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Jungle entitlement.

rtbf211279518··50 votes·3,411 views

Okay, so if you pick a lane in which you're doing relatively well in, and then die, then blame the jungler for not ganking, what gives you the right to go into my jungle and take buffs and creeps without asking? I didn't see you call the jungle AND toplane? Last I recall, you called TOP. NOT THE JUNGLE. Therefor, putting me behind by taking my jungle creeps is not helping anyone, because now TWO people are behind. YOU AND ME. If you want buffs just ASK. If we junglers say no, then deal with it! You're not entitled to shit in my jungle! IT'S MY JUNGLE. Not OUR jungle, because let's face it dude, I just met you, and even though I like you, I don't like you that much. Mmkay?

Edit: The underlying idea behind this post, was to make it known that people are not entitled to any buffs within my jungle, nor are they allowed to frequently farm it. If you take Gromp once or twice within the span of 15 minutes, that's fine. If you make it your mission to take Gromp every single time it's up, then it's not okay anymore. Edit 2: I get the feeling that the meaning is still not clear, thanks Tisio, so let me make this clear. IF YOU TAKE CAMPS HERE AND THERE TO GET AN EXTRA GOLD BOOST, AS A JUNGLER, THIS IS PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE. HOWEVER, IF YOU CONSISTENTLY CLEAR ONE HALF OF THE JUNGLE, WHICH IS WHERE MOST OF JUNGLER GOLD AND EXP COME FROM, THEN WE HAVE A PROBLEM. Note, this is in caps to make sure people see it. Not yelling, not angry, not trying to make anyone feel bad today. On hindsight, I hope you all do have a good day.

113 Comments

Spacesuit Spiff19 votes

"Entitlement" and all that sounds completely ridiculous when you remember that the point is to win the game, not lose in a way that's consistent with how you think the game should be played. If letting your top laner farm one camp helps win the game, let him do it. If you need that farm, don't let him.

Laners should resist the urge to just take every camp during midgame though, they're just better on the jungler than laners (although if you see someone starting a camp ffs just let them finish it, I've had my Blitzcrank go afk because I smited the wolves he was poaching and that's just not worth). Nothing wrong with letting the laners have the small creeps, but when they use their skills to burst down the big ones and leave the small ones for the jungler that's just stupid.

Jingerbeardman3 votes

what this guy said.

rtbf2112795181 votes

That guy understands :D

BluePolarizer10 votes

if they AFK for a jungler taking a camp that's rightfully theirs, they deserve the loss. I just think of it this way: they'll be leaving this elo soon by dropping, so no big. You can't win them all but you can prove a point - don't fk with me, I don't negotiate with ragers or nerds.

Spacesuit Spiff1 votes

Yeah but someone that childish is going to drop regardless (I swear half the diamond weekend crowd got hypercarried there by the weekend players on the enemy team doing stuff like this), I'd rather not lose unnecessary games when it's +11 - 30 LP, so I let them take as much jungle as they want.

Still, when someone bursts down the big Krug and leaves the little one for the jungler... that's just ridiculous. Just burst down the little one so the jungler gets +30g.

BluePolarizer1 votes

I realize now that playing on weekend daytimes is a fool's errand. You'll just lose LP like crazy due to the boosted guys and the 15 year old ragers. I swear high gold/low plat is pure cancer.

Spacesuit Spiff2 votes

Try doing that while in division 5 of anything. You'll need chemo afterwards.

Even diamond 5. Especially diamond 5.

Occams Raiser1 votes

Its not OK to take jungle camps without permission. Different junglers need their buffs further into the game than others . Laners aren't usually paying attention to whether their jungler is on par with the other jungler. A JG shouldn't have to fight his teammates for gold.

If letting your top laner farm one camp helps win the game, let him do it.

This sentence implies permission was given not forgiveness.

T RexHasLongLegs2 votes

Um, while I want to agree with you for the most part, I kinda struggle to. I hate when JG lets a kill go in lane because "I was trying to let you get it man" and I expect to be taxed if you help kill my lane opponent. I don't care who kills them, I just want exp and farm advantage. At the same time, if I see blue is up in 10 second,you're on the opposite side of the map, and I'm Anivia, you can bet your blue will be gone by the time you get there. Want to still get something out of it, gank my lane and let's kill them now that I can bully them since I'm not worried about my mana.

