Lets give someone who screwed up and is about to be punished a 10 sec mobile zhonya.

2yordles1cupcake·Oct 24, 2015·34 votes·2,171 views

Whose idea was it to not only give tahm bonus movement speed, but also give him a shield while encouraging him to simply stack hp?

66 Comments

LuggOct 24, 201513 votes

Tahm is so broken at this point he really does need to be gutted. He is probably the strongest champ in the game right now. He can win games single handed just by preventing kills or devouring the enemy.

YumaS2AstralOct 24, 201513 votes

{quoted}

Tahm is so broken at this point he really does need to be gutted. He is probably the strongest champ in the game right now. He can win games single handed just by preventing kills or devouring the enemy.

To be honest, it is difficult for Tahm Kench to carry on its own. He is really reliant on teammates. If they are behind or if they are fighting with each other and being toxic, don't expect to have a great chance to win with Tahm Kench. His damage is really high when compared to other tanks but is still not assassin level. It doesn't matter if he can prevent a teammate from being killed if that teammate cannot make a great impact during a teamfight or if he has really poor teamfighting coordination.

Champions like Tahm Kench tend to have poor results at SoloQ, but be incredibly powerful at competitive battles.

LuggOct 24, 201516 votes

I don't disagree with you, but the ability to prevent a kill is a huge advantage. That's why champs like TK, Thresh, and Kalista are so strong. It can prevent a snowball from happening and let your team back in it.

Plus, the amount of damage TK does as a support is just stupid.

TahmKench ExpertOct 25, 20151 votes

Sarcasm(Because snowball champs shouldn't be stopped. I mean, they're so weak!)

LuggOct 25, 20152 votes

Snowballing is fine, but it's WAY too easy on some champs. Talon and Kat can literally snowball on one kill. It's ridiculous.

Voluug13Oct 25, 20153 votes

Riven

SinlaireOct 24, 20152 votes

Leona Braum Thresh Nami Janna Taric

yeah. because supports that cant carry out a game and require team work are super rare.

Silents429Oct 24, 20156 votes

Bullshit Tahm is not carrying any game.

LuggOct 24, 20153 votes

I'm guessing that you are one of those people that bases carrying purely on kills.

Silents429Oct 24, 20154 votes

No I base it on a champions ability to keep the tide in your teams favor, in the case of Tahm he relies on his team to accomplish things, therfore he is not a carry.

LuggOct 24, 20153 votes

I think you are looking at it from the wrong angle. TK creates the opportunities for his team and takes away from the other team. That is a huge swing in winning games.

NarasimhaOct 25, 20151 votes

That's... literally a support. A carry is defined by HIS ability to make a difference, whereas a support is one who enables the carries to make that difference.

LuggOct 25, 20151 votes

So which is more important, the one who enables or the one who completes? I would say the enabler because you can't complete something without a start.

NarasimhaOct 25, 20151 votes

Still the one who finishes, because he has to start AND finish. The other guy only gives him nudges in the right direction.

BlitzidiousOct 24, 20151 votes

Silent is implying the Tahm is too stong of an enabler for those that can carry, and, from what I read, too strong as a Disabler against enemy carries. Tahm is incapable of carrying by himself, simple, but can he make others carry? Hell yes.

LuggOct 24, 20153 votes

Enabling is carrying. That's why the last two MVPs at Worlds were both supports.

kile147Oct 25, 20153 votes

He has a sub 50% win rate in every position. Tahm jungle is the only one who has any sort of disturbing stats (55% winrate among people with 100+ games with him) but even then there are other champs who are far more powerful. I would definitely say that he could use some power redistribution in order to be less oppressive in situations where he is strong, but he certainly doesn't need straight up nerfs. He just feels very strong when you have a teamcomp that relies on single target burst and picks (him and Kindred together make catching someone out and assassinating them basically impossible).

LuggOct 25, 20151 votes

Tahm is strong at every position with 15+ games on him. The lowest win rate is 53%. So the win rate definitely isn't low.

