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Cycle of nerfs ruining this game - Borderline ready to quit LoL

Learn 2 Swim··40 votes·4,290 views

Lets get this out of the way first. "Then leave and stfu". Great comment bro, never seen that coming.

Ive played this game for 2.5 years and probably gave Riot somewhere around $400-600 over that span and I dont regret it. I never played a MOBA before and this game has been pretty much the only game I have played in that 2.5 years.

In my opinion this game is going downhill very fast and Riot's way of balancing is killing it for me. Constantly nerfing the champion roster does a bunch of different negative things. One of the worst ones being that no one wants their main all of a sudden getting nerfed when you've played that champion for hundreds of games.

I'll use Jax as an example here. In season 3 it was always Shyvana Renekton with Mundo/Trundle having their moments. But Jax was a champion who was crapped on for over a year. He was average or slightly above average for the longest time and got destroyed by these top laners. After a few different nerf cycles all the surrounding champions around Jax get nerfed and all of a sudden cries ring out of "JAX OP NERF" and even though Renekton was massively OP for about a year and allowed to be #1 for this length of time, Jax sees a couple weeks of being one of the best top laners and gets smacked down almost instantly. If you invested 100+ games as an underpowered Jax and see almost zero improvements to your favorite champion and all of a sudden your main gets nerfed while being the same for so long what do you think those players who main Jax are going to do?

Nerfing is a NEGATIVE. It hurts everyone eventually and it needs to stop. Riot is now nerfing a bunch of assassins and then after this happens ADC's will have no counters** which BTW is the current moment we are at.** "Protect the ADC comp" is already beginning. GE Tigers destroyed KT Rolster last night with the 3 supports protecting KogMaw team comp in 2 different games. In a couple months ADC's will get nerfed and then bruisers and AP mids will be "OP" again and get nerfed.

The absolute worst part of this cycle of nerfs which barely anyone realizes or talks about is how this is making 90% of the champion pool too similar. A perfect example of this was the Vel Koz changes that ALMOST went through where Riot tried taking away his high base damage and turning him into another stale AP mid laner who would have had to build the same 4-5 items that every AP mid had to build. This kind of stuff happens all the time but usually to a smaller degree. Almost every champion nerf or rework brings that champion closer to every other type of that champion because Riot saves all its really cool ideas for new releases. You really think that Kalista synergy with another champion was going to be for the Casseopiea rework? LOL ya right. This also brings up another negative aspect of this game where the new champions make the old ones obsolete.

Slightly off point of what I am talking about but I think the biggest nail in the coffin for this game is the increased difficulty/complexity (flashy play$) that are actually quite hard to follow for the new comer. I don't mind these crazy 5 man stuns or champion synergies (Kalista) but no casual player will be able to understand the new jungle+smite buffs or all the crazy stuff from the newer champions that is going on the screen.

I always compared LoL to Texas Hold em which was another game that on the surface was incredibly easy to play but has many layers of complexity you don't initially see. League was simple to me when I first got hooked to it. Pick a cool looking champion, 4 buttons to press, kill stuff. The further you stray away from the simplicity of League combined with the terrible newbie experience and the hard to follow Esports is definitely not going to grow your game. The MOBA players that want complexity are already playing DOTA2.

TLDR Riot should be buffing champions, not nerfing them in order to balance the game and they should focus on the basics that made this game fun instead of making it more complex.

Most of you will hate me for saying this but the LOUDEST I constantly heard the ESports crowd cheer was when S3 Nidalee was landing a spear. Simple skill, simple concept. She was not always "OP" either. I am sure if you look back at the patch notes there were a pile of nerfs on other champions that let her get out of control much like Zed is now because of the AP mana regen nerfs.

44 Comments

MotherChurch10 votes

I agree. I generally dislike Riot's approach to balance (nerf X champion). They have a great game on their hands but they IMO kind of need to let things play out more before making drastic changes to Champion kits. The constant nerf cycle reminds too much of balancing pains of World of Warcraft.

Amphets3 votes

TY ghostcrawler. He fucked up WoW and now he's here to fuck up LoL

mvargus8 votes

Insightful and I think in many ways an accurate post. The idea should be to make each champ unique and powerful in their own way, but the way "balance" appears to be approached is to smack down any champion that gets ahead of the pack too much.