I definitely think it's about balance though and working as a team. If I see fiddle or amumu locked as jg before my pick, I'm not picking a mid that really wants or needs a blue buff to do well in lane. If I see a poke champ w/ heavy mana costs locked in mid before I jungle, I'm not grabbing someone I really want blue on all game, because unless they are doing bad in lane I should probably give it up or I'm intentionally putting my mid behind by denying something they are pretty dependent on. (In that case I usually lock a counter JG champ and tell my mid to get our blue because I will be getting the enemy's and they better not lose ours to it getting stolen :D)

Occams Raiser2 votes

You have used a bit of thought. And I am assuming this is not early game. I don't jungle, does assist gold make up for blue buff? Is it possible that your jungler isn't confident in counter jungling and he was going to get his blue after he ganked bot and you just threw off his path? All you would need to say is I'm taking blue.

T RexHasLongLegs2 votes

Assist gold probably makes up for jg, assist gold and 2-4 minions of tax (which is win win since dead mid means mid lane gets to shove to turret and we either take turret or my enemy gets denied a wave) is almost definitely worth the trade off for blue. Definitely possible that Jg isn't confident in his ability to counter jg, although I would argue the following two points. One, a good jg will look at their path and be able to adjust on the fly so if I snag your second or third blue, you should be looking at your path when you leave bot lane and realize you need to adjust it now because you weren't at blue when it spawned. (I generally only take second blue if Jg offers it or if I'm doing well in lane and see a chance to take it. IE if I'm 2-0 of a double kill when their jg came mid, I may steal your blue to try and snowball my lane. Then I can help you with invades to make up for it.) Second, if you make a good gank bot and get the kill there are things you can grab that are probably worth giving up your blue buff for, whether that's drag, bot lane tower, or having bot lane help you with invade so you still get blue.

Definitely first blue and probably second are really more useful on the jg though since mid might not have the mobility to roam yet and hasn't pushed down mid tower to shove it out and roam w/out mobility most likely.

rtbf2112795181 votes

You should never let kills go in the lane. NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER. Which is why I don't actually mind when people KS me, because first, at least someone got it, and second, you probably need it more than I do. Also, I really wish more people were like you with champion picks. People just pick what they're good at, regardless of who their team is playing. I'm usually the last person to lock in as a jungler, because I wanna see what other people are using, and how to pick something that will fill whatever niche needs filling.

T RexHasLongLegs2 votes

Well to be fair I play a bunch of heimer which can fit most comps since his ultimate is versatile. Also I can pick him into any jungle on our team bc if I get blue then yay I'm building sorc boots and at 35%cdr, if they need blue the. I build lucidity boots and am perma capped without blue, I just have to manage mana a bit or kill someone with a blue 😄

aaronconlin9 votes

Last game I had a jinx that was 0/5 take Gromp without letting me smite it first when I was playing Nautilus.. I pinged her to fall back, said to stop in chat and she said "the jungle is for everyone at least I didn't take blue or red stop complaining"

...

xaadus creedus7 votes

Its sad that mid laners demand blue buff cause LCS strats. Mid laners aren't entitled to it, its a gift from the jungler if they let them, its not free.

rtbf2112795186 votes

Yet midlaners go and take it without asking, then get upset when we take it. Like, someone literally said to me a while ago, "Hey! Why'd you take my blue buff, I was gonna take it later!" Like, DID YOU CALL JUNGLE?! If not, then it ain't your blue buff!

BluePolarizer2 votes

I smite clear their entire wave if I have rangers on a tank or AOE it if I'm playing Yi or Hecarim. "You took blue which is worth 100 gold on me so I'm gonna take your wave which is worth 100 gold. I didn't even take the buff along with it so calm the fk down nerdo."

GloriousKaiser1 votes

Ok, you're gold and you still have to fight over buff entitlement? Thought it got better.

