Please, revert EVERY Assassin.

Misses Old Talon··6 votes·1,772 views

Please mentally note before reading this that this will NOT be a sob story or some sad assassin player that demands my champion be better.This is a very serious post, meant for serious responses

The current state of assassins is honestly just a joke. Riot's original idea of the assassin reworked sounded VERY good in theory. Allows Assassins to keep their burst, but make it have a delay. Almost like a Zed ult. How ever, shortly after several moments of hypocrisy, and clear favoritism shined through. That, and caving in due to a community that was angry Looking at you Rengar Subreddit! However, I will not lie. If it wasnt for the fact that Riot listened to them back then, I would not be making this post right now. I want this post to actually bring change. Or a lack there of depending on your view. I want this to actually reach Riot, and maybe make them think on it. This is going to be a VERY lengthy read, so please prepare yourself.

Firstly, I want to talk about Talon and Katarina. please note, I have been a Talon OTP Since season 3, and only quit recently this season on him so I will do my best to hide all undeserved Bias. When Talon was reworked, one thing many of the mains asked is if he will keep his Blink, CutThroat (E).

Riot stated that an assassin having access to a blink was very unhealthy, and told us that due to balancing reasons he could not keep it. Bring in Katarina's rework. Now suddenly, it went from one single blink being broken, to Katarina allowing to have a Pseudo-infinite amount of blinks based on not only kills and assists, but on her daggers as well. This was clear Hypocrisy from Riot's part, and left all the old Talon mains/OTP's stranded. Most of which, giving the champ up completely, or even the game.

Beyond the removal of his blink, or the heavy access of Katarinas blink, there still lied a massive problem on them.

Artificial Power. Believe it or not, I'm not talking about Duskblade here, because originally Duskblade was a very balanced item. For those who do not know, it used to apply a Death Mark "Mark Of Death" on an enemy after basic attacking, dealing physical damage based on the enemies missing health after 2.5 seconds. The Artificial power spike I am speaking of, is Talon's bleed and Katarinas daggers. While explaining this in depth is difficult, I think a simplistic explanation is more than enough. First, lets look at Talons bleed.

At rank 1, Talons Q Noxian Deplomacy deals less than 60 damage. If you crit, it can deal around 100 damage depending on starting items. At rank 1, Talons W Rake deals less than 60 damage On the way out but can then hit roughly 100 damage On the way back once again, based on starting items. At level 2, Talons bleed will have a BASE of 85 damage, with a whopping 200% AD SCALING. This means at level 2, bleed can do OVER 150 damage by itself, sometimes even peaking 200 depending on items and rune choices. Do you see the drastic difference in damage? This is a passive that belongs on a bruiser due to it being spell based only (But basic attacks DO refresh the stack timer, even if the game doesnt inform you of this.)This can be said as well for Ekko, but his makes slightly more sense due to his kit being skirmished based.

This is exactly how Katarina's dagger pick up is. Early game, none of her spells do high damage. Q>Bouncing blade base damage at rank1 :75 E>Shunpos base damage at rank 1: 15 Passive/old W>Sinister Steel at level 2: roughly 75 damage. This doesnt look that bad, but then you go to her wiki and find out that her passive has the BEST Scaling in her kit. 100%Bonus AD and 55% to 100% bonus Ap based on level. (Please note Katarinas ult scaling in AP is 15% of ap. the tooltip is just showing the total damage dealt with max blades.)

I could go on for hours with other artificial damage with Talon, but I want to cover every assassin affected by the assassin rework, and I want it to be somewhat neat.

That being said..

Rengar Was soft reverted, over all feels the same as old Rengar with the removal of his Old triple Q, and I do not have enough past Rengar experience to spot the tiny details. Rengar mains, please comment any drastic changes if applicable. I am not trying to spread false info on this champion, I am just inexperienced in him

Leblanc Completely reverted with the acception of her chain being 10X longer than it used to be. Nothing to add.

Akali Received an actual all out rework outside of classification rework. No longer a valid complaint.

Zed His champion playstyle was not changed at all. His only change was losing the 100 bonus flat AD off his W passive and now stealing AD off his ult. Nothing to compare or complain about.

