Warwick NEEDS reverts on his heavy nerfs.

Fadedpf·May 3, 2015·75 votes·4,178 views

was broken when it was released. yi, ww, etc abused it with insane true damage on hit. The current version is great and healthy but all because of the old one Warwick was nerfed hard. Directly and indirectly.

His ult cd and damage was nerfed HEAVILY which makes him horrible not being able to fight unless his ult is up.

His clears are weak with the 6 second W. Tanks have better clears than him with cinderhulk and just having aoe in general.

And to top it all off Devourer was made basically useless compaired to the amount of raw damage the other jungle enchantments do.

Plus another factor of him being gutted so hard is that the jungle was impossible during the preseason. Warwick and Fiddlesticks were the only ones that could stay alive. Its sad seeing as how Warwicks kit is designed for the jungle but he gets out classed and limited by all of the nerfs he had. Theres also the fact that he is Warwick, which has plenty of counterplay.

82 Comments

Silents429May 3, 201511 votes

Warwick is garbage currently and anyone trying to say otherwise or they try to shoe horn him somewhere into some working state are just blinding themselves, his Pre 6 ganks were non existent before, but with reliable post 6 ganks, and thanks to the nerf to the CDR on his ult now he can gank even less. And thanks to the damage cut on his ult not only does his ganks come up even less, they stopped being as reliable now.

The people who think "Oh he sustains well in the jungle, he is fine" can go fuck themselves, he clears slow as hell in comparison to TANK JUNGLERS right now. Any of the fighter junglers, Any jungler that survives clearing can clear faster then him right now.

So the hell what if he can stay healthy, his mana goes to shit early on when he uses his abilities sparingly at all, and by the time you finish clearing all the camps the enemy jungler has gone back and gotten his item and done his gank already.

So what do you do as Warwick? You farm until level 6, get off a not so reliable gank, then wait literally 2 minutes until you can go gank again. By the time you have a second gank ready the friggin mid game is about to start up and you had no jungle presence the entire time.

Wow he is just SOOOO good right now.

Mid game starts, and you think "Well I spent most of the time farming my item 3710 up maybe I can do something." You couldn't be more wrong if you pulled a door that said push. Warwicks ult still lost a lot of it's base damage along with the item getting nerfed, and the smite enhancement he used, Don't even add the fact he is a single target slow ass clearer in the jungle so it isn't like he was stacking them up as fast as a Yi would have, so he can't even rely on that item.

Go out and try ulting someone alone, Yeah you have to be against dumb asses that don't catch on quick that being by yourself against a Warwick is a good idea, Seriously try playing Warwick now during the tank meta of all times when everyone has a way of stopping your ult right now, it is friggin impossible. And having to make a champion work soley on the fact the enemy team has to be mentally challenged to do nothing when he ults is ridiculous.

And this drain tank shit people are talking about now? Now only did the W nerf stomp on his ability to help a team out better, but it made it far more difficult for him to just be that, a drain tank. The point of sustaining through a hell fire of damage that Warwick mains remember is that his W used to have reasonable cooldowns and durations, Now when your W ends your attack speed plummets to shit and you get killed because you can't attack fast enough to make use of the sustain you have.

I seriously friggin doubt anyone who actually plays Warwick on a somewhat regular basis actually thinks he is in a state right now where he doesn't need some changes, he is not fine and hasn't been even before he got his ass nerfed, the Feral Flare 2.0 should have been made to know Warwick was going to abuse it, it happened the first time around.

It isn't better for us when you find out that his rework was shelved and hasn't even made it past the brainstorming stage, along with Riot having no comments whether they want to give Warwick some help.

-Edited in spots for better clarity and grammar.

General SpaceyMay 3, 20153 votes

He has a 50.8% win rate. I dont think YOU are seeing clearly. P.S. i have mained ww since season 3.

FadedpfMay 3, 20156 votes

Winrate =/= decent spot. LB's winrate is lower apparently and she is disgustingly broken in all elos. Warwick is crap, tanks destroy him and hes back to being a free bag of gold that walks around until his ult is up.

