ADCs are all overpowered now

Learn 2 Swim·Feb 3, 2015·40 votes·5,258 views

Ive seen 5-6 pro games now where they are running the protect the ADC comps with 3 supports. This is the worst part of LoL right here. Losers on the forums whine about assassins and Riot listens and they all get gutted within the month. For some reason Riot is leaving Zed and Kass alone but have no fears they will be gone soon.

Is this what you guys like the best? 1 ADC getting 3 pentas a game? Is this what LoL is about?

-AP mid mana regen nerfs -Assassins out of control in laning phase -Assassins removed from game within the month -ADC's have no counters -ADC's allowed to have no counters for 2 3 4 months?

I am watching 2 of the best teams in the world, EDG vs IG and I want to throw my TV out the window watching this Trist + nunu/lulu/janna game. Disgusting and shameful that LoL is balanced this way.

60 Comments

SookoFeb 3, 201514 votes

It's not like assassins are weak. Its more about ADCs being worshipped and forced to be excellent kiters to be useful. To catch a Kalista you now need point and click CC/two gapclosers or more/Veigar's E/long range abilities. To catch a Vayne, you need pinks/not be any kind of tank or bruiser because of her anti-melee kit/longer AA range/AoE effects/a pull.

Meanwhile, to catch an older ADC like Ashe, all you need to do is approach her from a location that isn't warded, she won't dash, knock you back or anything, and even if she does stun you or flash, one gapcloser that isn't Volibear/Garen/Udyr level of frustrating will catch her.

The high damage dealers are in a state that they get to burst down defense stackers that are in the game precisely to punish them for focusing the tank. BotRK, LW, VS, lifesteal and all that %HP you see everywhere is another hit to the stomach of the feeble tank race that hardly even manages to stand up now, because engages are becoming more and more pointless, burst is ten times more cost efficient than defense, and every support/ADC gets to completely nulify any attempt at picking off a carry unless they make a mistake so big that the game is already 1-sided by the time teamfights start.

Then we also have the mana regen nerf problems, that make buffing assassins impossible since they already dominate mid. We have ranged champions going top, bullying better than most melees and outscaling them too, we have the insane mobility meta that makes running as a gapcloser completely pointless, we have little viable tank items, low mobility tanks that can't even fit the meta, an overall anti-melee meta enforced even by the new champions that have come out (Kalista/Gnar).

SpongebobIsLifeFeb 3, 201513 votes

The problem is, ADCs are hard to adjust. You can nerf their base damage and everything, but as long as they are able to get to mid-late game, they are going to crap on everything in sight due to their standard item build. Riot can't do anything to ADCs without adjusting their items first and/or reworking crit.

What Is SmiteFeb 3, 20155 votes

Then to solve the issue you fix itemization for tanks and bruiser's, return the MS slow to Randuin's Omen and change pen items to work with only bonus armor/MR that a champion builds

NarasimhaFeb 3, 20152 votes

MS slow does nothing when they still have 3 other people to protect them. And I'm fairly certain Riot is against making armor pen bonus only because then it completely kills tanks. Atleast now they can work with it with enough armor.

KidSpectreFeb 4, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=What Is Smite,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1gOEX3i3,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-02-03T23:25:45.336+0000)

Then to solve the issue you fix itemization for tanks and bruiser's**, return the MS slow to Randuin's Omen** and change pen items to work with only bonus armor/MR that a champion builds

No, the slowing the attacker's ms on-hit with Randuin's was ridiculous. That with Thornmail punished you WAY too hard for trying to do your job.

Danica1708Feb 4, 20154 votes

It was supposed to punish you for doing your job as an ADC. Bad ADC, why you focus tank? Go get squishy.