However, it is extremely difficult to balance a game like this properly. Skill variances are a huge issue. I felt this last night when I got in a game with a bunch of "smurfs" (this is my first and only account, I started playing Jan 4 of this year.) I figured it out rather quickly when the chat got filled with a lot of statements about my playing poorly. And I admit that I was struggling. But I was playing a champ that I usually do quite well on. After the game I looked and could see that I had been put against stronger opposition than some of my other recent games. Now I didn't come here to post "nerf X" or anything. It isn't my way and more importantly the problem was my play, not that of anyone else.

But few posters here understand that and for too many players there is a very strong emotional attachment to a single champ. The numerous posts about how Ahri needs to be switched back are a great example. It sounds like Ahri did need to be shifted in focus, but to players who had used her for a year as a mage-assassin, the change is upsetting.

There is no easy solution to this. Riot wants the Esports to take off, which means they have to balance for that level of skill, but to me at least its very clear that the gap between Bronze skill levels and Pro skill levels are vast and what balances at the pro level can be grossy unbalanced at bronze level. It will be interesting to see how Riot solves this dilemma. I think if they don't pay some attention to the problems at the silver/bronze ranks they leave the game open to having its fanbase poached by the newer MOBAs out there. Riot's whole esport venture can only survive if their fanbase does. I suspect they will find that failure to listen to the community may hurt them in the long run.

Raptamei1 votes

{quoted}

There is no easy solution to this. Riot wants the Esports to take off, which means they have to balance for that level of skill, but to me at least its very clear that the gap between Bronze skill levels and Pro skill levels are vast and what balances at the pro level can be grossy unbalanced at bronze level. It will be interesting to see how Riot solves this dilemma. I think if they don't pay some attention to the problems at the silver/bronze ranks they leave the game open to having its fanbase poached by the newer MOBAs out there. Riot's whole esport venture can only survive if their fanbase does. I suspect they will find that failure to listen to the community may hurt them in the long run.

Dota doesn't care about low skilled players ("L2P NOOB") and the game is very popular. http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&appid=570&from=0

Respakt1 votes

That is not entirely true. They have nerfed pub menaces such as Spritbreaker and omniknight who had ridiculous pub winrates but were never touched competitively.

NoMonku1 votes

{quoted}

But few posters here understand that and for too many players there is a very strong emotional attachment to a single champ. The numerous posts about how Ahri needs to be switched back are a great example. It sounds like Ahri did need to be shifted in focus, but to players who had used her for a year as a mage-assassin, the change is upsetting.

This. I feel a reason I accept their nerfing champions somewhat is because I don't have any attachment to one particular champion anymore. Also since I have been playing for a long time now (years now) I have picked up a whole bunch of other so if my favorite gets nerfed/banned, I can always hop onto something else and still perform well. For me, I always try to look at it objectively. Why did RIOT nerf my champion. In a LOT of cases they always do it because there is too much power and/or there is something that creates toxic gameplay with that champion. The silence removal on LB is a good example. It was GREAT using it on someone because you felt rewarded for playing well, but your opponent had NO way of countering it as they would both get silenced AND then rooted into another root and then die without being able to flash/heal/dash away. The only "counter" was to not get caught or to hope you had some ally nearby that could potentially save you. In a lot of cases, I feel the nerfs are justified. There will always be times where RIOT DOES nerf TOO hard, in which case they will usually re"buff" what was nerfed, but it isn't too often.

While I do feel it is great that people can get attached to one champion, I feel it just isn't worthwhile as this game is designed to be "balanced" for ALL of them, not just your one favorite.

AquariusGine6 votes

I was going to say Then leave and stfu, but I read it all the way.

I agree with you 100%, some champions do not feel satisfying to master. And these constant nerf.. are starting to affect gameplay satisfaction for the sake of balance

AquariusGine2 votes

{quoted}

I was going to say Then leave and stfu, but I read it all the way.

I agree with you 100%, some champions do not feel satisfying to master. And these constant nerf.. are starting to affect gameplay satisfaction for the sake of balance.

Jax is an underwhelming pick and it's the truth.

Cassiopeia is my main and they did not give her any new playmaking-tools, as with the other recent reworks. They save the cool stuff for new releases. I hope they get their act together soon, things like Sona rework is a complete trainwreck

Lord Dusteon4 votes

For nerfs, there's a reason for that. If there are no nerfs (only buffs or kit shifts), then you eventually end up with a bunch of overbearing champions that hard counter each other. While this is fun for some people, it changes a lot of decisions to "who hard counters their team", which makes the counterplay champion select, not skill. While nerfing too much is bad (Eve), just going "we cant nerf people because thats bad" is inana and how we'd get release xin zhao type champions every game.