Jus ClowninMay 3, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Winrate =/= decent spot. LB's winrate is lower apparently and she is disgustingly broken in all elos. Warwick is crap, tanks destroy him and hes back to being a free bag of gold that walks around until his ult is up.

I main warwick, I got to Plat IV on warwick pretty much exclusively on my main (BringYourOwnPuma), and i play it on this account as well.

You have NO clue how broken warwick is right now. And not weak. If you think he sucks you just don't know how to properly play him or probably build incorrectly (as evidenced by you even mentioning red smite).

As warwick - I can take a dragon solo at 3:30. By 20:00 i can duo baron with just my ADC. by 26:00 I can decimate any tank, and easily dual any carry. by 30:00 i can easily take on three people in most games due to the insane sustain warwick has.

You do realize with the recent BORK change, hes a powerhouse? No?.. Well thats probably why you arent ranked.

Add me, I'll show you what you're doing wrong.

Silents429May 3, 20154 votes

You have NO clue how broken warwick is right now. And not weak. If you think he sucks you just don't know how to properly play him or probably build incorrectly (as evidenced by you even mentioning red smite).

Really what is your magical build, runes/mastery setup none of us other mains have ever thought to conceive that makes him go from a pile of dirt to broken?

As warwick - I can take a dragon solo at 3:30. By 20:00 i can duo baron with just my ADC. by 26:00 I can decimate any tank, and easily dual any carry. by 30:00 i can easily take on three people in most games due to the insane sustain warwick has.

Oh so you rely on the enemy being retards? In your platinum rank I am shocked no one thought to ward the dragon early on to wait for the obvious as balls early dragon attempt that has been done to death all season. I mean honestly this isn't him being broken, or fixed or anything, this is relying on the enemy team sucking, yeah no wonder you felt like he was overpowered. I call bullshit on the 1v3 thing.

You do realize with the recent BORK change, hes a powerhouse? No?.. Well thats probably why you arent ranked.

Passive minimum damage cap increased to 10 from 3.

Ohohohohoho holy shit the tide of the season has changed, time for the world to end the blade of the ruined king just gained 7 whole damage everyone!

Jus ClowninMay 3, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Really what is your magical build, runes/mastery setup none of us other mains have ever thought to conceive that makes him go from a pile of dirt to broken?

Oh so you rely on the enemy being retards? In your platinum rank I am shocked no one thought to ward the dragon early on to wait for the obvious as balls early dragon attempt that has been done to death all season. I mean honestly this isn't him being broken, or fixed or anything, this is relying on the enemy team sucking, yeah no wonder you felt like he was overpowered. I call bullshit on the 1v3 thing.

Ohohohohoho holy shit the tide of the season has changed, time for the world to end the blade of the ruined king just gained 7 whole damage everyone!

My build is below in another post.

In 100 games I've been caught at the dragon maybe twice this season at level 3. Its alot less common than you would think. (This is in Silver, Gold and Plat).

Also - BORK damage wasn't what i was talking about. The "8% Damage based on enemies health" was changed so THAT effect now leeches life. In any given game my healing done is about 50% of the damage taken (and usually im #1 in damage taken by champions as i'm tanking). So yes, BORK is OP in the stance that wick can easily tank 3 people due to his massive sustain.

Silents429May 4, 20152 votes

Again, relying on the team being morons is not a reason for a champion to be considered, broken, overpowered, fine etc.

Taking an early dragon (albeit slowly) doesn't suddenly make his trashy jungling any better.

And out of 3 people none of them supposedly have ignite or any CC then yeah you probably can tank 3 people easily. Even still I don't believe you that on a level playing field you were 1v3ing people.

Jus ClowninMay 4, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Again, relying on the team being morons is not a reason for a champion to be considered, broken, overpowered, fine etc.

Taking an early dragon (albeit slowly) doesn't suddenly make his trashy jungling any better.

And out of 3 people none of them supposedly have ignite or any CC then yeah you probably can tank 3 people easily. Even still I don't believe you that on a level playing field you were 1v3ing people.

