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[Patch 6.14] Taliyah Change : : Official Seismic Shove (W) Change Request Petition

EtyrnaI··321 votes·14,521 views

Champion : Taliyah

Discussion : Seismic Shove (W) Change in Patch 6.14

Asking For : A Hot Fix of Taliyah's Seismic Shove (W) to be reverted back to it's original (Release Date) casting and to cease the current change to Vector Casting.

Your Help : Please up vote this Thread for recognition that we would like the old Seismic Shove to return.

As someone that has now over 150+ Taliyah Games and 111 in Ranked Dynamic Queue (See OP.GG) and an original MobaFire Guide , I feel the need to ask Riot to simply hot fix Taliyah's Seismic Shove back to it's original cast design. Taliyah has a very sharp learning curve and with this change, I find you've made it much more difficult to play her. It has hurt more than help.

I was very outspoken, as well as many other players about the (W) change before this patch went live. I read the Red Post from Riot about how the change would make her more efficient and about how the "Lockout" from casting Seismic Shove was not a good mechanic. However, I simply disagree. I understand this may be from being so used to the old (W) however, I also don't like that were talking about nerfing her just based on this (W) change. Who in their right mind as a Taliyah Main would vote for this W change knowing that Nerfs are coming in with it as well? I've tried the casting out and I feel locked out just based on the way it is cast now.

This new Seismic Shove cast is clunky. Please revert back to Taliyah's original cast on Seismic Shove. Please up vote this thread for recognition. Thank you.

Currently Streaming Taliyah 6.14 Changes

298 Comments

Athina84 votes

Every Taliyah main before 6.14 will tell you that the change in casting paradigm is the worst thing they could have done. Disregarding the obvious clunkiness of vector casting, the fact that the ability waits until you've chosen a direction to cast literally costs you games. ZenonTheStoic was correct when he made the champion and he shouldn't have given in to the pressure of those who don't even play her.

DeathBot66614 votes

I think your over exaggerating a little with this post.

I played like 3 games with her pre-6.14 and I could tell you its a bad update. You don't need to be a main to see it.

Legendskiller7646 votes

I agree, this choice is stupid as fuck. ANd they nerfed damage in addition...

stokastic38 votes

Alright, I've also played quite a lot of games on Taliyah (just about 70). Here's my opinion:

First of all, I've only played one game with the new casting paradigm, and I found it much more cumbersome than the old one. Obviously this is because I haven't had time to get used to it, however, I don't see the reasoning why this is a change that had to be made over a month after her release. This is a fundamental shift which demolishes the learning curves that us mains have put so much time into mastering. While I agree that with some time I will probably get used to it, I just found it so unsatisfying to play.

Now, I get the reasoning for the change (be able to remove the spell lockout after casing W), however I don't understand why this couldn't simply be done with the old casting method. It was noted that removing the lockout would open up the W-E combo adding significant power, so they strongly nerfed the E to compensate. This change could have absolutely been applied to the old system.

Another thing I don't like is the cast indicator. It no longer shows the hit radius which is a small but non-negligible nerf to the Taliyah player as far as feedback goes. It makes it very difficult to gauge whether or not it will hit and thus reactively follow up with E.

I think the changes were made with the right mindset (make the combo faster and easier to pull off, nerf damage to compensate), but I believe the execution has perhaps made this in fact less rewarding to the player than before.

Astôlfo32 votes

Literally Riot being like "let's listen to the people who know jackshit about Taliyah instead of her mains" when they decided to change the W.

Athina15 votes

This is exactly how I felt when I heard about this. Anyone who played more than 5 games of the old version knows that the old way was better. I don't care about the lock out at all, just give us back the old casting paradigm.

Who is Taliyah30 votes

As a Taliyah main myself, currently 246k Mastery points. I totally agree. I got so used to the old W that this vector cast thing is just impossible for me. I had a hard time to hit it against bots in custom games and it just feels so wrong. The doublecast was perfect as it was.

yamimosh17 votes

ive never actually been so distraught to any change since i started playing in season 2

im extremely hopeful that they will change the cast to the original

Athina16 votes

I'm in the same boat. Taliyah is the only champion that has felt fun to play for me since her release, and now that they've changed her so drastically without much reason I don't know what to do anymore.