For that, Kog'maw is one of the highest damage adcs, who is extremely squishy and weak to all ins. As such, he ONLY works in a protect the adc comp, but works very well when he does get in one. Otherwise, assassins are being changed to have more counterplay, not being removed or gutted. Zed is getting nerfs to some of his stuff (right now it's tower pushing and AS), Fizz had his damage increased IF he lands his ult, etc.

Learn 2 Swim5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=x2JT3ave,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-01-30T16:41:30.070+0000)

For nerfs, there's a reason for that. If there are no nerfs (only buffs or kit shifts), then you eventually end up with a bunch of overbearing champions that hard counter each other. While this is fun for some people, it changes a lot of decisions to "who hard counters their team", which makes the counterplay champion select, not skill. While nerfing too much is bad (Eve), just going "we cant nerf people because thats bad" is inana and how we'd get release xin zhao type champions every game.

For that, Kog'maw is one of the highest damage adcs, who is extremely squishy and weak to all ins. As such, he ONLY works in a protect the adc comp, but works very well when he does get in one. Otherwise, assassins are being changed to have more counterplay, not being removed or gutted. Zed is getting nerfs to some of his stuff (right now it's tower pushing and AS), Fizz had his damage increased IF he lands his ult, etc.

What would you say the ratio is vs Riot nerfing something vs buffing something? I would guess its somewhere near 15:1 in favor of nerfing.

It is easier to nerf 1 champ then buff 4 champs but what is currently going on is way out of control. I also believe you can tweak a few numbers instead of completely reworking abilities. Lets look at current ADC's. Jinx Urgot Ashe MF are not being played. You could have a combo of less cooldowns on an ability or 2 and have a slightly higher ratios. Example: Jinx loses 10 second on her ult cooldowns and add 2 seconds of duration on chompers. Ashe's hawkshot loses 15 second cooldown, volley gets 10/15/20/25/30 dmg extra per level and her ult now scales off AD instead of AP.

How hard is this to do exactly???

Your Kog comments contradict each other and TBH don't make much sense and I wasn't talking about "protect the kogmaw" comps I said "protect the ADC's". If you think the assassin nerfs are over you are only kidding yourself.

ZetaFL3 votes

Fizz got gutted really. He can survive late game on a single target with his R on them. Past that he's far from what he was. Like. Look up what they did to evelynn way back when. Its similar to that.

Belisarius094 votes

I agree. I hate Rio's current balance philosophy. Revolving door nerfs don't jive.

Marthritis4 votes

Graves has always been my precious underdog champ for almost a year now. He was the first adc i played and only 6 months ago did i learn he was underpowered as hell. Riot gave him some buffs near the end of season 4 to make him more useful as an adc but even still Lucian did everything Graves did better. It's the beginning of season 5 now and all the burst adcs have been nerfed and Graves is finally getting some play. I haven't bothered much with him because i know riot will nerf him. Graves, the champ who was complete shit, is now "broken" this is stupid.

Jofeyy4 votes

I'd rather have every one of the champs op than absolutely none of them.

Remlap12232 votes

Kinda hard to do when all Riot does is nerf, except Lee Sin.

My Teams Garbage3 votes

Its really sad that Riot cant see that no one wants their favorite champions nerfed. They listen to this community when outcries for certain types of champions should to be nerfed but don't listen to the community when it comes to reworks like Skarner and Cass.

I think more focus on the positive should be taken just like the OP says. How hard can it be to make a couple number tweeks for under performing champions compared to gutting abilities?

If I mained Ahri and 4 other mid laners got small buffs I would be way less pissed off than if 3/4 my abilities got changed and downgraded.

FastAsHeck3 votes

Most of you will hate me for saying this but the LOUDEST I constantly heard the ESports crowd cheer was when S3 Nidalee was landing a spear. Simple skill, simple concept.

this is so damn true lol. i preferred this game when it was simplier, nowdays new champions have 5 passives and 20 abilities, each with some kind of weird effeect that you have never seen before. and although im a big fan of diversity (i dont want champions to be the same), this is a bit too much.

