Only 1 person has to buy that new ''mobile'' sweeping's lens and it makes 1/3 of ap Shaco's damage completely useless.
Not to mention that boxes get 1 shot by any ability/aoe (especially with all those new items/masteries with AOE dmg on them)
Something needs to be done.... almost every Shaco post get ignored...
Marthian3 votesBecause his box causes so much interesting gameplay (PS like teemo shrooms and other invisible traps, it doesn't. It's irritating to play against and has very poor counterplay. Shaco needs a complete rework anyways, his kit has problems.)
Shac Norris2 votesShaco's boxes are limited to ~6 with 40% cdr
They dont deal as much dmg as Teemo's shrooms, arnt AOE, and any tank takes no damage at all from them.
Ah but of course, you main only squishy champions, of course you would want a Shaco rework!
Marthian2 votesInstead, you get feared from basically no where, take a lot of damage if it's AP shaco, and aoe doesn't mean nothing in the jungle/against one person.
And what does maining squishy characters have to do with it? He's also irritating as tanky characters because in addition to the fear, he can blink/stealth away from a bad situation or into a gank.
Clown Apocalypse1 votesYou jump into 6 teemo shrooms you only feel the effects of one. Step into the middle of 6 shaco boxes when he's been stacking ap and tell me what your health looks like afterwards. I play a lot of ap shaco btw even though I'm bronze. 170k mastery. My boxes hurt. I play him as support and one box in the bush early game takes half of blitzcranks health depending on where he steps into it from. If anything they need to buff his mana and lower the cost on his q. A mana item is a must on ap shaco pretty much in the first two items when I play him.
Shac Norris1 votesA box at early levels take 60-100 hp depending on how long it takes you to move out of it's range.
the ''half hp'' is only if he's dumb enough to try and 1v1 it at early levels.
Any support who's half decent and is playing against ap Shaco will buy a pink ward and put it anywhere at all to prevent Shaco from outplaying anything at all.
There's no need for the 10 seconds ''wack-a-Shaco'' trinket, it's just dumb.
Clown Apocalypse1 votesThe counter to shaco is vision and tanks like it always has been. Ap shaco does very bad against tanks or champs with a lot of sustain. With pink wards being the only wards you can buy now, they made the counterplay to shaco kind of mandatory. I'd say he took a hit this patch more than anything. I was playing him a lot before the patch as AP, and have been playing him since the patch too. 170k mastery. Even Pink Ward a diamond AP shaco player has been posting in the forums about how he took a severe nerfing with mana pots + flasks gone and the new changes to vision.
Shac Norris1 votesThe fact that they reduced the cost of pink wards don't help at all.
But pink wards don't freaking disable half of ur dmg, they just make your traps visible, while that new trinket, for 10 freaking seconds, make you useless and any defense that you've set up against potential ganks become useless as well
Clown Apocalypse1 votesI get what you're saying...usually I just take the pink ward out. Many have tried that and it really just becomes an objective they have to defend on top of positioning properly to farm, plus a jungle gank and that pink wards gone in a matter of seconds regardless of if we get a kill or not, he's just gotta show his face and they are going to leave that ward. You can simply let the lane push to your turret and usually that renders the pink ineffective because they usually put it in the bush by their turret to make it hard to get to. In my experience people aren't too fond of buying pink's over and over again early game anyways, and if they do it slows down their SS. 5 auto's from your adc isn't hard to get on a pink ward that they have to position close enough to be effective. I've seen lots of people try to counterplay it, but it's the rare occasion that counterplay lasts all or even most of a game. You're right about the blitz trying to 1 vs 1 the box...lol, but with the way minions block you sometimes people get caught just right too. I try to put my boxes in random spots so if they pink one of the bushes, then I just move my boxes over by the river. Either way it all amounts to people burning extra gold to itemize against a support. I'm okay with that. And yes, I totally agree with you, the new item is total bs. They also need to update his boxes so they prioritize champions that are in range even if a minion sets it off.
Shac Norris1 votesWhen you're playing ap Shaco against Riven top lane and she buys a pink ward, you're pretty much fucked
And yeah totally agree with what you said about boxes prioritizing champs
Clown Apocalypse1 votesoh hell yeah that goes without saying.. riven is already a tough matchup you have to play perfectly without the pink ward involved. Everyone has their counters. I'm still bronze though what works here might not net the same results for me in higher elo's but so far even playing against as high as golds....most people don't know how to play against it, Esoecially once I start roaming. I learned a lot watching Pink Wards streams. Even watch lots of shaclone vids just to see how they play certain matchups
Shac Norris1 votesIn fact, the only reason ap Shaco can get kills in lane is if the enemy laner doesn't know how to play against him, like that 1 i got yesterday where she would just mindlessly jump in the middle of my boxes and die..
SaltyKracka2 votesNobody cares about AP Shaco.
Shac Norris1 votesYou're wrong
ChickenWrap1 votesIt's because Riot doesn't care about Shaco ayers. He has plenty of bugs that have been in his kit for so long. Don't expect them to givw him any love within the next 50 years, it just won't happen, and it sucks, but that's the way things seem to be for us. Half the time, boxes don't even go off during gank. They buffed champion base moves perds but not Box arm time.
Tsk tsk.