Who is Taliyah16 votes

I actually planned to never stop playing Taliyah because she is so much fun to me, but since this morning, except for custom games vs bots, I didn't play a single game Taliyah and only 1 league game in total. She is almost unplayable with that changed W. I loved her damage, seing her damage getting nerfed is a little sad but not the worst thing. What bothers me most is that W change They made it way harder to hit the W than it was before.

Malfini14 votes

Original as in the release? If that is what you mean, then YES!

Frijolous13 votes

No, the change is great. You're not special snowflakes for playing Taliyah before she was cool. Get over it.

The fact that vector casting will cost you games is a complete and utter exaggeration.

Legendskiller7612 votes

Vector casting is a total non sense on taliyah cos she need to do things fast and ACCURATE and the w is so small to use it good with vector system. In other hand, taliyah is a champion who need to be at a perfect place and using cursor to drage dont help that too. You will see in 3 days, when taliyah winrate will fall by 10%...

Athina9 votes

Probably by more, in my opinion. So many people trying to play a difficult champion with a new shitty ability. That, and I would think many Taliyah mains (such as myself) won't be playing her much for a while.

Legendskiller7612 votes

Same here :/ I fell in love with her kit, kiting abilities, utility, roaming. It was a realy hard to play champion but i loved her kit. Now i will wait and hope a change cos she is rusty atm :/

Poppystar12 votes

Please change it back riot. I just played an hour custom and using the new W is still impossible when in combat. I've used normal casting, quick casting, and and quick casting with indicators. It is so completely different. People who mained Taliyah now are at an extreme disadvantage...

EtyrnaI10 votes

If anyone is in this thread and doesn't understand what were talking about, Im streaming Taliyah at the moment and you can see why the change is a hurt and not a help.

https://www.twitch.tv/etyrnal

SubRosa119 votes

First of all, great post dude!

May be add some math and facts to clarify some moments. First of all, in 6.13 I need to predict where enemy will be in next 0.85s in order to land W, moreover, my enemy has even more time of awarness, cse I must land E first. In 6.14 I need to predict where enemy will be in next 0.85 + time of vector casting(aka click and drag which is like 0.35-0.45 sec I guess in skilled hands) which bring us enormous 1.2-1.3s of prediction. And here even more. With vector cast, casting spell OUTSIDE of MAX range force champ to go into it(max range) to cast spell, while casting it same way with double cast make champ to cast it IMMEDIATTLY at MAX range... Obviously, that change mess up a lot of combos, cse you accidentally cancel your W cast with E or Q

Poppystar14 votes

{quoted}

First of all, great post dude!

May be add some math and facts to clarify some moments. First of all, in 6.13 I need to predict where enemy will be in next 0.85s in order to land W, moreover, my enemy has even more time of awarness, cse I must land E. In 6.14 I need to predict where enemy will be in next 0.85 + time of vector casting(aka click and drag which is like 0.35-0.45 sec I guess in skilled hands) which bring us enormous 1.2-1.3s of prediction. And here even more. With vector cast, casting spell OUTSIDE of MAX range force champ to go into it(max range) to cast spell, while casting it same wat with double cast make champ to cast it IMMEDIATTLY at MAX range... Obviously, that change mess up a lot of combos, cse you accidentally cancel your W cast with E or Q

Wow this is exactly what would happen to me. I would completely cancel W while trying to cast my other abilities...

Madra10 votes

The damage nerf was incoming regardless of a change to W's cast.

Malignis9 votes

I never imagined the new casting would be as awful as it is. It feels so buggy to even try to play Taliyah like I did before. Congratulations riot, you took the only new champion that I actually enjoyed playing and made her feel awful. If this doesn't get changed back I probably won't bother playing her anymore. I don't see the point of relearning how to play a champion that I already spent so much time learning in the first place, just because you had a change of heart.

ExiledTitan9 votes

I honestly hate the new Seismic Shove cast. I still fail to see why users complained about the original one. By using smart cast on the old version, I could hold then release "W" while dragging my mouse in the direction of what I wanted, which I found relatively easy even when I first started playing Taliyah. With the new cast most of the time it fails to even launch and my percentage of actually knocking the target up has decreased. Tbh the way she was had been perfect. The nerf on her E has also bothered me. No more one shots :( If you failed to pull off your combo multiple times then maybe you should move on to a different champ. What next? Is riot gonna make Azir and Yasuo easier to use just because many people find it difficult. Basically just removes the joy in learning difficult champions. Just me 2 cents .-.

