Zhonya's Paradox - a more expensive version of 5.21's Zhonya's Hourglass

DrCyanide·Sep 13, 2017·49 votes·2,862 views

3900g 100 AP 60 Armor

Patch 5.21

3000g 100 AP 50 Armor

900g for +10 armor, while gives +15 armor for 300g

The years have not been friendly to , that's for sure.

EDIT: Zhonya's didn't have 10% CDR 2 years ago, it's a fair consideration in the value and cost of items. The Wiki values 10% CDR at 267g, which would probably bring our 5.21 Zhonya's price to 3250g to make it a nice number (since completed items tend to be more efficient). That's still 650g for +10 armor.

38 Comments

I Main SwainSep 13, 201710 votes

i swear idk who the crap is in charge of the ap items but i want to punch them in the throat. gut everything and replace it with cdr and damage converted to mana and act like its balanced

DuskDaUmbreonSep 13, 201710 votes

Ornn's items aren't meant to be cost-efficient. They're meant to be slot efficient. They're the most slot-efficient items that exist.

That's the thing with end-game items. They're not really cost efficient. They're expensive, and they give good stats, but the stats are rarely worth the gold cost. Instead, it makes up for it by giving the best stats. All of Ornn's items qualify as that.

DrCyanideSep 13, 20172 votes

Zhonya's in 5.21 wasn't an end game item, it was an item you bought second or third.

To the best of my knowledge, none of Ornn's other upgrades bring items close to where they were 2 years ago with a cost adjustment. They're improvements on the item, making them better stat wise than they ever have been. The exception is Zhonya's, which has been nerfed so much that even after paying 1000g you still aren't back to where it was in it's glory days.

AazzlanoSep 14, 20174 votes

End-game AP items are not cost efficient.

End-game AD items are hella efficient, some in the realm of 150-160% efficiency.

CanastusSep 14, 20172 votes

So much for being the greatest blacksmith Runeterra has ever seen. He might be overcharging people for his products.

PePsiLemoNNSep 13, 20179 votes

Hehe , let's compare an item in the game now to how it was 2 seasons ago. Sounds right. Also now it has CDR so idk what you're on about.

DrCyanideSep 13, 201728 votes

I just edited the original to account for the CDR, it comes out to about 650g for +10 armor that way.

The only point is how much Zhonya's has been nerfed over the years. We pay 1000g extra for a "super Zhonya's" now, but it's barely any better than the basic Zhonya's we had 2 years ago.

Votable JesterSep 14, 20175 votes

Don't forget the nerf to its cooldown.

I Main SwainSep 13, 20179 votes

yeah because cdr is soooooo hard to get now amirite

ExcessiveProtestSep 14, 20178 votes

Just like to add the current one also has a 33% longer cooldown after use compared to two years ago. Since the balance team likes to talk about how powerful the active it is, it's probably fair to factor that in here too.

MuzétSep 13, 20177 votes

(But he didn't have C... /slapped/) The Zhonya is just... meh. But well we wanted another AP Item we got it hey :)

DrCyanideSep 13, 20179 votes

Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy to have something that's less snowball reliant in Ornn's upgrade arsenal.

It's just a little funny when you consider how you would sell that to the League community 2 years ago. "When this character is in the game, you can pay 900g and get +10 armor to Zhonya's, isn't that awesome!"

MuzétSep 13, 20175 votes

2 years ago it would be: "Hey you've got +10 Armor And +10% CDR watch out!"

SpoofghoulSep 13, 20174 votes

2 years ago that cdr would have been worth it

right now it's hard not to overbuild it

MuzétSep 13, 20171 votes

I know right that's why they're going to release Overcharger rune

DuskDaUmbreonSep 13, 20171 votes

Eh. On mages (not enchanters), I actually have a hard time capping CDR. 35% is what I tend to hit (Morello+Banshee's+Intelligence), as I don't use runes that give CDR.

Now, on enchanters and some tanks, it's crazy-easy to waste CDR. Assassins are relatively easy to cap, but not waste.

SteelflameSep 14, 20172 votes

Suprising, considering most mages would happily enjoy at least one of these items item 3100 item 3157 item 3152 or perhaps item 3001 , although that would be a stretch with also using Banshee unless either being vs or as a 4-5 magic damage dealer comp or something like that.

Even if you just assumed Morello-Banshee-Sorcs-Void, you still have 2 slots to fill. Almost no-one buys Rabadon virtually, even in the ultra-lategame.

DuskDaUmbreonSep 14, 20171 votes

My mages are pretty much just Ahri and Karthus. Ahri's item 3165 > item 3020 > item 3146 > item 3102 > item 3135 > item 3089 / item 3157 . High damage, high burst build. Hits 35% or 45% CDR. No way to go over.