Clarkolas3 votes

I agree 100% about the buff over nerf thing, since now that ap assassins cant even 1 shot adc's they wont really have a counter anymore

Fock Raet Gumis2 votes

good riddance

c u 2 morrow

buy more rp

Nightcrow Teo2 votes

Riot became more braindead than before i mean comeon.... Removing the silence?? That's totally stupid!! They Nerfed every champ... Just because it feels fair to them doesnt mean it's fair to the players.... Many of the players even quit playing the game because of Riot so called "balance"... They just know what's good for them and not for us...

The new jungle.. It has been nerfed as hell!!! What do you expect?? We are NOT "METEOS" We can't jungle that good... Riot should think about the player that isnt so good at the game... We aren't Meteos or Dandy...

Hinro Honato1 votes

{quoted}

The new jungle.. It has been nerfed as hell!!! What do you expect?? We are NOT "METEOS" We can't jungle that good... Riot should think about the player that isnt so good at the game... We aren't Meteos or Dandy...

Practice? The new jungle isn't hard.

qetzel2 votes

I am not entirely certain that you have paid attention to recent patch notes. This is absolutely the worst time in the past year you could have written this (sorry for coming off as rude, but I can't think of another way to phrase that while still making it an effective opening sentence).

Riot have recently buffed Sejuani, Skarner, Hecarim, Zac, Kennen, Renekton and Shyvana. Jax also got a little something. The list goes on

The champions that they have nerfed deserved their nerfs. The top lane tanks in eary season 4 were too strong. Assassins are too strong now. Lulu and Soraka solo lanes had too much of an advantage. The list goes on once more.

In hindsight, I do not disagree with any of Riot's nerfs in the past year (although some of them were too much at once). Furthermore, after one or two months (when the players' skill increases) most of them see play again. Riot's recent trend of slightly buffing those that haven't while still nerfing those at the top is giving us a much larger roster.

agbudar1 votes

honestly what they really need to look at is older champion's take mordekaiser for example he still did "fine" for me when release xin came out yes early game was a pain but some of us remember the monster mordekaiser turned into regardless of the champions being released older champs "un nerfed" still had an impact olaf and eve were other example's they didnt have gapclosers and infinite mobility but their punches packed a lot. i remember the crowd cheering pretty loud when that mordekaiser got that penta kill single handedly (granted that enemy team was fukin stupid but o well) and everyone screams nerf nerf nerf.

if i play against a mobility champ with an imobile champ (lets say mobile bruiser vs imobile bruiser) that imobile bruiser better be FORCED to use his mobility to outrade the imobile bruiser but if he outrades the imobile bruiser anyway regardless of mobility you might as well delete champions like mordekaiser. there is no point in playing it.

and don't come up with blah blah blah mordekaiser ult + shield blah blah blah no all you need to do is have a 1 health pot on hand or take heal against him and you will NEVER give him a ghost just by half assing it.

every time i play against morde it feels so painfully easy to kill him. i used to love him but my pragmatist self shows me every time i see him (which never happened in the last YEAR) this will be an free win lane.

Nausicäa 1 votes

So, theres a conflicting message in what you're asking for. On the one hand you're saying you dont like the new more complex mechanics added to new champion releases and on the other you're complaining about champion homogenization. When you're at 120+ champions in order to avoid exactly that homogenization you need increasingly different and more complex champions to differentiate them from the existing 120. Otherwise every champion release would be a champion thats similar to an existing one.

Learn 2 Swim1 votes

{quoted}

So, theres a conflicting message in what you're asking for. On the one hand you're saying you dont like the new more complex mechanics added to new champion releases and on the other you're complaining about champion homogenization. When you're at 120+ champions in order to avoid exactly that homogenization you need increasingly different and more complex champions to differentiate them from the existing 120. Otherwise every champion release would be a champion thats similar to an existing one.

I dont mind the new complex mechanics but It makes it harder for new players to understand the game or watch the Esports. I rather see some of these new ideas put on existing champions but that will never happen since new OP champs = more money.

Wirius1 votes

No, you can't just buff champs all the time. This is a game of numbers. X seconds a Y damage until a champion dies. Z seconds of CC, etc. Lets say the average is five seconds for a champion fully focused to finish another champ off. Now you have one champ that can do it in 3 seconds. So do you buff everyone to kill everyone else to 3 seconds? NO. NO YOU DON'T. That would ruin the game balance as a whole.

You have to understand, there is an underlying game balance beyond individual champs. When an outlier appears that is too high, you nerf it. When it is too low, you buff it. The game will always have buffs and nerfs because the game balance as a whole is important, and must be kept. The best thing you can learn to do is not be frustrated at inevitable buffs and nerfs, because the balancing is far beyond that.