Well if they are morons 98% of the time then I guess its not "relying" on anything, since it seems to happen in every single game. You seem to be the type of warwick that doesnt secure objectives early and often, so i can understand why you think he's weak. As for 1v3ing its relatively easy. Of course ignite screws it up, but now a days one person has ignite in most games (APC) and rarely someone from bot lane. I also seem to score higher gold than most other people in my games so im not sure why you believe he clears jungle slower than anyone else, or has issues with farming in general. Again, i'm not trying to be confrontational here but it seems like you have a few things to learn about warwick. Now you can continue to try and bash me, and say im lying or wrong, or you could attempt to improve your play. Either way i'm not going to respond to another post of yours trying to denigrate me.

Heckin SupportMay 3, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Warwick is garbage currently and anyone trying to say otherwise or shoe horn him into some working state is just blinding themselves, his Pre 6 ganks were non existent before, and thanks to the nerf to the CDR on his ult now he can gank even less.

His ult had a big cut down on it's base damage making you rely further on your team to respond in a gank, or requiring you to build more damage then before.

The people who think "Oh he sustains well in the jungle, he is fine" can go fuck themselves, he clears slow as hell in comparison to TANK JUNGLERS right now. So the hell what if he can stay healthy, his mana goes to shit early on, and by the time you finish clearing all the camps the enemy jungler has gone back and gotten his item and done his gank already. What do you do as Warwick? You farm until level 6, get off a not so secure gank anymore, then wait literally 2 minutes until you can go gank again. By the time you have a second gank ready the friggin mid game is about to start up and you had no jungle presence the entire time. Wow he is just SOOOO good right now.

Mid game starts, and you think "Well I spent most of the time farming my up maybe I can do something." You couldn't be more wrong if you pulled a door that said push. Warwicks ult still lost a lot of it's base damage along with the item getting nerfed with him as well giving him even less. Don't even add the fact he is a single target slow ass clearer in the jungle so it isn't like he was stacking them up as fast as a Yi would have.

Go out and try ulting someone alone, Yeah you have to be against dumb asses that don't catch on quick that being by yourself against a Warwick is a good idea, Seriously try playing Warwick now during the tank meta of all times when everyone has a way of stopping your ult right now, it is friggin impossible. And this drain tank shit people are talking about now? Now only did the W nerf stomp on his ability to help a team out better, but it made it far more difficult for him to just be that, a drain tank. The point of sustaining through a hell fire of damage that Warwick mains remember is that his W used to have reasonable cooldowns and durations, thanks to those being crushed the second the damage thing ends your attack speed goes to shit and you can't sustain anymore and get killed off.

I seriously friggin doubt anyone who actually plays Warwick on a somewhat regular basis actually thinks he is in a state right now where he doesn't need some changes, he is not fine and hasn't been even before he got his ass nerfed. It isn't better for us when you find out that his rework was shelved and hasn't made it past the brainstorming stage.

This^ people seem so blind when a champion is actually really struggling. They just say "oh you're just not playing them right" when in reality they just aren't good anymore. Warwick and other champions (elise, syndra, etc.) are in a bad state and people refuse to believe it because when they were strong they were strong and dont want to go back to that.

LarasoMay 3, 20151 votes

I agree with everything you said except for the mana part. Warwick doesn't have mana problems in the jungle, just the passive mana regen on hunters machete is enough to counteract most of his mana cost.

Silents429May 3, 20151 votes

He does have mana problems without a constant blue supply. Whether it is high costing abilities or his mana pool being so small it's better described as a puddle.

Jus ClowninMay 3, 20152 votes

{quoted}

He does have mana problems without a constant blue supply. Whether it is high costing abilities or his mana pool being so small it's better described as a puddle.

I can run without blue all game and never have a problem.. Not sure what you're doing wrong but just the regain from the jungle item seems to be enough for me.

Silents429May 4, 20152 votes

Apparently you are the lord savior jesus christ at warwick, so the rest of us majority will go over here and you can go over their in a warwick players wet dream.

Because if the only thing you are going to contribute to this is "nuh uh" to everyone else then you are useless.

Jus ClowninMay 4, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Apparently you are the lord savior jesus christ at warwick, so the rest of us majority will go over here and you can go over their in a warwick players wet dream.