FedAsFukFeb 4, 20151 votes

Not completely ADC job in fights is stay safe and deal damage to closest priority target (none available then closest target) so there is a very good chance that the tank with AS slow+thornmail is in your face going "haha"

FedAsFukFeb 4, 20153 votes

MS* sorry wrong train of thought but it makes self kiting tanks virtually impossible which builds more into the protect the ADC comps IMO. IF the ADC can't be safe on their own the team is going to build around keeping them alive

GloriousKaiserFeb 5, 20152 votes

Which is why position is even more key. If you manage to get tagged, you should be punished for that. Of course, I'm not gonna go on to say, that you should instantly die if Garen manages to get his Q on you but you should be unable to safely accomplish objectives because of what happened.

EDIT: And with Kalista punishing melees without dash+cc for even existing, ADCs is not likely to be punished anytime soon with what OP said about 3-4 champs putting all their resources into one guy.

Danica1708Feb 5, 20151 votes

The protect the ADC comp has been a thing since I joined and actually was aware of the meta. (I joined when Vi came out btw).

Also, yes the ADC's job IS to focus the closest priority target, but tanks have bottom priority generally. And yes, I am perfectly aware that there are situations in which focusing the tank is pretty much unavoidable. I've been in those situations. They're frustrating. But at the same time, ideally you shouldn't focus the tank. The enemy ADC/APC/Assassin should be your first target depending on who's fed and who isn't. Then the support and tank. Tanks were SUPPOSED to punish ADC's (and APC's. and assassins. and everyone.) for focusing them. They're supposed to distract you and not die. That's why I personally feel that the MS slow of Randuin's shouldn't have been taken out.

B3ERFeb 4, 20159 votes

This is not hate against you but hate against Riot. I'd back your argument if Riot didn't massively buff the ADC class in the ADC patch (This was an itemization patch). Was it necessary to remove the BT botlane dominance? Yes. Did it make the ADC class more of a bitch to deal with? You fuckin' betcha.

In a perfect world, Riot would have to improve the itemization options of other classes to compete, or allow assassins to be the stopping force to the ADCs. Guess which one Riot chose.

Neither.

Remlap1223Feb 4, 20158 votes

Karthus Still waiting on that bruiser rework.

lojicianFeb 4, 20153 votes

I can understand adcs being strong lategame in situations where they're supported by the team. It's incredibly stupid that they're also huge lane bullies and often duelists on top of that though.

Fitz n The FoolFeb 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I can understand adcs being strong lategame in situations where they're supported by the team. It's incredibly stupid that they're also huge lane bullies and often duelists on top of that though.

Most pf them arent lane bullies. It's just that ranged auto attacks > melee's without gap closers. The only actual lane bullies are Cait, Quinn and possibly Vayne/Trist. If you're melee vs any of the other ADCs you can beat them as long as you have a gap closer. Fiora can shit on an ADC in a 1v1 lane.

lojicianFeb 4, 20152 votes

"Most adcs aren't lane bullies" is almost true in the technical sense like "most fighters aren't viable". The immobile turrets with older designs that are rarely used aren't lane bullies, fine. The new commonly played ones are. And you're forgetting things like graves/lucian/ez. The vast majority of fighters (even limiting ourselves to the viable fighters) will get facerolled in lane then outscaled by a generic guy with a dash and a few nukes with a couple exceptions like irelia/fiora.

Fitz n The FoolFeb 4, 20152 votes

{quoted}

"Most adcs aren't lane bullies" is almost true in the technical sense like "most fighters aren't viable". The immobile turrets with older designs that are rarely used aren't lane bullies, fine. The new commonly played ones are. And you're forgetting things like graves/lucian/ez. The vast majority of fighters (even limiting ourselves to the viable fighters) will get facerolled in lane then outscaled by a generic guy with a dash and a few nukes with a couple exceptions like irelia/fiora.

Actually there are a lot of exceptions. Fiora, Irelia, Jax, Trynd, Xin can all 1v1 most ADCs late game. Its that ADCs get peel and you get kited, therefore you lose. It's not the kits or the items, other than Vayne (toxic kit) and maybe Trist, who has 2 self peels.

lojicianFeb 4, 20152 votes

We were talking about lane. Jax does not beat dashing adcs in lane. Some adcs like vayne jax doesn't beat at any point in the game but w/e. I meant 'outscale' in terms of team usefulness after the laning phase and not continued 1v1ing. Maybe that's what the confusion is.