StreetHawke9 votes

Please listen to those of us that actually played her before this patch and fell in love with her. Nerf her all you want. But please change that cast on Seismic shove back to how it was on release. Not having the circle of effect really messes with our ability to understand where and what we are shoving.

Bisaknosp9 votes

i literally missed more than half of my w's when playing her this change is so bad holy shiet

Lunar3dge9 votes

OK. I looked in the patch notes and I got kind of excited because the cast lock was gone. Even if there was the nerf to her damage, I was ok with it. It seemed like it would open it up a lot for her. I had no idea what vector casting was so I skipped right over that part. How bad could it be, right? It was bad. It was really, really bad. It just feels so imprecise. I've tried using it and had the enemy fly in the opposite direction. It very rarely shoots them in exactly the place I moved my mouse to. The old w felt so satisfying and good to use. I found it really easy to pick up as well. Taliyah quickly became a favourite of mine but now I don't enjoy playing her anymore. It doesn't feel as good to play. It makes it harder to actually hit as well because it doesn't start the second you hit the button and it doesn't show a range indicator so it cancels fairly often. I really hope this thread succeeds because I really want the vector casting reverted.

RockUpper9 votes

I don't even consider myself a Taliyah main. I played her a fair amount before this patch, though, and after testing out the change I can say with the upmost certainty that vector cast does **not **work for her W. It's too precise a move to have that much commitment front-loaded onto it. Now instead of being a control mage (or disruptor, or whatever Riot wants to call her design) she's turning into a burst mage with her W being her single point of failure. The additional nerfs planned for next patch will tell you the direction this champ is heading, and I don't like it. The only thing I didn't like about her old w was the inability to cast summoner spells (namely flash) during the lockout. Everything else made perfect sense to me. A revert with summoner spells free would be amazing, but I'll take a full revert just as well.

Tacosrock8 votes

I personally like the change to the W. Once you get used to it, it's pretty strong. She has an extra combo to use now. But, I do agree with you. They need to revert it, simply because they're going to nerf every other aspect of her due to this change. They have already given her 2 simultaneous nerfs on the current PBE patch thing... that worries me. Hopefully they revert it because I don't really think many had an issue with the old w... it was tough to get used to, but once you did, it was pretty good.

Athina12 votes

The removal of the lock out is strong, but everyone hates the vector cast. I would much rather just go back to 6.13 rather than mess with it more. In my opinion though, she doesn't need the lock out removal; she just needs to be able to cast summoner spells during it.

Votable Jester8 votes

I'm not a Taliyah main (I play about 1/2 the mages fairly often), but I do have 2 mastery 6 tokens on her (waiting for that blue essence). I honestly feel like the vector cast is better overall than the way it was before. It may take a bit to get used to from the old way, but it will also make it easier for people to start playing her.

It also makes it far faster to cast imo than it did before. You all act like vector casting takes a half second to set up, but within a game of play, you should easily get it down to < 1/4 sec. The enemy also doesn't know where you're casting it during this time, or even if you are.

I'm sure I'm going to get downvoted by a bunch of angry Taliyah mains, but you all need to understand that there are people who play Taliyah other than Taliyah mains. This change will make it easier to shift from playing Viktor one game to Taliyah the next. Taliyah's W would have been a vector cast from the start if literally any other Riot employee had made her. The creator just failed too hard with Viktor's E to be willing to put vector cast on a champion he made. Everyone he talked to told him he should make it a vector cast too.

Athina18 votes

It also makes it far faster to cast imo than it did before.

This is exactly the opposite of what happened. The old version would start casting the instant you chose a location. The vector cast version waits until you choose a direction. You will never be as fast as it used to be, and that extra delay can and will lose you games.

Votable Jester3 votes

I mean in terms of your hand on the keys. The old way made you press W one more time than it does now. It just slowed down combat. I'd much rather go W -> slide -> release -> E -> Q than E -> W -> release -> slide -> W -> release -> Q.

Athina16 votes

I'll trade an extra click for the possibility of actually landing the ability any day.

Oscar Senpai8 votes

I am also a Taliyah main. She is my most played champion. But you might be mixing up what needs to be done.

First, W is slower for sure now, which makes it feel clunkier.

Second, vector casting is definitively smoother.

Third, because of how vector casting works, it can fizzle out the ability.