Kha'zix was soft reverted. Only change from rework left is Isolation not dealing massive bonus damage, but granting CDR to him for his Q.

Ekko his kit in its whole was not changed. His passives %hp scaling was tweaked and he was given higher AP ratios.Nothing worth adding.

Fizz This champion has been an abomination since his rework, and all these revert's/secondary reworks have made him worse. His combo originally did not change. R>Q>E>W. Only difference was burst instead of massive DOT. Now with the current changes to him, he is a poor mans version of old Fizz. His bleed is weaker, and hard to notice. Now his W enhances his next 3 basic attacks which he never manages to fluently use. His Q can proc it, but chances are he Q'd in to engage on you. His combo is overly complicated for little to no payout compared to any of the reverted assassins/Akali that were listed above. I feel bad for his mains and OTP's alike. None of his changes since the rework will ever tune him into the same power as the reverted (or Akali) assassins for the amount of effort he has to use.

Shaco What. The. Fuck. Happened. This champion is literally never in an "Okay"state. he is either a pick that will get you reported, or a pick that will make the enemy AFK. His deceive has received a MAJOR buff Transitioning into mid and late game, lasting roughly 4 seconds, but his damage is in an unbalance-able state. He was given both AD and AP Ratios on most if not all his kit. How ever, after AP Shaco was dominating, his AP Scalings were butchered. After dominating as a tank, his AD Scalings and base were nerfed. But not gutted. Then, full assassin dark harvest Shaco came, and Riot nerfed AD Shaco further, before giving up on balancing him entirely. Now, he is souly item and rune reliant, as opposed to his kit being what makes him good. If hes broken, nothing will be done to him. If hes worthless, nothing will be done to him. Shacos problems never stemmed from his scalings, or even most of his kit. His invis needed some form of an actual warning besides a small orange cloud in fog of war. That was it.

Talon While I am not going to go on another topic of Talons kit or balance, I just want to make this apparent to everyone. Since Talon's rework, he has NEVER left a 50% or above winrate. It has ONLY gone up until recently this season. He has an anti-gank, anti-being caught movement ability, making it impossible to deal with him properly. The fact that every other assassin has been reverted, or has never seen the light of day in the Meta just shows how drastic each assassin's changes were between the class. Talon clearly being the only one who had a strong change. Every assassin should be reverted, or none should have been. We now have the reverted assassins back to being able to instantly kill a target without any form of warning (with the exception of Talon who became more unbalance-able after his rework), and the still reworked assassin's who have to pray that they can get 3/0 by 10 minutes just to be useful. And even then, if they do not get a duskblade they wont be strong enough to do their job.

Please Riot. This is a post from an upset Talon OTP since season 3. I have only played assassins since I have started, and have hit Diamond doing so. Please, just listen to my cries for assassin balance. With the current itemization, and current game state, all of the Pre-Rework version of assassins would actually be healthier in the game (besides Zed because his only change was losing an extra 100 AD from a passive.) I beg of you, at the very least put the older versions into PBE, and let them linger for a month. Get feed back on the health of them. Actively fix the game, and actively fix the alienation all of us assassin players have felt for what's going on towards 2 years. That is all I ask.

And please you, the fellow member of the community who has become addicted to this game, leave your honest feed back. do research for yourself and tell me, tell everyone why or why you dont want an Assassin revert, with no Bias. We, as the community need to speak out as one to get the change we feel can fix our game.

9 Comments

ADC Yuumi6 votes

You gotta understand this. If there's no delay between an Assassin's burst; there's no counterplay. I would've agreed with this if Tanks were as they were in Season 6, but now with Lethality and these new Runes taking hold; there wouldn't be a slightest bit of counterplay besides hoping Barrier protects you.

In fact, I'd agree even more if supports were still in the powerful spot; as a unknown burst to them would ruin their team's vitality.

But reverting Assassins to a point when they have no delay between burst? Excuse me?

However, I do miss the days of Tank Ekko being quite a powerhouse pick.