Learn 2 Swim1 votes

{quoted}

No, you can't just buff champs all the time. This is a game of numbers. X seconds a Y damage until a champion dies. Z seconds of CC, etc. Lets say the average is five seconds for a champion fully focused to finish another champ off. Now you have one champ that can do it in 3 seconds. So do you buff everyone to kill everyone else to 3 seconds? NO. NO YOU DON'T. That would ruin the game balance as a whole.

You have to understand, there is an underlying game balance beyond individual champs. When an outlier appears that is too high, you nerf it. When it is too low, you buff it. The game will always have buffs and nerfs because the game balance as a whole is important, and must be kept. The best thing you can learn to do is not be frustrated at inevitable buffs and nerfs, because the balancing is far beyond that.

So for every 1 thing you buff you nerf 15 other things and this doesn't ruin game balance as a whole?

EfficientDynamo1 votes

I can't say I agree with your logic about champ complexity. Champs like Annie, Ashe, and Ryze may be underpowered when compared to the more popular champs, but when you are working your way up to level 30 they are certainly able to hold their own. I personally have enjoyed working my way towards more complex champs as my skills improve, and LoL provides plenty of options to do so.

As for complexity = larger power budget, you do have some solid points. If anything I think Riot set the bar too low. If someone like Lee Sin, Fizz, Gnar, etc. is going to have so much power and utility then they should be much harder to play. The mechanics should be difficult that the average silver and gold player cannot effectively access that power, so you truly do have to master a champ to be good with them.

Cindikle1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Learn 2 Swim,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=x2JT3ave,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-01-30T16:24:26.223+0000)

In my opinion this game is going downhill very fast and Riot's way of balancing is killing it for me. Constantly nerfing the champion roster does a bunch of different negative things. One of the worst ones being that no one wants their main all of a sudden getting nerfed when you've played that champion for hundreds of games.

I would ague that it is more about how they balanced around the LCS in most cases. They still change things outside of that. But if a champion is shown as too strong in the LCS they get attention much much quicker.

I'll use Jax as an example here. In season 3 it was always Shyvana Renekton with Mundo/Trundle having their moments. But Jax was a champion who was crapped on for over a year. He was average or slightly above average for the longest time and got destroyed by these top laners. After a few different nerf cycles all the surrounding champions around Jax get nerfed and all of a sudden cries ring out of "JAX OP NERF" and even though Renekton was massively OP for about a year and allowed to be #1 for this length of time, Jax sees a couple weeks of being one of the best top laners and gets smacked down almost instantly. If you invested 100+ games as an underpowered Jax and see almost zero improvements to your favorite champion and all of a sudden your main gets nerfed while being the same for so long what do you think those players who main Jax are going to do?

Jax was strong. But I would say the biggest change that got him into "OP" status was the BotRK change. It was also a change that helped make Shyvana strong in the top lane. Trunde as well to a point. Although that was also partly because he's a tank counter.

I would say he is still a viable champion. His winrate is a little low because he does require a level of skill to survive the early game. Ranged taking up top lane also does not help a whole lot. He is stronger as a counterpick and when you need your top to bring a lot of damage.

Nerfing is a NEGATIVE. It hurts everyone eventually and it needs to stop. Riot is now nerfing a bunch of assassins and then after this happens ADC's will have no counters** which BTW is the current moment we are at.** "Protect the ADC comp" is already beginning. GE Tigers destroyed KT Rolster last night with the 3 supports protecting KogMaw team comp in 2 different games. In a couple months ADC's will get nerfed and then bruisers and AP mids will be "OP" again and get nerfed.

You cannot always buff. That will create some massive power creep. And they would have to adjust everything to match it.

In the case of your example though. The problem is the jungle. Jungle is a much less threat than it was in S4. Hyper-Carry ADC's and Protect the Carry comps that would normally be a risky move are that much more viable.

But that's not to say there is a problem with Protect the Carry comps. Just because a team did well with them does not make it a problem. Also this comp highly relies on teamwork. It wont be much of a problem in solo Q outside of maybe the top rankings.