Also, pls stop woth all the posts.
Primaquarius1 votesThey've been near-useless for a while since the Fear debuff pushes targets out of the damage range very quickly
Shac Norris1 votesThe old fear was a gamble, it was a matter of luck whether or not your target stayed or ran away from your boxes...
Creeamy Sheev1 votesThat feeling when randomly dropped box saves yours or your teammate's life is priceless though. 
Shac Norris1 votesAlmost never happens now since every tank is carrying the new sweeping len's,
Because pinks arnt enough
runedara1 votesI don't think ap shaco is good so yah.
Shac Norris2 votesive seen you around, instead of saying shit like that, why dont you try it and tell for yourself?
insaiyanbacca1 votestbh seems like riot is trying to enforce one way to play any champion :/
Shac Norris1 votesWell they already did it with AP Irelia and a few others.
insaiyanbacca1 votesyup :/
ZachGrady4ever1 votesPart of being a good shaco is knowing how to strategically place your boxes is places that no one would expect or to set up future escape routes. Sweeper has beed around forever, a small buff to it isn't gonna ruin all of his boxes.
BakedLotion1 votesPart of being a good shaco is knowing how to strategically place your boxes is places that no one would expect or to set up future escape routes. Sweeper has beed around forever, a small buff to it isn't gonna ruin all of his boxes.
Yes it is. It's mobile and DISABLES traps. So if they activate it while fighting shaco, they will never get hit or feared by it. The sweep range is bigger than the activation range. Yes, even in brush they cant see it works
Old sweeper was stationary and the vision you got from the upgrade doesnt disable, just reveals
Shac Norris1 votesYou heard what BakedLotion said.
The trinket lasts for 10 seconds, you ain't gon' have no boxes when he's done sweeping the shit out of them
Ralanr1 votesBesides being wards? Unlimited (or have a higher cap then wards) wards. That right there is BS.
Shac Norris1 votesWell of course, you never played Shaco, let alone ap Shaco.
So of course you wouldn't know anything about how mana hungry he is and how he gets stomped in 3/4 of his matchups.
You can't afford to use boxes as wards, especially not in the early game. But what am i doing trying to reason with some dude with 130 wins... You probably don't even know half of the champions's names yet
Ralanr2 votesWow. Thank you for insulting me based on the number of wins I have. That says a lot about you.
Yes I can say I have not played Shaco often and the removal of mana pots probably makes his unlimited warding potential a lot weaker. Thanks for insulting my win numbers though, that'll teach me to talk about champion balance.
I sure have learned my lesson. Go on and teach others through your wisdom of win count means everything.
[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]
Shac Norris1 votesLow win count can mean 2 things, 1: you're really unexperienced in the game 2: you're a smurf.
You're calling my thread BS, probably without having ever even played Shaco, you probably saw his abilities once and were like ''lol thats op af'' and then proceeded to thrash my thread.
Even Pink Ward, a D1 AP Shaco main with 720k mastery points on Shaco complains about these changes made to the trinkets.
So yeah. Because 15s cd and 60s duration and half the vision range of a trinket makes it a really good and reliable source of ward, even while considering Shaco's weak early game where he has to use his boxes to CS since he's so squishy and get roflstomped by every other laner before lv 6 and his first item, and not to mention his crazy mana costs if he wants to use his Q even once.
Yeah, you don't know anything about ap Shaco.
Ralanr1 votesI will say that yes, in comparison to a lot of people I am unexperienced in the game. I don't play ranked, and I only started pvp after hitting 30 because all my friends just wanted to play bots.
Now you definitely know your champion more than I do (I only played him once in one for all and I have not taken into account the overall speed of the game at the moment) so you're in the right to dismiss my claim. But was attacking my overall experience really the best way to exert your higher stance on the subject? I'm opened to being reasoned with on champion abilities and their overall balance, I'd rather ask why they have something before I say whether I think they need it or not.
Sorry if you consider me a troll or something similar. I have no intention of trolling people, unless they want to make my day a living hell.
Shac Norris1 votesHmm yeah i'll admit that it wasn't really intelligent of me, you calling this thread BS made me go on the defensive and i apology for that. However, i still insist that you're wrong about Shaco and that there needs to be a change.
Ralanr1 votesHappens to the best of us man.
Shac Norris1 votesThis one is better, except for a few things that were discussed in the comments.
EcchiOtakuTM1 votesIDK still looks like he'll be useless in an end game teamfight/pick plays, boxes even less useful, and slapping on max HP damage to an assassin isn't fun at all. Only thing outta it I somewhat like is the maniac attack but it hurts shaco further in a teamfight.
Shac Norris1 votesAs i said, those few things were discussed in the comment section of that post
EcchiOtakuTM1 votesOh lol mb I didn't read the comments now that I think about it >_n*[slayer-jinx-wink]*
Shac Norris1 votesWell most of the comments are really long to read, so if you really want to go through them, i wish you luck and patience :P
EcchiOtakuTM1 votes[{quoted}](name=Shac Norris,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xBdXrhMk,comment-id=000900000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-20T01:56:31.924+0000)
Well most of the comments are really long to read, so if you really want to go through them, i wish you luck and patience :P
Well ima work on it as soon as im done this college work cause I really do want to improve my shaco rework idea a bit more.