Tik115Feb 4, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Its Spongebob,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1gOEX3i3,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-02-03T21:11:32.624+0000)

The problem is, ADCs are hard to adjust. You can nerf their base damage and everything, but as long as they are able to get to mid-late game, they are going to crap on everything in sight

I see no problem with this, I thought the entire concept of carries were they were meant to have piss poor early game, Hell that's why there's a role in the game outright dedicated to protecting them early game, The issue here is that power spike comes way too quickly, When carries get that 1 major item suddenly they are shredding, they need to ether rework carries scaling or do what they did with all the tank items, nerf stats and jack up the price

FedAsFukFeb 4, 20151 votes

At the same time ADCs are suppose to do insane damage, they are the primary or in some cases ONLY source of sustained damage for their team, however the ADCs are appearing stronger because the infinite poke champs are coming back (xerath, Orianna, all that boring crap). And those are all champs that can still be easily assassinated however it is risky to run assassins, even before the nerfs in COMPETITIVE (SoloQ is different) because if they don't get ahead early, you actually have a useless champ you now have to carry to a win. Personally I don't think it has as much to do with the nerfs as much as unless assassins can completely dominate the lane (where they need to be nerfed) then they are incredibly risky for teams to pick, which leads us back to the boring as hell protect the ADC comps, my vote? Bring back carry top laners (vlad, riven, renekton etc.) and bring back less safe ADCs (Vayne, Draven) champs that rely on kills and not farming to level 18 (trist+cait) and the only way to make this change happen would be Riot buffing the carry top laners and the aggressive ADCs. I think that would make the game much more interesting, if you see a Draven in a protect the ADC comp you are going to be impressed by the mechanics unlike Kog/Cait/Trist where the range they have makes them untouchable in the first place.

SmokinSickStyleFeb 3, 201511 votes

I tell you a secret, 3 supports 2 carries have always been OP since both ADC and Supp got buffs (Especially if you go protect the Vayne teamcomp).

Assassins?

They have been relevant just these 2 months because people just re-discovered them (People seriously believe that 10% exhaust nerf is not worth taking against burst assassins anymore or people not wanting to counterbuild because muh mana regen) after being ingnored a good part of season 4 league of ADC.

Assassins were\are just a distraction to the real problem: Ranged AD building crit with selfpeel\dashes crapping on everything melee that doesn't have more than a gap closer.

Why you think Vi is becoming popular again?

She has to press max 2 keys to properly lock down an ADC.

Removing Assassins kinda favors mages overlord rise and you will have the right to go APC+ADC+3utility\supports\tank\initiatior\ basically anything that can let your carries do their job.

Learn 2 SwimFeb 3, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I tell you a secret, 3 supports 2 carries have always been OP since both ADC and Supp got buffs (Especially if you go protect the Vayne teamcomp).

Assassins?

They have been relevant just these 2 months because people just re-discovered them (People seriously believe that 10% exhaust nerf is not worth taking against burst assassins anymore or people not wanting to counterbuild because muh mana regen) after being ingnored a good part of season 4 league of ADC.

Assassins were\are just a distraction to the real problem: Ranged AD building crit with selfpeel\dashes crapping on everything melee that doesn't have more than a gap closer.

Why you think Vi is becoming popular again?

She has to press max 2 keys to properly lock down an ADC.

Removing Assassins kinda favors mages overlord rise and you will have the right to go APC+ADC+3utility\supports\tank\initiatior\ basically anything that can let your carries do their job.

I'll tell you a secret. Your bronzie secret tactics arent good. The more I read this crap the more I want to google that Billy Madisen quote. May god have mercy on your soul.