Because if the only thing you are going to contribute to this is "nuh uh" to everyone else then you are useless.

No, I never said that. I can only speak from personal experience and I never have mana issues with warwick with or without blue buff. Of course i expect you to throw insults around when i dont agree that wick needs a buff. People are playing and succeeding with him in high elo, his win rate is above 50% on average. if you are having trouble with it, its not the champion.

Silents429May 4, 20153 votes

Warwick has mana issues.

"Nuh uh"

Warwick is terrible at jungling.

"Nuh uh"

Warwick is weak.

"Nuh uh"

See the gist of your responses? You aren't helpful the slightest other then stroking your own ego off about how well your games go, which from what I gather is because you go against brainless monkeys who don't ward or know anything about positioning or focus. While the rest of us who actually seem to understand him better don't share these experiences at all.

Go into an actual game with the rest of us, you ult anyone out of position (assuming they even get out of position) you get your ass hauled off the person almost instantly and their goes your ult. And their goes your high presence in the fight. You can sustain all you want but they just have to kill your team and focus you down with no problems.

You can't rely on early game tankiness because then your damage is missing and you get ignored, if you ignore tankiess to get some early damage you are squishy and get picked off before your sustain means jackshit.

Warwick is a terrible jungler, he excels at nothing and does worse then a jack of all trades jungler does. He cannot gank before 6, post 6 he can get off 1 not so secure gank before mid lane starts to get rolling, and now he was completely useless during the laning phase, getting that early dragon only makes you level up slower behind the rest of the players further delaying you. And that is assuming you go against morons who don't ward or think "Gee warwick can take dragon pre 6 I should watch it."

I don't even have to go into all the shit surrounding winrates, most people are aware on the arguments back and forth between why it means nothing, and why it might mean something sometimes.

Finally the personal experience of 1 player doesn't invalidate the experience of many more. The majority know warwick is in a terrible state and needs to get fixed.

Jus ClowninMay 4, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Warwick has mana issues.

"Nuh uh"

Warwick is terrible at jungling.

"Nuh uh"

Warwick is weak.

"Nuh uh"

See the gist of your responses? You aren't helpful the slightest other then stroking your own ego off about how well your games go, which from what I gather is because you go against brainless monkeys who don't ward or know anything about positioning or focus. While the rest of us who actually seem to understand him better don't share these experiences at all.

Go into an actual game with the rest of us, you ult anyone out of position (assuming they even get out of position) you get your ass hauled off the person almost instantly and their goes your ult. And their goes your high presence in the fight. You can sustain all you want but they just have to kill your team and focus you down with no problems.

You can't rely on early game tankiness because then your damage is missing and you get ignored, if you ignore tankiess to get some early damage you are squishy and get picked off before your sustain means jackshit.

Warwick is a terrible jungler, he excels at nothing and does worse then a jack of all trades jungler does. He cannot gank before 6, post 6 he can get off 1 not so secure gank before mid lane starts to get rolling, and now he was completely useless during the laning phase, getting that early dragon only makes you level up slower behind the rest of the players further delaying you. And that is assuming you go against morons who don't ward or think "Gee warwick can take dragon pre 6 I should watch it."

I don't even have to go into all the shit surrounding winrates, most people are aware on the arguments back and forth between why it means nothing, and why it might mean something sometimes.

Finally the personal experience of 1 player doesn't invalidate the experience of many more. The majority know warwick is in a terrible state and needs to get fixed.

I have posted elsewhere in this thread with useful information on how to not fail with warwick in the jungle. If you choose to ignore it, thats on you. And getting the early dragon delays you no more than the enemy jungle ganking early which warwick cant do anyways.

blueberrypancakeMay 4, 20151 votes

Jungle WW maybe garbage but Magewick is actuallly good right now with all the tanks

Silents429May 4, 20151 votes

I honestly couldn't care any less about Magewick.

