Boards›Gameplay

Guys. Cmon. Vayne is not broken.

Bârd··4 votes·923 views

Is she strong?

Yes. Very.

Is she the strongest?

No.

Why does she have such a high pick rate?

Because she is fun and has enough outplay potential that lots of people main her.

-_- Ok, so lets look at some of the other ADC's Jinx Great chasing if she gets a kill or assist Can have either moderate range and massively increased attack speed, or long range with 10% bonus damage and AOE autos. Pick potential with the slow on Zap Chompers can be used to block paths, self peel, or to follow up on allied CC. Global AOE execute.

Tristana Long range massive attack speed bonus Long range jump with resets Autopushing (a bit of a double edged sword there) Dat bomb. Crushes towers. Massive AOE knockback.

Ashe Long range passive slows constant crits vision attack speed steroid/slow increase/damage multiplier on Q AOE damage on W Global 3 second stun

now, lets look at vayne

Vayne Low range Great chasing short cooldown/short range dash with an auto reset % HP true damage single target knockback/stun Massive AD steroid and stealth, which is easily countered by an attentive support (item 2043 item 3364 )

Vayne has some clear strengths -Melts tanks and squishies alike -Sick outplays -Spams stealth -Queen of lategame

but also has clear weaknesses -Weak early (Yes, she IS weak early. She will only win lane if she gets multiple ganks or her lane opponents fuck up royally) -Low range (Makes diving her in teamfights easy) -Low self peel (She can knock one person away. In a teamfight versus people who are doing all they can to dive on her) -Reliant on her stealth (item 3364 again) -Only one damaging spell (low burst)

22 Comments

Senpanda12 votes

Jinx is affected by stacking armor

Tristana is affected by stacking armor

Vayne Is not affected because %max HP true damage has no counter.

See the problem?

Bârd2 votes

Tristana has long auto range, a long range jump, a high attackspeed steroid, an AOE knockback, and can crush towers nearly instantly.

Jinx has long auto range, splash damage autos with 10% damage amp, a global execute, a long range slow, a multi target snare, and a high attack speed steroid.

Vayne has none of these things, but has % hp true damage and a stealth.

But sure, she is "OMG OP ZERO COUNTERPLAY CHAMP" because she has a unique strength.

Romans VI XXIII4 votes

your forgetting the very last part of his vayne statement. Which is very true.

has no counter.

This is a problem, all those other ADCs which u are comparing her to are easily tanked, and easily chased, no one out runs a vayne except an ulted Yi. You cant catch her, you cant run from her, you simply die.

Oh yes, lets focus her. Okay good suggestion, But this isn't counter play, this how you kill some one in any game, you focus your damage and kill some one as soon as possible, the enemy team is gunna be doing the same to your ADC, the problem is Vayne has a much higher chance of survival than any other adc, simple based on her and her alone, where as just about any-other adc needs some one to peel for her.

ADCs are meant to blow people up, they are also meant to be easily focused and killed, vayne counters being focused easily to well.

facemelter7101 votes

Well said

Subject 54 votes

Low range? Ult - Q

Bad early game? Not a chance.

Built armor? No problem! Built HP? Even better! Focus Vayne? Oh okay, not like you have a mid and top and a jungler eating your face off. Ignore vayne? Get 3 shot. Would thy like moe?

theragingnerd1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Subject 5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xLdV18ZT,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-09-14T00:11:12.432+0000)

Low range? Ult - Q

Bad early game? Not a chance.

Built armor? No problem! Built HP? Even better! Focus Vayne? Oh okay, not like you have a mid and top and a jungler eating your face off. Ignore vayne? Get 3 shot. Would thy like moe?

as a otaku i love moe and... loli

Bârd1 votes

A. Ult-Q does not extend her attack range in the slightest.

B. Her early game is bad. Having the potential to win lane if the enemy makes horrible mistakes does not change this.

C. Building armor and HP against Vayne still reduces the damage she deals with EVERYTHING BUT HER W. Obviously, you should build other things against her (is 250 gold for item 3364 too rich for your blood? How about buying item 3742 item 3800 to dive her? item 3143 item 3110 to delay her 3rd auto?)

D. This holds true for all carry champions. If you cannot figure out how to deal with teams having multiple damage sources, you lack ethos on the topic of game balance.

Romans VI XXIII4 votes

Weak early (Yes, she IS weak early. She will only win lane if she gets multiple ganks or her lane opponents fuck up royally)

By early game you mean until lvl 3, at which she then begins to easily out trade most other ADCs.

Not to mention the current build path on vayne counters most other ADCs, AS + AD + LS + % Current HP damage > AD + Crit And Cheaper with all small items so no matter the situation she can almost always get 1-3 of them on every back. It gives her both the sustain and the AS to quickly proc her passive, now tack on her Ult and she now has more AD than her opponent along with more MS, AS, LS, and alot of % HP damage.

Low self peel (She can knock one person away. In a teamfight versus people who are doing all they can to dive on her)

Dude if she has low self peel, then all the other ADCs have NO PEEL.

Any competent vayne can spam tumble and peel her self, not to mention her invisibility, which the enemy support is not always near enough to vayne to make those items useful, and a stun to boot if she is positioned right, which is pretty easy to do.

Low range (Makes diving her in teamfights easy)

Any ADC is easy dived in team fights her range has nothing to do with this. I hope you do now the amount of space 75 is, thats less than every single Melees Attack range, that is the distance a vayne would have to stand compared to a cait or ashe. Its so small its so laughable and almost negligible. Not to mention if she wants to attack she has tons of MS going in, and can easily peel for her self to get out. Yes her low range is a very very very very small hindrance in lane, but easily worked around.