Misses Old Talon2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mega Audinoz,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wueok5VE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-09-02T11:58:49.605+0000)

You gotta understand this. If there's no delay between an Assassin's burst; there's no counterplay. I would've agreed with this if Tanks were as they were in Season 6, but now with Lethality and these new Runes taking hold; there wouldn't be a slightest bit of counterplay besides hoping Barrier protects you.

In fact, I'd agree even more if supports were still in the powerful spot; as a unknown burst to them would ruin their team's vitality.

But reverting Assassins to a point when they have no delay between burst? Excuse me?

However, I do miss the days of Tank Ekko being quite a powerhouse pick.

But that's the thing, these champions were able to be Balanced. Right now, assassins Especially Talon hit powerspikes at random moments, and have significant power creep. Ontop of that, Talon's kit currently is very unstable. 90% Of his damage is loaded into his bleed passive, which dumps its payload within 2 seconds of being proc'd, and now he has an artificial crit into his kit, along with very high base damages after rank 3.

Old assassins, (once again Talon as example here since I know him best) had VERY low bases, even at rank 5 spells. Talon's old rake at rank 5 had a base of 130 for both instances of Rake, with only a 60% AD Scaling. His bleed an even lower scaling, with a slightly higher base which happened over 5 seconds for counterplay. He was not designed to be an oppressive champion, he was very reliant on a players game knowledge, and understanding proper power spikes. Right now, the only issue there would be with an old AD Assassin would be Duskblade, which should honestly just be removed or reverted to its original state. Talons old kill time on someone would be roughly 3 seconds, unless he got a very lucky IE Crit (Because you used to build IE on him as your last item since Ghostblade also gave crit), or if he attacked someone with no armor. Even the slightest bit of armor could make old Talon struggle to properly do his job. All of the AP Assassins with the Exception of Gutter Trash Fizz, and all of the AD assassins were very similar in their kits base damage and scaling design as Talon, with Kha'zix's old Isolation Q being the only exception to this rule for balancing. The older assassins on average had a longer time to kill than the current reworked assassins, and if would not be able to abuse this itemization as easily.

OnlyVelKozOnly4 votes

You spelled remove wrong. It's "please remove EVERY assassin"

Crimson Zeppelin3 votes

Shaco and rengar mains from reddit needed to shut the hell up. Their meddling with affairs caused misery for the expense of EVERYBODY.

Fízz v21 votes

Now with the current changes to him, he is a poor mans version of old Fizz

+1 send help :(

Onandaga1 votes

As a Katarina player it sucks how her rework put her mains into a state of perpetual civil war between those who do and don't like the rework. A rework to an iconic champ should be liked by nearly everyone, a rework that has their mains 50/50 about whether they like it or not is not a successful imo and needs to be reverted or reworked again.

OnlyVelKozOnly2 votes

She used to have clearly defined strengths and weaknesses but her rework just made her dash all over the fucking place so that anyone with a skillshot is just fucked.

Milos Obilic181 votes

Only thing katarina needs is her season 5 W back. So many times i got into situation that low hp enemy in my melee range kill me while i am waiting dagger to fall on the ground.

tisumi1 votes

It's quite weird the Boards always seem to think Katarina is the problem or is a strong champion when the people in high elo seem to disagree as do the ones who play her the most.

For some odd reason everyone seems to think the champ is busted and doesn't have a garbage design and wasn't absolutely destroyed by the e-cast time and nerfs/indirect nerfs.

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Then you remember oh wait, Katarina is a champion designed to destroy those who are terrible/bad at the game. So is everyone who complains about her and her kit, just bad at the game LOL? But in all seriousness, there are so many clips of people blatantly stating the champ is garbage, terrible design, and that she has no good matchups except maybe Veigar, and that she only has matchups she might be able to outplay.

Katarina buffs DO need to happen, and QoL, its a terrible game design to make a champion designed to kill bad players, not reward you for playing good.

I don't believe in a revert, maybe a small look at her numbers, cast times or a revisit on her kit. Her damage is delayed long enough so the enemy knows where she's going.

Its not hard to shut a Katarina down or think "Hey lets not walk into that dagger"

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