His biggest problem is that he completely counters pick comps by himself. His W and E abilities are incredibly OP. They need to increase the CD or lower the damage on W. His E needs to be seriously nerfed. He regens way to much health with it. He may actually be the tankiest champ in the game right now.

kile147Oct 25, 20151 votes

A list of of supports who have a similar win rate with 15+ games: Nautilus , Soraka , Blitzcrank , , Shen , and probably a couple more as well. While the value is deflated due to his largely unskilled playerbase, Tahm has the 3rd lowest win rate as a support in the game, with only Kennan and Nunu being worse. (champion.gg needs a certain amount of games played with the champion to be considered relevant data so anything with less than a .25% pick rate isn't counted)

LuggOct 25, 20151 votes

I agree with you that all those supports are very strong. However, TK is the newest champion of that list and people are still learning what he is capable of. So his ceiling hasn't even been reached yet.

kile147Oct 25, 20151 votes

As I said, the number is deflated due to a unskilled playerbase. I don't disagree that Tahm is a potentially powerful pick, but everyone is calling for hard nerfs on a champ that is realistically not that much stronger than average. He certainly doesn't need gutted as the original comment I responded to suggested, because the data shows he doesn't single handedly win games (or always even help his team win for that matter) and he certainly is not the strongest champ in the game right now.

LuggOct 25, 20151 votes

He is definitely the strongest support right now and the support role is very strong.

The fact that he can save a sure kill by the enemy team alone is mammoth. Add onto it that he can do INSANE damage and is probably the hardest champion to kill outside of Alistar.

kile147Oct 25, 20151 votes

Brand support has an average win rate of 54%. His win rate by games played starts at 52% and goes up to 60% after 125+ games played. That is the kinda stats that Tahm has to compete with in order to be considered the strongest support. He's not even the strongest peel support, since Janna has a higher win rate at every skill level and a higher overall average with a 5% higher pick rate. If your problem is his tankiness then Nautilus is a tanky support with a higher win rate across the board at every level (starts at 51% first time playing him and goes up from there).

Tahm does a fair amount of damage and is very tanky, but what I'm trying to show you is that despite those strengths his weaknesses are glaring enough that he still isn't the best support.

LuggOct 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Tahm does a fair amount of damage

32% of the enemies total health PLUS and AP ratio is a fair amount? What are you smoking.

Anyway, TK has been played almost three times as much as Brand, Janna, and Naut combined. Gee, doesn't sound like they are better, otherwise the pros would pick them more.

SaiannaOct 25, 20151 votes

Winrate alone only shows how stupid someone is to use it as argument.

Combine it with pick rates.

kile147Oct 25, 20151 votes

Average win rate alone is not very useful I agree. But win rates based on games played are fine on their own, and as I said the only figure in all of his stats that seems unusually high is his jungle winrate reaching 55% after a good number of games with him. His support win rate never goes above 53% at any skill level and his top lane win rate caps at 52% after 125+ games. I left that all out because I thought it would be implied when I said the only number that stood out was his jungle win rate. FYI though he is the 8th most picked support with a 9% pick rate (8% being average) and a below average pick rate in jungle and top.

SaiannaOct 25, 20151 votes

We all know Tahm should be queued for nerfs, but Riot is slow to act :)

kile147Oct 25, 20151 votes

Why nerf him though? There is nothing in his stats that suggests he is any stronger than the other popular picks right now. Realistically the only reason you would nerf him is the same reason you nerf Riven, he is anti-fun to play against. If that's the case, and damage and tankiness on a single champion is considered anti-fun then shouldn't Darius be nerfed first?

Edit: I don't disagree he could use some tweaks, but I'm pointing out that Riot is slow to act because it's hard to pin down what to change when most of the data suggests he isn't even that strong.

SaiannaOct 25, 20151 votes

Maybe you are right...?

Well, Imo his shield is too strong. At least if we were to compare to ther shield-abilities.

DrCyanideOct 24, 201511 votes

And everyone that has played Tahm Kench knows it's not a Zhonyas. Sad day when allies plop out of your mouth dead.

MelledoneusOct 25, 20151 votes

Vayne "Save me, Tahm!" TahmKench "Sure, thing, my dear!" Tahm carries Vayne out of danger : We made it. You alright? Dead Vayne : No! WHAT HAVE I DONE?!? I'M A MONSTER! Riven : Dude, they're taking inhib. Stfu and defend.

Count ZubatOct 24, 201510 votes

My biggest problem with Tahm's ally devour is movement speed buff he gets It's like, what the fuck? He already is a walking zhonya + QSS for his ally, why should he be able to quickly reposition? Oh, and why stunning with Q doesn't consume stacks? And is it me, or was his ult inspired by interaction with Kalista's ult allowing her to TP with ulted ally? It's like, somebody looked at that trick and said "let's give that to new Champion, but he can tp wherever he wants without need of having tower or ward in range". And the fact that he was overbuffed doesn't help. Riot shouldn't have buffed him, his win rate was abysmal after release because:

Nobody knew how to play him.
A lot of trolls played him. When will Riot learn to not buff just released champion, but rather wait for win rate to stabilize. Wait at least 2 patches (unless it really very, very bad). They made the same mistake with Gnar and Kalista.