Mikal PikalFeb 3, 20159 votes

You fail at making a decent argument sir, not that you care. You cannot claim his argument is bad without providing a reason why. Simply stating a rank is not sufficient. If his reasoning is wrong and you know better because you are higher rank, please do tell.

blueberrypancakeFeb 4, 20152 votes

Assassins are gone and Vi is coming back

ASSASSIN MID VI F*** YEAH

TheI3igDaddyFeb 3, 20159 votes

Or you can stop watching the LCS. Period.

Not to be a debbie downer, but seemingly the only way we can actually knock some sense into Riot's balancing issues is to stop giving them LCS viewership.

Part of me doesn't even get why the LCS is so popular; the teams play to win, not to have fun. They will find the best possible chance of winning and never deviate from that, regardless of what the fans want. So it shouldn't be surprising that in X meta you just see teams using Y strategy over and over and over. Where's the fun in watching that?

WooBeeWooFeb 3, 20152 votes

This is true. Its gotten almost too competitive. You can't watch LCS anymore and get much out of it because they are lane swapping and grouping at like 5 mins to get turrets and only playing jarvin and gnar.... its not worth anything because other than knowing that jarvin is top tier I get nothing out of it and its not fun to watch. Even teamfights only happen when one team has built enough of a lead to for sure win. Vision control is basically the majority of the game watching wards get killed and put back is god dam annoying.

Unironic SJWFeb 3, 20154 votes

And what's wrong with a balanced team comp?

Boards complains about the stupidest shit.

Just because you can't pick 5 squishy zero CC damage dealers and win against an organized team doesn't make that fact a problem.

The ADC bitching just gets out of hand because everyone thinks they should have the right to roll face across the keyboard and blow up whatever squishy they please, or build 1 damage item and 4 tank items and 1v5 the enemy team.

Learn 2 SwimFeb 3, 20155 votes

{quoted}

And what's wrong with a balanced team comp?

Boards complains about the stupidest shit.

Just because you can't pick 5 squishy zero CC damage dealers and win against an organized team doesn't make that fact a problem.

The ADC bitching just gets out of hand because everyone thinks they should have the right to roll face across the keyboard and blow up whatever squishy they please, or build 1 damage item and 4 tank items and 1v5 the enemy team.

A balanced team comp is not 3 supports per team.

ZephyrDrakeFeb 3, 201512 votes

[{quoted}](name=Learn 2 Swim,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1gOEX3i3,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-02-03T21:34:21.602+0000)

A balanced team comp is not 3 supports per team.

and who are you to say what a balanced team comp is?

WooBeeWooFeb 3, 20154 votes

Ive been saying this for literally at least 3 months. ADCs have been super OP for a while now. They are ranged, have mobility and/or cc, lifesteal can out heal a thornmail, build paths are complete illusion (you will always get tons of damage, AS, and crit) so there are no trade offs, they dominate teamfights if you can't do some serious diving, they siege towers, they are hands down the main event of league. Its really crappy (as a jung main) to win or lose most of the time based on how much I babysit the bot lane. If bot is winning yay I can help bot get more ahead and we win if they are losing then I camp and I peel hard and get them some kills in teamfights and yay we can win again. Its pretty stupid

Danica1708Feb 4, 20151 votes

ACTUALLY to out heal the damage of item 3075 , you have to have more than 30% lifesteal and the meta right now is crit, so that doesn't happen. item 3153 gives 10% lifesteal, item 3072 gives 20%, and item 3508 gives 10%. In this crit meta, most ADC's build one of these items, and rarely are they rushed. Realistically, you can't out heal a item 3075 as an ADC in this meta because crit 'is more important' than lifesteal. Most ADC's in this meta rush item 3031 , not lifesteal because it's the supports job to either A. keep them healthy with heals or B. tank the harass so they don't get hit in the first place.

While I do agree that ADC's are rather oppressive in how powerful they are, how do you propose to change it? And not by changing crit. That won't work.