And on Karthus I run the ancient Seraph's line, since he can stack it relatively easily.

Power MacSep 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy to have something that's less snowball reliant in Ornn's upgrade arsenal.

It's just a little funny when you consider how you would sell that to the League community 2 years ago. "When this character is in the game, you can pay 900g and get +10 armor to Zhonya's, isn't that awesome!"

I agree, it's a pretty steep price for some amor and some CD (which can obtained with way better items, especially if we consider that Ornn's enhancements were thought as "seventh items").

SweedishGunnerSep 13, 20177 votes

Active cooldown used to be lower too.

AhrisSep 13, 20176 votes

Most apc's dont even build zhonyas except when needed.

WoonStruckSep 13, 20175 votes

Zhonya's Paradox is trash-tier. If you're gunna spend 1k gold, might as well get 50 AP over 30 AP and 15 armor.

The armor needs to be bumped up to +25 or +30 for it to ever be a decent choice. Just 15 armor won't save you against anything late game.

EkyonKunSep 13, 20173 votes

I honestly think Zhonya's Paradox needs to add the current stats it has atm, AND ALSO reduce the cooldown by 30 seconds (What it USED to be). It'd still be a more expensive version of its original self, but at least there's...SOME benefit. Am I crazy? Is it just me? It can't be just me, surely.

The Yetii RiderSep 14, 20172 votes

With the increase in use of lethality since 5.21, armor is more valuable than it used to be. Especially for champions that don't build a lot of it, like DPS champions.

Honestly, that needs to be taken into account when assessing the gold value of armor items. How much of a lethality item are you effectively ignoring? What gold value are you denying to the enemy champion?

ThilmerSep 14, 20172 votes

I have stopped buying Zhonya completely. It's stats are shit; it's famous "overpowered active" has been nerfed too.

It's not worth the gold.

KuroCaliberSep 13, 20171 votes

Old Zhonya's (100AP version) was 3500G , so you kinda did pay 300G for 10 armor.

DrCyanideSep 13, 20172 votes

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Zhonya%27s_Hourglass

Patch 5.13 reduced the AP to 100, the price to 3000g. 5.22 increased the price to 3500g and removed 5 armor.

KuroCaliberSep 13, 20172 votes

I know, so, it's not exactly a holistic judgement. You kinda cherry-picked a patch that supported your argument.

DrCyanideSep 13, 20172 votes

The stats I gave covered from 5.13 through 5.21, 9 patches.

Before 5.13 Zhonyas cost 3300g and had 120AP, and had been at that point since 4.20, roughly 20 patches earlier. Before 4.20, it was 3260g and had been that way since 3.02, roughly 40 patches. About 60 patches at 120 AP, ~3300g.

5.22 through 6.8 (price 3500g, 100 AP, 45 Armor) was 11 patches.

If I was going for a "holistic" approach, I'd be comparing the upgrade to the 120 AP, ~3300g hourglass, since that version was the longest lived. The reduced cost for reduced AP version makes more sense to compare with than the increased price for decreased stats version.

BobaFlautistSep 13, 20171 votes

Patch 5.21 didn't have 10% CDR yet, right? CDR is hard to value but 600g for 10% CDR & top tier slot efficiency doesn't feel so bad.

DrCyanideSep 13, 20171 votes

You're right, I forgot about CDR initially. The wiki values 10% CDR at 267g, 10 armor at 200g. If you add these to the base 5.21 Zhonya's cost you get 3467g, probably rounded down to 3450g if it was in game because completed items tend to be more efficient.

DragonSheaSep 13, 20171 votes

Riot need to do their math.

AirKingNeoSep 13, 20171 votes

You also forget CDR is a stat who's value is greater than what it's gold efficiency says.

ZapMyHeartSep 14, 20172 votes

{quoted}

You also forget CDR is a stat who's value is greater than what it's gold efficiency says.

With how easy CDR is to access, its value has gone down considerably. I would take extra AP compared to CDR arbitrarily slapped onto yet another item.

AirKingNeoSep 14, 20171 votes

Accessibility doesn't low a stat's value.

ZapMyHeartSep 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Accessibility doesn't low a stat's value.

It does when everything you buy can potentially overcap it, making the stat useless and you're basically wasting gold as a result. AP itemization is shit and slapping CDR on yet another AP item is silly, when mage mains are sick of it already.

JobriqSep 14, 20171 votes

Most AP items had more AP then except for deathcap.

Oakleaf RangerSep 14, 20171 votes

Is there any reason to compare it vs an older version of itself?

Its an upgrade that is available to teams only with Ornn. Essentially more power available to your team that is inaccessible to the enemy. That's how I think of it at least and why I don't really see the reason to compare it like that.