Bârd1 votes

A. She CAN out trade post level 3. However, she has to use condemn, which leaves her vulnerable to ganks and engages for 20 seconds.

B. item 3153 is indeed cheaper than item 3031. As for Bork+Ult granting more AD than IE, no. Bork grants 25 AD, Final hour grants 30 AD rank 1, total of 55, slightly more than a BF sword. IE grants 80.

C.Kalista Jinx Ashe Varus Sivir all have either the mobility or CC to match or out-do vayne in terms of keeping themselves away from unwanted combatants.

D: If a support is not close enough to his team to help them during a fight, then that support has made a huge mistake. And even if the support isn't there, the jungler can pick up sweeper, or ANY LANER can pick up the pink ward trinket for the same price.

E: Urgot has 325 attack range. This is only 200 range shorter than Corki, Draven, Ezreal, Kalista, MF, a level 1 trist, twitch, and Vayne. 200 units is the same distance of Tahm Kench's attack range, who is melee. Do not underestimate the importance of attack ranges.

Romans VI XXIII2 votes

A. GOD FORBID SHE HAS TO PLACE WARDS!

B. Oh dear lord 25 AD less, with more AS, more MS, more LS, % HP damage and a cast able item that slows and deals more damage.

C. LMFAO 1 - 1.5 sec stun or snare does not save an ADC from anything, kalista is the only one who you are right about all the rest you are completely wrong on. As vayne has just as much CC as the other 4, on top of insane mobility.

D. I never said close enough to a teamfight, I said close enough to vayne, Unless your support is right on top of vayne when she ults niether a ward or trinket will help you as the range is not that great on them

Limitanei4 votes

Convenient that you compare Vayne to other ADCs that are good, but not nearly as broken.

What about Twitch ? Lucian ? Varus ? Fuck it. What about Corki ?

I'll wait. I want to see how you can compare "not broken" Vayne to any one of them.

OverpoweredSoap3 votes

{quoted}

Convenient that you compare Vayne to other ADCs that are good, but not nearly as broken.

What about Twitch ? Lucian ? Varus ? Fuck it. What about Corki ?

I'll wait. I want to see how you can compare "not broken" Vayne to any one of them.

MissFortune item 3070

Enosetc4 votes

vayne doesn't need her stealth in a meta where tanks and bruisers can peel for her regardless. true sight only stops her in a 1v1 situation assuming you can outduel her. most champions can't

Shroom Junkie3 votes

"low range" LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL no she has an average range only like 10 people have a higher range than her and not all are ADC's, in fact two are ADC's that have a shorter range than her normally. Jinx after she switches to Q has a longer range and Tristana after she levels up high enough for her passive to give her a bigger range.

Hayaishi21 votes

Everytime vayne is in the meta she dominates. She's awfully designed and even Riot recognizes she needs nerfs.

Bârd1 votes

Sources?

TheLastShadow451 votes

play Malphite with item 3110 and item 3143 when someone picks Vayne.

Bârd1 votes

Yup. Pretty much.

Vayne "pew pew pew" Malphite E Vayne "Pew... pew.... Vayne has been slain

J Eevo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The True Bard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xLdV18ZT,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-09-14T00:02:35.249+0000)

-Weak early (Yes, she IS weak early. She will only win lane if she gets multiple ganks or her lane opponents fuck up royally) -Low range (Makes diving her in teamfights easy) -Low self peel (She can knock one person away. In a teamfight versus people who are doing all they can to dive on her) -Reliant on her stealth (item 3364 again) -Only one damaging spell (low burst)

  • Her early is not weak it's on par with other adcs that aren't lane bullies, unless you count going equal as being "weak" because there's no snowballing

  • Low range - This one is actually so bullshit I can't stand it whenever I see it. 550 is AVERAGE, ADCs above that are described as having HIGH range and those below as having LOW range, She's in line with Twitch, MF, Draven, Kallista, Corki and early game Trist, and Varus is above her by 25 points which is negligible. You want to see low range, play Lucian or Sivir.

  • Low self peel - as opposed to who exactly? Most of the adcs have exactly one ability designed for peeling, some with less efficient ones, and some don't even have that. Some would also argue RQ is an additional form of self peel as well

  • Reliant on her stealth - when you're going for a clean sweep of the team sure, other times you can rely on teammates LIKE OTHER ADCS DO.

  • Only one damaging spell - and again this is the average, most adcs either have one, and one other abilty that does negligible damage but has other use, an execute ult, or a execute stack based ability, and Vayne's W fills that role pretty well.

She's not perfect mind you, but people obsess way too hard about her fabled "difficulty" and forget that it's the same thing that every adc struggles with, maybe except Kallista because fuck Kallista.

Wind Whistler1 votes

She's not broken, but she's a bit over the top. She needs to have her early game damage toned down a bit, it's too high considering she's supposed to be a late game carry.

facemelter7101 votes

Everyone loves to cry about vayne but. She is pretty fair. I'll do way better as sivr Quinn or twitch any day. That being said. Her % max hp dmg true could be toned down abit. Here is a tip for all you cry bbys. It will take her so many hits to kill you with her bolt proc dmg so buy armor. And kill her fast. Let an adc kite you, you are dead.

Romans VI XXIII1 votes

the problem is....this ADC WILL kite you....PERIOD

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Bârd

Very Serious Hurricane Petition
Gameplay118 comments
369
votes
A petition for Lollipoppy
Story, Art, & Sound50 comments
365
votes
Petition to replace Ryze with Annie in the "Battle Training" tutorial.
Gameplay88 comments
258
votes
Singed buff request
Gameplay47 comments
255
votes
PSA: if you have an off meta jungler
Gameplay358 comments
247
votes
Zz'rot portal now takes 5 hits to kill no matter what
Gameplay84 comments
244
votes