Jus ClowninMay 4, 20151 votes

Not sure why you're so reliant on W to keep aspd up.. My ASPD is like 2.3 without W by end game.. I moreso use it for my allies than myself. lol

FantasySniperMay 3, 20155 votes

One thing many people don't seem to understand is that Warwick was strong long before Devourer's came out. The new Devourer+Skirmisher is basically a cheaper FF that gives him free true damage - so you can't blame it on FF's success over WW's.

Warwick right now is still completely viable. He farms out the jungle and catches people out to start teamfights, and sustain-tanks his way through to the end.

The Devourer and BotRK build changes were also indirect buffs to him this patch.

FadedpfMay 3, 20158 votes

Of course he was viable before devourer and skirm. It was the preseason jungle with the skirmishers that made him broken, He got gutted because of it. Also win rates arent in every single elo. Warwick is good in low elo. AKA bronze and low silver. Which is where those rates come from. item 1043 buff means NOTHING are you kidding me? Get out before you ridicule everything I say when these are the FACTS.

AxotlMay 3, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Of course he was viable before devourer and skirm. It was the preseason jungle with the skirmishers that made him broken, He got gutted because of it. Also win rates arent in every single elo. Warwick is good in low elo. AKA bronze and low silver. Which is where those rates come from. buff means NOTHING are you kidding me? Get out before you ridicule everything I say when these are the FACTS.

Actually champion.gg win rates are from platinum+

FantasySniperMay 3, 20153 votes

The new jungle hit everyone hard. The main difference is that those who were already powerful junglers were faring better than everyone else because the requirements were stepped up a notch.

Champion.gg uses Plat+ games for its statistics. He's doing better than fine.

WW can actually pick up what's virtually another 10 AD until he finishes his Devourer's. It's still better to skip the Sabre because the smite effect is practically worthless until he can start truly ganking.

Aurora DonnMay 3, 20154 votes

I feel this may have some merit. Haven't played WW much lately but I've wanted to, and It did seem he got nerfed pretty hard. But he didn't seem completely useless either... Just a weaker version of the simple jungle wolf we all know and some of us love. That being said, There is basically no reason(that I can see, with his ult being mostly just suppression cc) to pick him over other more prevalent junglers that have taken over the meta as of late. But again, I'm just speculating because I haven't personally played him lately much. Warwick

arcinexMay 3, 20154 votes

Warwick is useless now.

khorneyMay 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Warwick is useless now.

Agreed . ww isn't a threat . he is made to ult and that's it

TotalisMay 3, 20154 votes

As someone who hates warwick and his stupid goddamn ult, Im very content with never seeing him. Now if only we could see the same thing done to tryndamere and shaco

Silents429May 3, 20152 votes

I do enjoy when people say fuck off to any champion they don't like.

RavenKouhaiMay 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I do enjoy when people say fuck off to any champion they don't like.

you gotta admit that getting oneshotted by warwick's smite+ult a few months ago was toxic as shit tho.

Silents429May 4, 20151 votes

That doesn't even relate to either comments. It was toxic, but wishing a champion stays in a shitty state because you hate them is just stupid. Hence my original comment.

TransgressorMay 3, 20154 votes

Warwick NEEDS A FULL RELAUNCH.

Now that we've cleared thing sup lets move on to something better to discuss.

MrSexyHoboMay 3, 20153 votes

if your having problems with ww then its prob your build that needs work

VenowolfMay 3, 20151 votes

item 3091 item 3153 item 3718 item 3065 item 3110 item 3111

That is my standard build, just change a little depending of the game...

Jus ClowninMay 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

That is my standard build, just change a little depending of the game...

Wrong.

Blue smite (Devourer), --> Boots of Swiftness-->BORK--> Armor item (depends on whos fed on enemy team, either SV or Randuins)-->Armor item (whichever one of those you didnt buy first)-->Wits end. If the game lasts more than 40 mins, sell boots and buy Zephyr.

Runes: ASPD/Armor per lev/Mres per lev (You dont come out of the jungle till 6.) Masteries: Standard jungle masteries

If your top, start Gromp. Clear gromp-->blue-->wolves-->Dragon then walk back up and clear the whole jungle (gromp wil ave respawned by the time you finish dragon). Thisll put you at level 5 with 1300 gold on your first back (And ahead of the enemy jungler despite you soloing dragon).

