talked about of Dragon being more threatening the more stacks you have of it, but it isn't. It is still dirt easy to solo the blasted thing (Lets not even count Pantheon in this. He just breaks dragon to patheticness.)

Lets pretend this... You now are in lane against an enemy of equal skill. Now, you realize that you grabbed the wrong runes, and have Mpen for example on Vayne (lets just pretend that the other runes were very generically useful for Vayne). The enemy don't have this derpup. Would you really want to play against this? This is literally what the very first dragon is worth in bot lane for the ADC.

Edit : I wasn't the one who downvoted you. Just before you think this is me trying to keep your PoV down to force my views).

Matthevv1 votes

Except that even when you accidentally use the wrong runes the game and lane is still winnable. Just because you lose the first dragon does not mean you can't get the second one.

Dragon is on a 6 minute spawn timer. 6 minutes worth of stat increases is still not enough for the first dragon stack to be big. There should be some kind of punishment for missing dragon. As it is right now it is only a minor punishment.

Matthevv2 votes

Dat 8 ad, 16 ap, too stronk. Not like its that difficult for a team to get a single dragon if they have proper objective control.

Kuroi861 votes

8% AD/AP too strong...

Let me put this into perspective. Full AD build. item 3031 item 3046 item 3006 item 3072 item 3035 item 3026 200 AD before runes/masteries. 8% is 16 AD...

Full AP build. item 3157 item 3128 item 3089 item 3020 item 3135 item 3001 650 AP before runes/masteries. 8% is 52 AP...

Cozarkian1 votes

8% AD/AP too strong...

Let me put this into perspective. Full AD build. Kalista item 3031 item 3046 item 3006 item 3072 item 3035 item 3026 309 AD before runes/masteries. 8% is 25 AD...

Which translates to 68 pre-mitigation damage per second from auto-attacks using that build.

Kuroi861 votes

Landing crits, yes.
That is still a rather minimal amount compared to what you would already land.

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