The absolute worst part of this cycle of nerfs which barely anyone realizes or talks about is how this is making 90% of the champion pool too similar. A perfect example of this was the Vel Koz changes that ALMOST went through where Riot tried taking away his high base damage and turning him into another stale AP mid laner who would have had to build the same 4-5 items that every AP mid had to build. This kind of stuff happens all the time but usually to a smaller degree. Almost every champion nerf or rework brings that champion closer to every other type of that champion because Riot saves all its really cool ideas for new releases. You really think that Kalista synergy with another champion was going to be for the Casseopiea rework? LOL ya right. This also brings up another negative aspect of this game where the new champions make the old ones obsolete.

I really wouldn't say 90%. Vel'Koz change was because he was becoming too strong as a support. But it didn't last too long. He's still good. But he is closer to a weaker Zyra. If you're OK with giving up some of your utility for his damage it works.

Also lets not bring up Cass. No good will come of it.

Slightly off point of what I am talking about but I think the biggest nail in the coffin for this game is the increased difficulty/complexity (flashy play$) that are actually quite hard to follow for the new comer. I don't mind these crazy 5 man stuns or champion synergies (Kalista) but no casual player will be able to understand the new jungle+smite buffs or all the crazy stuff from the newer champions that is going on the screen.

This game is HORRID at being new player friendly. Not really anything i would call news. Riot really needs to work on this part. But they have a ton of outdated stuff to go with their outdated client. IMO the SR update should of been up into making a new client. A lot of people compare LoL with DotA. But don't realize how outdated LoL's client is and how they can't really do a lot of the stuff DotA does. Not until they find a way around it at least

Overall I don't have a problem with nerfing. But I do have a problem with how they nerf some champions. Too may stay a problem for too long. Such as Zed. He's highly oppressive in the middle lane. Has nothing to do with this late game scaling. While I will agree he does take some skill to play(reason for the lower win rate). But when champions like Cass get a bad rework(I know I said we shouldn't talk about her, sorry) for the same reason. I feel like there's a problem.

He has this problem in S3. He had this problem in S4. Only reason he wasn't so strong in S4 is because of the anti-snowballing mechanics that made the meta favor mid lanners who could farm and push forever to stall till their ADC could carry the game. Being oppressive and getting ahead meant very little in S4. I don't want to see him gutted or anything. But even just some energy cost adjustments to his early game could make the difference.

What buff would you make so that Zed is now less of a problem but still a strong assassin? Buffing mana regen is not an answer. Despite what people say, it is in a good spot. If changes need to be made, it's to the champions, not the regen. Such as Lux's E costing 130 mana. I can't think of a buff to a counter of this that wouldn't end up as a problem for the game as whole.

SnackieCakes1 votes

Dota 2 is a more complex game, but it's complexity is tied up in things like denying, turn time, and managing teleportation. I would argue that combat in LoL is often more nuanced.

NoMonku1 votes

I miss the older days. It was so much simpler then. Honestly it would be great if they didn't make new champions because of power creep, they make older ones obsolete or an inferior option for the most part. I do agree somewhat with your post, but I try to be objective and I slightly disagree with you. I feel I just accept RIOT's nerfs because that is how they have usually gone towards "balancing" for their game overall. It is also easier to do it this way then say, buffing EVERYONE else because then these other champions could be used/abused in ways/roles they weren't intended to be used in. Also it would take a LOT more time testing all the champions in said role to buff them then it would be to just nerf the one individual problem/abuse case. I just prefer nerfs as it usually stops a LOT of the people who are just playing the champion because s/he is OP and leaves only those who are really dedicated to that champion left(personal opinion).

Learn 2 Swim1 votes

{quoted}

I miss the older days. It was so much simpler then. Honestly it would be great if they didn't make new champions because of power creep, they make older ones obsolete or an inferior option for the most part. I do agree somewhat with your post, but I try to be objective and I slightly disagree with you. I feel I just accept RIOT's nerfs because that is how they have usually gone towards "balancing" for their game overall. It is also easier to do it this way then say, buffing EVERYONE else because then these other champions could be used/abused in ways/roles they weren't intended to be used in. Also it would take a LOT more time testing all the champions in said role to buff them then it would be to just nerf the one individual problem/abuse case. I just prefer nerfs as it usually stops a LOT of the people who are just playing the champion because s/he is OP and leaves only those who are really dedicated to that champion left(personal opinion).

From my example above, how is slightly tweaking a couple existing numbers on a champs kit harder than gutting 1 champions kit?