If your bot, start krug-->Red-->Wraiths-->Dragon. B, buy upgraded jungle item, clear as normal from top to bottom.

Both starts: you'll get 6 with about 1-1:30 to spare for the second dragon, usually you can sneak this second dragon in before the enemy support has a sight stone. Do it.

By 20:00 you should have upgraded devourer, boots of swiftness and BORK. If your ADC is fed, duo baron when it spawns.

By 26:00 you should have your first armor item.

By 32:00 you should have the second

By 36:00 you should have all 6 items.

By 40:00 (if it lasts this long), zephyr. Get elixir of wrath. With this item setup if everyone focuses you.. YOU WANT TO HIT THE ENEMY TANK. NEW BORK = huge drains when you're on someone with alot of HP. You will out sustain almost any teams damage if you are hitting the tank provided you BORK and Q on cooldown. Your team will mop up the carries, you will -decimate- the tank (And peel incidentally)

The key to warwick (and really any successfull jungler) IS OBJECTIVE CONTROL!

Edit: Why blue smite/Boots of Swiftness? Enemies will misjudge your movement speed and try to kite/flee. They cant. Its literally impossible with this setup and blood scent. (Unless its like hecarim or something. lol)

Blue smite also enables you to prevent enemies from escaping after a gank (especially early) by smiting them. They may flash away but they will be far to slow to get anywhere.

The Bíg TicketMay 4, 20151 votes

You shouldnt rush Bork over Wits End. The item is made for Warwick. Also you can easily start at the enemy buff.

Jus ClowninMay 4, 20151 votes

Always rush bork over wits end. By 20 minutes BORKs passive will give more than wits end and provide much more sustain. I dont start at the enemy buff because i take level 3 dragon. Also, getting bork first allows you to duo baron. You cant do that with wits end at 20 mins.

VenowolfMay 3, 20152 votes

Still waiting the ww rework...

lB2kGRlc8yMay 3, 20152 votes

From what I've seen, they only revert when its to nerf a champion, like blitz

It Hertz When IPMay 3, 20152 votes

I'm not a big fan of the fact that WW has to be built almost off-tank now in order to be relevant, as opposed to when I first picked him up where he was borderline glass cannon.

The Bíg TicketMay 3, 20152 votes

Nah, let's rever the Sion shield nerfs first before we touch Warwick, Sion clearly became unplayable after that nerf.

TeemoLikeCookiesMay 3, 20154 votes

Said no one ever

551202May 4, 20152 votes

Warwick dont need a revert for this failed kit... all Warwick need right now is a relaunch ( Sion scale). It's been years since Riot keep telling us he is work in progress... It's like we will **never **see this champion upgraded, i think its because of his price RP/IP too low so he dont worth a upgrade... yea that must be that. Why Riot?

Warwick should be on the top of the rework list for 2015... Because i dont see who would pick Warwick unless he is trolling. With no cc until lvl 6 (110 secs cd on this ult) all he can do is poke the enemy with his Q (if he can reach them). In teamfight, useless if his ult is on cd. If he was good in 2009-2010, he is the worst jungle now imo, every champ are getting upgraded but him...

Rinky DinkyMay 4, 20151 votes

Why do you people act like the price of a champion has ANYTHING to do with reworks/viability/ etc.

This is proven wrong time and time again.

Bears Dont CareMay 4, 20152 votes

WW is a bad jubgler. Why? He clears slowly, so he cannot keep up in farm to the enemy jungler, making him weaker.

He cannot gank pre 6. Or he can but it is extremely weak since he has no cc besides his ult.

His ult is also a channel that suppresses him and so it can be interrupted.

StaconaMay 3, 20151 votes

Warwick is strong now, especially with cinderhulk

MaikalMay 3, 20152 votes

Who isn't strong with cinderhulk? That item is broken. Which is why it's damage is basically halved vs. champions on the PBE right now. Cinderhulk + challenging smite + gromp buff + thornmail = 1 v 1 any AD duellists.

You can't say a champion is balanced because they have to get a broken item lol..