BluePolarizer3 votes

no it gets worse. Whenever I play with actual golds, there's no fighting over buffs. Its when I get the plat 5 0 LP with deeply negative win rates in my games, and can't dodge, that it gets to be "mid or feed" "no ganks gg" "no blue gg"

rtbf2112795181 votes

Sad that it gets worse. Here I thought that higher ranked players would be more cooperative with their team.

Erockandroll7 votes

Why our Jungle? I mean your gaining solo lane XP and Gold, you can totally push the enemy out of their own Jungle. Oh look, the enemy Jungler ganked bot, you can definitely invade their top side Jungle before they even figure out what went wrong.

[{quoted}](name=xaadus creedus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wrPPOoU3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-04-17T22:11:25.899+0000)

Its sad that mid laners demand blue buff cause LCS strats. Mid laners aren't entitled to it, its a gift from the jungler if they let them, its not free.

While riot claims to balance around all Elos, the LCS, is the Alpha and Omega. The LCS gives blue to the mid lane, so they have to balance mid lane around that. god forbid that Ziggs, Karthus, Xerith, Lux, etc. Can't do squat anymore because they dumped Athene's regen.

GloriousKaiser2 votes

I wouldn't worry about travelling to enemy jungle to take camps in low elo. But it's highly risky in high elo. In mid lane, one ward in the bushes perpendicular to the river can notify your intentions of going somewhere. You could be punished heavily for trying to go to enemy wraiths. Wolves are a tad bit far.

In top lane, I'd say it's ok for laner to kill Krugs, I don't take them often myself. They're inconveniently placed to make jungling a longer route so I try to keep it short.

I'd also say to remember, as a Jungler, you might think you're the shit, but in the end, you're there to help your team win. Just because you don't HAVE to gank, don't HAVE to give buffs, don't HAVE to defend objectives, doesn't mean you shouldn't. Honestly, if it comes down to petty arguments over who wants blue the most, the team might have already lost I'm not saying bendover to your laners every whim, but I'm saying, know why laners do what they do and try to understand the situation of the role you play.

Partholonian3 votes

{quoted}

I'd also say to remember, as a Jungler, you might think you're the shit, but in the end, you're there to help your team win.

So are they. An underfed jungler can't help other lanes, or control river objectives. Counterjungling your own team is not just bm, it's bad for your team's chances of winning too.

Taking a small camp when the jungler is on the complete other side of the map may be ok, because it will probably respawn before they get there anyway, but anything more than that is hurting your teammate more than it is helping yourself (because of machete bonus, and the fact that they have less other sources of income). Therefore, it is hurting your team and you shouldn't do it.

Spacesuit Spiff2 votes

This exactly. A jungler doesn't need all the camps, but they do at least need enough to keey busy between ganks or whatever they're doing.

Occams Raiser2 votes

Let the jungler tell you what he doesn't need. I think most junglers go apeshit over red and blue not wolves.

GloriousKaiser2 votes

I'm trying not to argue extremes here. Lots of things are good, too much of things often ends up bad. Universal thing.

Occams Raiser2 votes

Jungle is = to a laner not a support with respect to gold. He is trying to cs as much as possible. The only difference seems to be he is willing to take assist gold SOMETIMES instead of hogging all the kills. If you start taking his cs when he isn't ready to share for some good reason you are now starving him and you have two supports.

grLKQ9ma0o2 votes

Me when my mid Zed Yasuo Katarina Vladimir demands blue buff and then AFK when they don't get it

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DeloricVI4 votes

I was going to quote someone for this, but I think it would be better to just link the video. All people in lane need to see this video, so they know how to properly treat their jungler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY4iQuZPDqU

If people would just follow the tips in this video, the community might be a bit better.

rtbf2112795181 votes

Take my upvotes too!

Kairya3 votes

I think you have the wrong mindset to play jungle at all...

Aggression is never helpful. You get some insults, bad behaviour thrown at you once in a while, sure. But you are Jungler, because you are flexible enough to deal with it. Because you can keep your calm, and keep your mind on the real objectives in the game.

And of course its the teams jungle, not yours alone. But they will respect your needs, if you treat your laners well.

rtbf2112795181 votes

I don't yell at my team for frequently taking stuff, I sit back and silently deal with it. I made this thread to give my opinion on this after one too many times I've felt like crap for not being able to help my team, because someone decided that the jungle is shared between me and them, even though they are extremely ahead in the lane.