"Lets look at current ADC's. Jinx Urgot Ashe MF are not being played. You could have a combo of less cooldowns on an ability or 2 and have a slightly higher ratios. Example: Jinx loses 10 second on her ult cooldowns and add 2 seconds of duration on chompers (being on the ground). Ashe's hawkshot loses 15 second cooldown, volley gets 10/15/20/25/30 dmg extra per level and her ult now scales off AD instead of AP."

It is easier to predict what small number changes like this will do than changing 1 champions 4 abilities. Look at what just happened to Ahri. You cant look at the patch notes on her new kit and predict if she is still viable or not, it will take at least a month to figure it out. Look at when Elise got gutted and Lee Sin got slightly nerfed. Everyone said both champs got nerfed equally when those changes were in place but 2 months later Elise was at 38% winrate and Lee was still #1 or #2 jungler.

NoMonku1 votes

I'm going with this with a belief that RIOT actually invests a significant amount of time testing their champions with the said nerfs/buffs to the specific champions. Going by this, it is obviously a LOT easier to test one champion, say Tristana, and play test her against ALL the other ADC/supports out there then test Graves, MF, Lucian, Kalista, Ezreal, Corki, Ashe, Caitlyn, Draven, Jinx, Kog'Maw, Sivir, Quinn, Varus, and Vayne(I don't think I left anyone out) and try to buff all of THEM. Also there are a few who can easily just be taken into solo lanes because of how much power they have. A potential buff to someone meant for solo lane could turn them into an abuse case if used in a 1v1 scenario, which is usually best avoided unless they want to transition that champion towards that particular role.

Calabok1 votes

wow that is a lot of text for a general whine thread....

Patrick Steven H1 votes

looks like the china is showing in their marketing

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

TLDR Riot should be buffing champions, not nerfing them in order to balance the game and they should focus on the basics that made this game fun instead of making it more complex.

so they will buff some champs and guess what will happen? the same thiing

what those champions usualy need is making them more interactive so they wont push others out by simple point and click power

chumbler2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=x2JT3ave,comment-id=0016,timestamp=2015-01-31T14:21:53.085+0000)

so they will buff some champs and guess what will happen? the same thiing

what those champions usualy need is making them more interactive so they wont push others out by simple point and click power

You're as dumb as Riot if you think non-skillshot skills are bad. Stop parroting the garbage they spew. They have no idea what they're talking about.

{quoted}

That is not entirely true. They have nerfed pub menaces such as Spritbreaker and omniknight who had ridiculous pub winrates but were never touched competitively.

The spirit breaker nerfs were widely regarded as stupid and thus later fixed.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

You're as dumb as Riot if you think non-skillshot skills are bad. Stop parroting the garbage they spew. They have no idea what they're talking about.

you are dumb as a brick

whether its a nerf or a buff the effect stays the same - rotating the pool of fotm champs

on the other hand making a champion interactive makes that champions ballance reliant on players skill not the numbers

if riot gives a guy like ryze some simple buffs then ryzes will win just because they have better numbers not because they play better (thats why riot hates point and click skills, because you cant outplay them )

so your argument sucks overall its a good point to make a bigger pool of champions viable but your proposed sollution doesnt solve anything besides creating additional problems

Earthlord Jazz1 votes

"Riot is now nerfing a bunch of assassins and then after this happens ADC's will have no counters which BTW is the current moment we are at. "Protect the ADC comp" is already beginning. GE Tigers destroyed KT Rolster last night with the 3 supports protecting KogMaw team comp in 2 different games. In a couple months ADC's will get nerfed and then bruisers and AP mids will be "OP" again and get nerfed"

That was on patch 5.1 right? (not exactly sure). Which assassins were nerfed on that that one I forget

Scampy1 votes

I've played this game since Brand came out. Here's a harsh truth.

It's not going to get better. No matter how many people complain, no matter how sound your reasoning is, no matter which Rioter reads and responds to it, nothing is going to change. The most you'll get is a "You're totally right, we should do better!" But they won't change anything.

Hooloovoo1 votes

So...er...I went back through the last 6 patches and looked at all the champion changes. I didn't count bugfixes, but I categorized every other champion gameplay change (not visual/tooltip changes) as a buff, nerf, or rework/neutral/both. By my count, in the last 6 patches we've had 33 nerfs, 25 buffs, and 20 rework/neutral/both champion changes. This hardly seems to be a cycle of nerfs...

Jaegybomb1 votes

Nope. The game is popular because it is by far the best balanced. Please don't stop.

Chimprat1 votes

I agree buff Jax

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