New Taliyah (W)

EtyrnaI·Jul 13, 2016·22 votes·2,256 views

Riot. No. Stop this. Now. Just hot fix it back, please.

29 Comments

AthinaJul 13, 20166 votes

As a Taliyah main, after 2 games I almost don't want to play her anymore. Her W used to be fast and reliable, now it's slow and frustrating. Absolutely nothing was wrong with her kit.

gr8artistJul 13, 20165 votes

The old method was counter-intuitive and awkward. League is far too fast-paced and twitchy to not use the faster, easier "vector" casting. They should have allowed both for a while, or let people toggle which method to use in the options screen.

EtyrnaIJul 13, 201611 votes

{quoted}

The old method was counter-intuitive and awkward. League is far too fast-paced and twitchy to not use the faster, easier "vector" casting. They should have allowed both for a while, or let people toggle which method to use in the options screen.

I can live with a toggle option.

JynweithekJul 13, 20166 votes

But it's neither faster nor easier. The activation doesn't start until you release W whereas before, it started on key press down. This means that aside from opponents being able to move out the zone when they see it, you also have to predict where they will be when you release W. It puts time pressure on the Taliyah player to quickly input a direction after pressing W. Playing Taliyah now feels a lot more straining and stressful because if you don't release W immediately after pressing you will miss it and release it almost immediately will most likely screw up the direction. Another point is that movement commands can now cancel the spell while W is pressed, meaning it is no longer possible to W while attempting to dodge skillshots. The point of these changes was to make her kit more fluid but instead the inputs(movement and W) interrupt each other. A toggle option would be fine by me, but that would be unprecedented and I'm not sure Riot would go to such lengths for a single champion. Would be pretty awesome if they did though.

Sire HippingtonJul 13, 20163 votes

That not an issue on vector cast but how it's implemented. It should be easily possible to start the cast on button press and then give the direction with the release, so the same as befor just with press and release rather than press 1 and press 2. Just that for some reason riot decided to make it diffrently, just how they for no apparent reason decided to change how it works if cast out of range.

AthinaJul 13, 20163 votes

This is how I thought they would have implemented it, which is why I wasn't too outspoken against it. It makes sense that an ability with a delay needs to cast as soon as possible for best results, which is why it had the original casting paradigm in the first place. Now it's just slower along with having the clunkiness that comes with vector casting.

JynweithekJul 14, 20161 votes

That would probably be alright with me but after having looked at some reactions this might screw some people over, specifically those who like the vector cast or are used to playing viktor/rumble. It will feel very different from the vector cast they have and that kind of goes against the reason they changed it to vector cast: to have a casting paradigm that was already existing in the game(which is a stupid reason imo). The only thing I can think of that could make the most people happy, would be smart/quick-cast acting as a way to choose between 2 casting methods. Maybe even use the "quick cast with indicator" as another option(vector casting feels a lot like using this option on other skill shots in the game).

Personally, and I know this will never happen, I'd rather they rolled back all the changes and maybe gave her a few damage nerfs and nerfs to her laning phase/waveclear. The lock-out and the fact you had to telegraph your intent with E was a way to gate her massive power but after they removed it, she is getting nerf after nerf to compensate because she is now almost a burst-mage and has to be balanced accordingly. Her kit no longer requires you to maneuver your opponent into a bad spot or giving them an impossible choice(stay and get hit by the second E activation or move and get hit by W etc.), and now only requires you to land the W because then everything else will hit, and because it is now "easier", the payoff has to be significantly lower. It makes her playstyle a lot simpler and straight-forward because as her creator said: "Optional power is mandatory".

Sire HippingtonJul 14, 20161 votes

this might screw some people over, specifically those who like the vector cast or are used to playing viktor/rumble. It will feel very different from the vector cast they have and that kind of goes against the reason they changed it to vector cast:

I am one of those that are used to vectorcasting from vic/rumble, and i tried to instintively vectorcast talias W all the time after her release. The thing about the casting paradigm that's important for the feel is the number of inputs: press button-drag-release button(or click-dragg-realease for normal cast). The fact that it's only cast post release is pure neccesity on vic and rumble as their skills can't work without direction and their skills resolve instantly, but for thalia it is different, hers has a delay and can work without direction input and thus feels kinda clunky that way. If it would start a the button press, it wouldn't screw people that are used to vector casteing over, it would allow them to use their muscle memory to cast it as the input stays the same as other vectorcasting.

Also, the nerfs are not only because of the W change. If played well, she was/is simply way to powerfull. She already became a staple in proplay befor the changes and with the proplayers not haveing that much experience on her.