Kairya1 votes

And the Jungle is shared between you and them. Thats just how things are. Just like you get a few lane minions while protecting a turret, they get some of the jungle camps. Especially in the current Tank-Meta it's often not so bad (nor unusual) to be a lvl behind, you can still tank enough damage. Laners always start picking up some camps in the jungle at some point in the game. And if you need those camps then don't deal silently with it. Ask them to leave the Jungle for you at this moment. The team communication centers around the jungler, since he is the only person who is free to go where he is needed. You should be talking to your team a lot (it has the added benefit that people don't feel like you never gank, if you give them some insight on what you are doing all day). Sometimes you really can't gank a lane, but you can still put some wards down, so the enemy can't gank them either. There is a reason why you see more and more sightstones in the Jungler-Builds. Those additional wards often allow you to take a camp or two in the opponents jungle as well, if you have enough vision on their jungle. Add to that Raptors Buff/Pink ward/Spy Lense so you are sure they have no vision on you and go invade.

rtbf2112795181 votes

I feel like you're indirectly saying that I'm not actually good at jungling. My skills as a jungler has absolutely nothing to do with this post. If I'm reading this wrong, then I apologize. If not, then tell me, and I'll come back and reply. However. I think you missed the point of the post entirely, I already know that people come and take jungle creeps after a certain point. At that point, it's no longer my jungle, it's our jungle. You need it, I need it, we both get it. However, what I was talking about, was the frequent farming of my jungle BEFORE said point. After said point, I have no problems! I know you need stuff, come and get it! Let's be honest here, if you're toplane, you can take Gromp every once in a while. Not blue (unless you ask and I approve), or wolves. However, if you make it your mission to take Gromp every time he is up, then that's not okay. Because now you're ahead, and that's great, but I'm behind. Last I checked, your job as a toplaner is not to deplete jungle farm in between farming/winning your lane.

Kairya1 votes

I consider setting up a good communication in your team to be part of a junglers skills. And I have the impression that you might need some work at that. Apart from that I have no idea about your jungler skills.

Your laners usually have no clue if you are behind on farm or not, so unless you tell them. I disagree with the whole "they have to ask for my permisson" thing, because it feels like you consider yourself the big bad lord over the jungle or something. I almost never have your troubles while jungling, and it's mostly me who tells the laners to pick up one of the buffs, because I either don't need them or don't want them to stand around forever, while I am busy with other things.

And I don't really think I missed the point. Your original statement sounded like an enraged jungler, who didn't wait to calm down before writing his thing. And thats where my arguments are pointed.

rtbf2112795181 votes

I don't think you should have to tell laners not to take jungle creeps, it's pretty obvious when people are behind. For instance, if you're a level 5 Warwick trying to gank a level 8 singed, then there is obviously something going wrong, and you should not be taking anything in the jungle until you know for sure they'll be okay. Oh, and the whole, you HAVE to ask, isn't really the best system, it's just what I prefer. Like, if I see you're playing Lux, and if I look at your lane, and you're consistently out of mana, then you're gonna get blue buff without asking. What I was saying was, is that if you really do feel like you need it, then you should at least ask for it before taking. Big bad lord, oh how I wish I was. Sadly, that won't ever be true, because there is practically nothing stopping other people from clearing your jungle while you're dead. Or alive for that matter. I wasn't actually mad when I wrote it, I just felt really sassy that day. Also, in my games, I am talking constantly. Whether it just be side chat, strategy, or just my jungling path, there is always something coming out of my mouth. Here I always felt like, if I have the decency to tell you where I am, what I'm doing, where I'm going next, or what I'm going to do next, you should have the decency to call back to me and say, "Hey big guy, I'm gonna take your red/blue buff" or, "I'm gonna take wolves and krugs for Needlessly Large Rod." It seems like everyone seems to assume that person A knows what person B needs, regardless of whether or not anything has been said.

On a side note however, someone did yell at me for talking too much. I think his exact words were, "Dude, why are you writing a damn novel in the chat, just get Randuins or whatever and shut up."