I personally think that % penetration should work on bonus armor/mr and Riot is supposedly working on this (I don't actually know so if anyone could enlighten me on the status of that, that would be great). I think they also need to change the fact that every single ADC since I started playing (right after Vi came out) has some kind of escape mechanic/reliable(ish) cc. Every role has to have some kind of weakness, and ADC's just being squishy clearly isn't cutting it, especially since most of them have some kind of dash. Jinx Kalista Lucian Quinn (I know she's buggy, but if her kit actually worked....) plus the rest of them.... Caitlyn Corki Draven Ezreal Graves Tristana Vayne and kind of Sivir with that furor on everything. Twitch can go stealth (I know it's delayed in combat) The escapes are a bit ridiculous. I think that needs to be touched up a bit. League of Escape Mechanics anyone?

Also, a bit off topic, what is it with all the knock ups with the new champions? They used to be rare....

MaingoSevenFeb 4, 20151 votes

You do have to consider that Thornmail isn't a cut and dry 30% return, there are 2 large things to consider when calculating damage taken VS healing done.

Thornmail's damage is based off of the damage of the auto attack before armor, so stacking armor means you take less damage while the attacker takes the same damage. Thornmail's damage return is magic damage though, this means that if the attacker has a lot of magic resist they will take less damage from thornmail.

This would be a fine system if it wasn't for the fact that while Last whisper penetrates the armor that scales up Thornmail, most tanks/bruisers can't afford/fit spell penetration items to make the damage return on it better.

Danica1708Feb 5, 20151 votes

I know that you have to take into account MR with the damage. Hence why I said what I said. To OUT heal it's damage. Meaning, to heal more than the damage being received from the item. I was also specifically referring to ADC's who generally get item 3026 as their only defensive item, so they generally don't have a lot of MR. Between 80 and 90 depending on runes and masteries if they pick up . I don't know the actualy percentage reduction that would be and I really don't have the time to figure it out, but based on the fact that 30 MR reduces magic damage by about (please correct me if I'm wrong) 40-45% if I remember correctly, and, again if I remember correctly, 200 MR reduces magic damage by about 70% (again, correct me if I'm wrong. Please.) assuming an average of 85 MR with item 3026 for ADC's, that would reduce the damage by about 50%. So, item 3075 reflects 30% of damage dealt from basic attacks before resistances. To make math easy, I'm just going to use 100 damage. I know it's unrealistic, I'm just lazy. So 30 damage would be shot back at the ADC attacking, reduced by 50% from the MR, so they would actually take 15 damage. Taking into account the damage reduction from armor of about 140 (taking into account armor per level and item 3075 that would give approximately 140 unless at really high levels, I'm trying to get an average assuming not level 18 sorry), which I think would reduce damage by about 57% (?) so that's 43 damage they're taking. Healing based on that 43 damage would have to be 34.88% lifesteal to break even. I know the numbers are unrealistic. I'm lazy. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong on the actual percentage reductions. I don't actually know them.

I don't really see how buying more armor makes the damage from item 3075 scale up. It's completely reliant on the damage being taken BEFORE armor is taken into account, not after.

5G8Nri0B54Feb 3, 20153 votes

MissFortune "Sure we are..."

DlGNITYFeb 3, 20153 votes

You're only about 11 months late.

KidSpectreFeb 3, 20153 votes

Ashe "So overpowered." "Rito plz nerf." "No counter play." "Pentas all day, gut her already."

Is this Season 1? I think not.

Mecha MaIphiteFeb 4, 20151 votes

"Muh, manaless champions are super balanced because Shen " "Muh, assassins shouldn't have been nerfed because Diana Talon " "Muh, anti-melee carries are healthy because "

Angry MonsterFeb 4, 20153 votes

your premise is wrong.

Its not that ADCs are strong its that AR is weak. The problem is that AR has slowly been less relevant as time has marched on. Total possible health has also been hit.

ADCs are fine the problem is the defensive system. Man i miss season 2.