JynweithekJul 14, 20161 votes

I agree with you for the most part. Also, Vik/rumble skills are also not nearly as dependent on kiting and chaining the skills together, meaning it doesn't have the risk of being cancelled by their other skills. Taliyah now MUST chain her W into other skills, and I can't tell how many times I've cancelled her W with E/Q/movement in a tense situation after these changes. I agree that she was too strong and i'd prefer it if she was in a more balanced state. I'd rather perform well on a balanced champ than stomp every game on an OP champ. However, play pattern, casting method and damage/cooldowns are 3 separate things. I can get behind adjusting her numbers if she's out of line(they could start by reverting the pre-emptive buffs she recieved early), but basically changing her identity and feel shouldn't go through without serious consultation with her most loyal playerbase.

Vandal SavageJul 13, 20164 votes

Ah whoops, I already made my own thread. Guess I should've gone down a little more.

You're completely right. The old way was superior. The new mechanism is terrible and Riot should feel ashamed.

PinkPonyKissJul 13, 20164 votes

xD did the same thing.... anyway riot pls #MakeTaliyahGreatAgain

SubRosa1Jul 13, 20164 votes

All of you guys, asking to make hotfix bug, Im so much with you. I played LOL for 4 years and its first time I forced to write smth on forum. Cse Im absolutely love Taliyah and the way she plays, I have like 150-200 games with her, but now I cant play her at all.

I feel its totally unfair, that NO SINGLE Taliyah main said change to vector cast was good. But RIOT was listening to people who barely try her and whine she is hard and cringy. JUST UNFAIR #MakeTaliyahGreatAgain

Upvote head post pls, make RIOT hear us

inplaneJul 13, 20164 votes

Her W is horrible now. I mained her ever since her release and got level 7 mastery on her 2 weeks ago. I can't play her anymore due to the Vector Casting change. It's horrible and clunky.

Itadaki SeiekiJul 13, 20163 votes

I've tried it; It's actually much easier to cast her W now.

Gameplay forums will complain about anything it seems.

Pineapple FairyJul 13, 20168 votes

its only easier for some people, I am approaching 150 games on her and vastly prefered the old style of W

Vandal SavageJul 13, 20166 votes

I obviously didn't play her as much as you, but she's tied for my 4th most-played ranked champ this season, and I also vastly preferred the old W. The new W is just completely inferior.

PinkPonyKissJul 13, 20163 votes

PLS RIOT rly its horrible for old taliyah players now!.. pls #MakeTaliyahGreatAgain !! (toggle is fine with me! xD)

DeathleageJul 13, 20162 votes

THe new W is so bad pls put it back to normal or at least let us have the option to choose wich way we want it pls its tilting me a lot in my pass games as im used to the old w which is much simplier and easier

CalabokJul 13, 20162 votes

Practice makes perfect

DunlopJul 14, 20162 votes

Never touching Taliyah again i can't play her anymore she used to be really fun too, now she just feels clunky and slow.

Blue Moon WolfJul 13, 20161 votes

Haven't had a chance to try it since the change, is it that bad?

AstôlfoJul 13, 20162 votes

It's absolutely disgustingly bad. Also now vertical knockups are impossible, as is having the time to decide the direction until it actually happens which let you freely change your mind.

Blue Moon WolfJul 13, 20162 votes

Damn. If that's the case, I'd rather have the old W. If the trade off for having an easier to understand W and being able to cast other spells during the W is no vertical knockups and no changing direction (plus the upcoming "compensation" nerf), I'd rather have the old one. At the very least it was more unique before.

AstôlfoJul 13, 20162 votes

Like the whole point is players are supposed to learn how to play with a restriction and a lot more versatility and options both of which are new to League. But noooo, the people who don't know anything about Taliyah didn't like it, so Riot decided it was a good reason to change it. Because you know, having to actually learn is asking too much.

EtyrnaIJul 13, 20161 votes

Avoided playing Taliyah since this new patch hit.

DunlopJul 14, 20161 votes

Plz put the old w back this is really hard and her combo feels slow and clunky or make it a toggle pleeeeeeaaase <3

DunlopJul 14, 20161 votes

Bjerg also said some bad things about the new Taliyah w on twitter and stream

BellamortaJul 14, 20161 votes

gj riot .... i was really enjoying every single game as Taliyah but now i can't even play her thanks to the extremely frustrating "vector" cast ... doing her combo is now next to impossible for me especially in teamfights ... thanks again riot -_-