Something important to account for is that there are 2 ways of casting, (normal and smart cast)

However the solution is similar:

For SMART CASTING: Make the cast start as soon as you PRESS "W" wherever your mouse is at, in case the mouse is out of range make it cast it at max range from Taliyah's current position.

For NORMAL CASTING: Make the cast start as soon as you CLICK the mouse.

This should make it feel smoother and as fast as the old version but with the benefits of vector casting.

Promptø8 votes

I absolutely hate this change, vector casts just don't feel right for this ability and break up the fun fast pace kite and disrupt playstyle that Taliyah had before this patch

Zonnap8 votes

I totally agree with this, as a rank 7 taliyah player I feel like this is simply the worst thing they could've done to taliyah. I used to be able to do her combo a lot faster, but with the vector casting its all gone down the drain and I doubt I will play taliyah due to this. The problem here is making the champ "more accessible" we don't need more accessible champions as we already have plenty of broken champions that people already play. We need champions that require skill to play such as Riven , Zed or LeeSin to list a few.

Poppystar7 votes

Riot at least let us toggle vector on and off please. That would solve everything. Have vector be default setting and then have to be able to be turned off... Just because an ability is sort of hard to get used to doesn't mean its a bad ability. Why change it...?

Giraffestronaut7 votes

Riot, for the love of god change it back. I was landing more EW combo's before the changes (but I'd like to call it a NERF at this point). I can't stand the new W, it's not even a vector for crying out loud! You can't even come close to comparing it to Viktor's E or Rumble's R. Do us a favor, please.

I don't think I'll be playing her anymore, it just isn't fun and incredibly frustrating.

Csanityy7 votes

Ive Put in so many games in ranked with her almost 100 (97 to be exact) i have a 61% win rate with her (http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=csanityy), and i cant be more disapointed in her rework with vector casting. she is litterally unplayable. I CLIMBED FROM SILVER 4 to GOlD 1 - (into promos with her for plat) i litterally get screwed over to a rework that riot knows nothing about, listening to these so called "taliyah players" thinking they knew the champ. in my honest opinion if they want to catter to those people make it a option same with rumble to switch either or, from vector casting OR double tap casting. it should not be hard to do wit how good riot is at programming now compared to season 2...

and i hope every single on of us messages them through support, telling them to look at this forum. i litterally love taliyah so much she made me get back into this game with how well they balanced a champion and made it really rewarding kit. please riot listen to the players who have played her more than 5 times. listen to the ones that played her and got so well with her that they actually enjoyed the kit you have given them in the beginning it was new and fresh of to bring, it was a learning curve the novice player wouldnt get until playing champs like Zilean Soraka Velkoz Ziggs Chogath all these champions take skill to place knock ups, trajectory skill shots and more.

Skippy Style7 votes

Agreed, the new vector casting feels horrible and much less responsive.

Hubristic6 votes

Signed in to bump. Didn't know the change was going to make it like this. The ability feels awful now.

Crossx66 votes

the gameplay is now terrible, and I can't believe newcomers to Taliyah will find it easy to play with .........also I used to move a lot while I was playing and there was no problem ....but now if i press W and move before i release it I cancel the spell ....which caused me to die most of the time ......now I have to be more careful where I click to move because I can't change it in order to successfuly cast W, which can make me run a little too close to the enemy team (which it did) ....and if not, I press it 5 times and end up not casting it at all and dying .....then there's the thing where you have to click, aim, release and after that the spell starts to cast which has delay before it pops, which costs you a lot of time in combat, while before it started to cast when you first pressed W, during the delay you aimed it and pressed again to lock the direction and waited for it to pop, which was very soon, since it started to cast earlier ...saving a lot of time .....also i still preffer E W combo ....the indicator is there long enough for the enemy to avoid it ...that's why there's slow on E, so you get close, slow them with E and kick them into it with W ...W E combo works if unexpected but after you land it the second time, they learn to easily avoid it .....#MakeTaliyahGreatAgain

A Liberal6 votes

I agree... I never found her old cast system to be hard to cast... honestly I don't know why they made such a big deal that her E needed to be casted before her W... like yeah... that's the point.