SmokingPuffinFeb 4, 20153 votes

Ive seen 5-6 pro games now where they are running the protect the ADC comps with 3 supports.

As long as that is a strategy, and not the strategy, I support it. I want to see real strategic diversity, where teams have different plans for how to win the game and we see those plans face off.

Fitz n The FoolFeb 3, 20152 votes

MF Varus Ashe Twitch are overpowered?

WooBeeWooFeb 3, 20153 votes

no but jinx, lucian, trist, graves, vayne are guess how many ranked games I see MF varus ashe or twitch in? pretty much none.

OperationDEEZ1Feb 4, 20152 votes

Isn't Ezreal a pretty common sight? What about Draven

Malix FarwinFeb 3, 20152 votes

Well not our fault you wanted to "gut the fish" one of the few champs left that could actually deal with ADCs.

PrinceArchieFeb 3, 20152 votes

The only thing that I have to say about ADC's is that their itemization paths are too simple and general. Which route you go honestly only varies if you do % health damage and do better with more speed, or if you're a caster and or semi-caster/Auto Attack adc and build straight damage with one speed item. Their itemization has more to do with making their own strengths shine and becoming overbearing rather than being reactive to a teams build. So in a sense they are inherently powerful and are given more or less free range to ignore any items that may be picked up to be used against them, because there arent many items that are built to go against ADC's. item 3153 will beat item 3083 , item 3075 , and item 3143 . To shut down an ADC who uses BORK you need to look for hard CC or straight burst damage. item 3035 Only makes the problem even worse along with item 3031 , which saw a 5% crit "nerf" but honestly it still works great. To top it off they get more HP than they really should have through item 3072 . The only reason ADC's are so potent is because their items are so gold efficient and there aren't any defensive items that can mitigate their potency. Shutting down adc's can be done of course but to do that you have to do so using powerful champions and coordinated team play. Trying to lessen the effectiveness of damage in game is a lost cause, Damage items>Tank items. Tank items only benefit those who can hard CC, engage and potentially blow up squishies because they have some form of damage behind all that tankiness. Irelia Is one of my favorite examples for this. Only having to build item 3078 and then go full tank (if you're really confident sometimes can also go item 3142 , to compliment Tri even further). She has CC, can engage on the enemy back line and has the power to delete a squishy in a few seconds, while being very tanky.

FalconPawwwwnchFeb 4, 20152 votes

When haven't ADCs been in control again? They've always been mandatory, always been the sole factor end game.

Why are you people pretending it used to be any different? Lol

The class has always been fundamentally broken. Ranged, resourceless, no cooldown, unavoidable nukes that heal on hit and can slow enemies, all while having no drawbacks

SAXAPHONEMANFeb 4, 20152 votes

This is So true now that you merged Assasins you have op adc

SAXAPHONEMANFeb 4, 20153 votes

I ment nerfed

RebonackFeb 4, 20151 votes

Uuuh...

There are three ADCs who are really strong right now, Siv, Jinx, and Graves.

Twitch is still absolute garbage. Quinn is a bug-ridden mess. MF is Assassin-bait with schizophrenic damage. Kog is only good when he has a whole team dedicated to keeping him alive (eg, not in real games). Varus leaves people wondering why they didn't pick Graves instead.

Most everyone else is just fine.

Are we complaining about Crit being broken again? Can we get Crit removed from itemization and replaced with AD yet? I would love a mass Ranger remake that pushes them more toward ranged AD Casters.

blueberrypancakeFeb 4, 20151 votes

U say ADC's are op

ADC Teemo commin though

Great Wolf SifFeb 4, 20151 votes

I can honestly agree that the biggest problem for assassins is ADCs. ADCs may not win in-game vs. them but outside the game where the NERFS ARE REAL, they sure do.

Julius EvolaFeb 4, 20151 votes

Let's all be honest. They, at the same time, nerfed assasins, they also buffed support items and released supports with overloaded kits. Of course you are going to see 4 supports in a game now. It's perfect for a hyper-carry.