IcyPepper2 votes

Before the inevitable minion tax deal: it's not like laners gank the jungle (usually). The tax is for the ganking service, and only done if someone's flash or heal is burned or they die and the laner gets the kill. Otherwise, back to the jungle.

Spoinet2 votes

Sky? Is dat u?

GenWaltz2 votes

Here's what usually happens, jungler gets invaded and pings, and god forbid if everyone on your team doesn't come to their help, cause they usually rage, claim they'll never gank any lane and just farm the rest of the game right after they're done calling the entire team shit.

You get dove under your turret top lane while jungler is right there clearing his gromp/golems camp, but he'll refuse to break off and help, they usually finish their camp, call you out for feeding, then proceed to move to your lane and push it out just enough the wave ends up freezing on the other turret so you get absolutely nothing even when you get back.

Happens more times than I'm willing to admit, and it's very frustrating no matter what.

T RexHasLongLegs2 votes

I'm totally down with this..... If we can agree that you stop coming to top lane side asking for a leash when I play Heimer. Some champs (I'm sure heimer isn't the only one) need the early exp in lane (or in heim's case to set up turrets in lane if I'm not taking a camp a lvl 1 since it will respawn by the time you get there) to abuse level advantage and trade early. If you main jg learn which champs are going to be hurt more in lane if they give you a good leash and go bot lane where the support can help out or support and adc can drop some burst and give the same strength of leash while getting to lane sooner than I can waddling my fat yorddle butt back up top.

I'm totally down to build CDR boots instead of getting blue if I want the extra CDR, but if I can't steal a camp to catch back up, you better be self sufficient in the Jg and such. (Honestly it's funny, I have grabbed more enemy blues than ours recently as mid because I can CDR cap and manage my mana well, and if the JG isn't bad I'd rather them have the advantage to gank and farm faster w/ blue)

Sirsir2 votes
  1. Never take Gromp from a tank jungler
  2. First 3 buffs (minimum) belong to the jungler. He may give you second+ blue if he wishes, and if both of you wants a buff you better hope he misses smite.
  3. If you don't have a positive KDA you get no buffs. Period.
  4. Xerath never gets red, I don't care if it gets you your Rabadons
  5. After 20-25 minutes the main camps (gromp excepted in the case of tanks) don't belong to the jungler anymore.
rtbf2112795181 votes

Why can't more people be like you? How hard is it to get this?

9kPluzZ1 votes

Your stupid Kid. How is the Jungler yours just because your jungler. Theres nothing wrong with a laner taking a camp or two if your not there when it spawns, its a teamgame. Thats like saying oh these lanes are mine, and if you kill my laner your taking my sh1t.

Occams Raiser8 votes

Three things wrong. Four sentences. I'm impressed.

rtbf2112795182 votes

Your English is bad, and your ideas are flawed, either go back to school, or come up with a coherent thought.

9kPluzZ1 votes

my english is bad? Plz explain. Im 2nd year college english major....

rtbf2112795181 votes

You're a 2nd year English college major? Yet you can't use the correct "You're" which people should've learned back somewhere in Elementary? Second, you used the wrong noun in your second sentence. It should probably have said,"How is the jungle yours just because you're the jungler?" Your entire paragraph also lacks any apostrophes. Oh, and you can throw around that you're an English college major, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you're passing that class.

9kPluzZ1 votes

[deleted]

rtbf2112795181 votes

You know, that fact that you assume everyone is lower than you, in both age or mentality, is rather quite sad. Also, I'm not trying to insult you, you came onto my thread and posting absolutely nothing useful towards the topic, and whilst doing so, insulted me. I am just responding in kind. In all honesty, I think you're the insecure one, trying to veer the argument over to me while conveniently dodging all of your mistakes with the old, "I'm much older than you are, and therefore smarter" excuse. Oh, you can say you're passing your classes all you want. There's no proof, or validity towards your statement.

I mean, unless you can't understand anything I just said because you think I'm a butt turd, or whatever kind of insult you think that is. Oh, and by the way, if you really are an English major, maybe you should practice grammar and typing skills not only in the classroom, but in real life as well. You sure as hell won't find a job with an application that looks like the few paragraphs you've already written.

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