InNova Turtle6 votes

This change makes me die a little inside I haven't landed a single w the way I've wanted it to be since this update pls help ;-;

Vexed Fate6 votes

I'm agreeing with you guys here. These changes were terrible. I'm not a pure Taliyah main but I have been playing her a lot prior to the change and after playing a handful of games with the new casting method, it feels so unbearable to play with. It feels so clunky and super difficult to use. I feel that there are more issues with it then there has ever been to begin with. Examples: On occasion the W will refuse to activate. Got tower dived and tried to use it to knock the enemy champ back under tower for the extra tower shot but nope W doesn't go off and gets canceled. Easily gets canceled when casting outside of cast range. When trying to cast, pushes the enemy in the opposite direction of cursor. I've found these changes to hurt the game play more then it helped. The old casting method worked much better and would definitely prefer it over the new vector casting, even if it means that the lockout has to be put back in.

Weapon Meister6 votes

I've played a lot of games with Taliyah myself, I felt accomplished getting Mastery Rank 7 the other day.

Playing with the new W just doesn't feel right, it kept getting cancelled when I tried to use it some times at max range, the other way just felt fine, I rather get locked out than have the current W.

A hotfix would be great.

TheyCallMeKeiff6 votes

Like, okay, I have played Taliyah more than any other champion since the day she was released, I could confidently call myself a Tali main, finding success with her both as a mid and support. I'm currently sitting t 90K champion points and rank 7. I put a lot of work into learning her, and was rewarded for it. Now with just one patch you have completely voided any experience Taliyah players have gained.

While I do understand on some level, that if I learned her one way, I can learn her another as well, this is not what this is about. I'm not mad because I have to accept that my skill with her is now lowered because of this completely new mechanic added to her W, its that this new mechanic completely ruins her play style. I will gladly take that half second to recast W if it mean's I'll actually land it. Even in customs vs bots I could barely land a w itself, let alone successfully pull off a combo, where as last patch I was carrying games and earning S grades back to back.

I think riot's head was in the right place with this change, but the execution was absolutely abysmally. I could happily play her 10 games back to back in 6.13, now I don't even like seeing other people play her because I know what a disadvantage they are now at because Riot gave into the demands of people who played 5 games with her and complained that the original double casting was hard, instead of actually taking time to learn her.

Aren't champions all supposed to feel unique and different from each other? Aren't you aiming to make a diverse game full of different kinds of play styles and mechanics? I could swear that's what you're always telling us, but then you just go copy and paste some Viktor code and call it a day.

Like I'm actually ashamed that riot would give into demands of people that haven't even taken the time to understand her.

I understand the spell lock affected her learning curve a bit, and honestly, it takes some getting used to but once you understand it, its not really as much of a hindrance as everyone seems to think. It was an aspect of her kit that needed some attention but really I could go either way on it. Keeping it intact makes her a bit more difficult to learn for some people, removing it makes her easier to play, but also gives her a new combo variation, which would cause her W, E, or both to get nerfed. That all fine, I could care less about it either way because spell locked or not, she's still my Taliyah. With this new mechanic on W, she is far from the Talliyah we all have come to know and love.

For example, Zyra's snare basically freezes her in place for the cast animation, Xerath and Jhin ults root them in place, Ahri has to get slightly out of her comfort zone to land charms occasionally, it's just a part of the game, people have learned that, and can now play around it, you didn't even give people that chance here. Many skills in league can have a risk/reward aspect and Taliyah was just another one of those people until you decided destroying her player base completely was a better choice than letting people actually learn her own unique playstyle.

Testificate6 votes

I never expected to fall in love with taliyah, i play assassins and duelists and overall play anyone who is gonna be in your face, but the incredible fluidity and flexibility of her kit were irresistible and i couldn't stop spamming her, that is until this completely insane and unwarranted butchering of something so damn perfect. I have never in my entire life been so salty about anything more than the w change. Vector casting just doesn't make sense on a champion that needs to spam movement commands as much as taliyah. I cancel way too many w's now and hitting it so much harder because of the increased time it takes to cast due to casting on release instead of on click. Please Please Please riot at least give us the option to choose. Id rather have the stupid lockout than this vector bullshit any day.

The Iron LoliCon5 votes

Riot kind of messed up big on this one. People already didn't like her too much and not with the change to that ability the people that did like her don't want to play her. I think it would be best to return her back to her original form before patch 6.14

Fèrret5 votes

This vector cast thing should only be on Viktor and Rumble, leave my Talibae alone

Eedat1 votes

just turn off quick casting for the ability....

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