Dar RaksadaOct 25, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord of Iwul,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wplPpn7G,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-10-24T17:44:46.285+0000)

My biggest problem with Tahm's ally devour is movement speed buff he gets It's like, what the fuck? He already is a walking zhonya + QSS for his ally, why should he be able to quickly reposition? Oh, and why stunning with Q doesn't consume stacks? And is it me, or was his ult inspired by interaction with Kalista's ult allowing her to TP with ulted ally? It's like, somebody looked at that trick and said "let's give that to new Champion, but he can tp wherever he wants without need of having tower or ward in range". And the fact that he was overbuffed doesn't help. Riot shouldn't have buffed him, his win rate was abysmal after release because:

Nobody knew how to play him.

A lot of trolls played him. When will Riot learn to not buff just released champion, but rather wait for win rate to stabilize. Wait at least 2 patches (unless it really very, very bad). They made the same mistake with Gnar and Kalista.

what happens if he ults with a kalista that ulted someone? Epic 3man tp?

That could be so cool, tahm's ult making kalista + thresh tp while someone else clicks lamp at the last possible second, sudden 4man tp.

Starfish HOct 25, 20151 votes

Are you really complaining about his ult teleport? I mean look at these guys Pantheon Massive AOE Ult that slows as well. TwistedFate An ult that gives vision of the whole team and he can tele to them or anywhere. RekSai It's not "anywhere" but it is spooky. (First week when I heard it I nearly shat myself"

I mean why complain about his ult at least you could have talked about his massive shield then there could have been an argument.

Count ZubatOct 25, 20151 votes

can't give someone a piggyback and jump with him. TwistedFate can't hold someone's hand so that person teleports with him. RekSai can't take somebody on her back and transport that person to his tunnel. I know, these ults have some cool effects, like Pantheon's one deals damage, TF's reveals enemies, Rek'Sai's can transport herself anywhere where she has tunnel, but Tahm's ability to transport somebody with him is imo the strongest of all 4.

Starfish HOct 26, 20151 votes

It really is more of a "if" thing. Tahm is useful but if you don't have vision it can really screw up flanks and ganks. Same could be said with Pantheon but usefully he can take one down with him before he goes But Tahm requires pre planning and very good timing unless you ADC is more fed than a morbidly Obese man in an all you can eat free buffet it's not going to work out so well.

Guyy FieriOct 24, 20157 votes

Tahm is the newest disengage support, plain and simple...the new Janna if you will. His job is exactly as you said, protect his carries and keep them dying. His hard engage really isn't that great as his abyssal voyage has no CC built in so it relies on other cool downs to be considered a hard engage and in order to reach his, single target stun (as opposed to the AOE stuns on some champs) he has to work towards reaching his 3-hit passive, which simply takes too long. I don't understand what all the fuss is about. My guess is you continue to blow important cool downs on champions that he just devoures and runs away with. If that's the case, just change you play style. Use vision and try for picks on the opposite side of the map from TK. If they are grouped, try to bait out the devour with some less pivotal cool downs so that once devour is used, you can unleash on your target.

TahmKench ExpertOct 25, 20152 votes

It's like the people who make these posts never played the game before. Tahm is balanced, but that didn't stop people from saying he's broken because his W has such shock factor (as 80% of his power is dumped into one spell).

MelledoneusOct 25, 20153 votes

It's his damage people usually have a problem with. Devour is just annoying to deal with, and is the subject of a lot of complaints.

Guyy FieriOct 25, 20151 votes

except the op is arguing that because of devour, hes broken...plenty of supports have decent damage, why is so bad for tahm to get some?

ChargeItDownMidOct 24, 20153 votes

[deleted]

fééd l0rdOct 24, 201512 votes

vladimir is easier to kill and support vladimir is not able to 1v1 the adc.

Excitidly InsaneOct 24, 20151 votes

summoner 14

Count ZubatOct 24, 20158 votes

His pool lasts 2 seconds not 6. He also has abysmal early game. Doesn't have stun, and percentage damage and TF ult that allows to transport your ally with you. Vlad brings only damage for the team, a lot, but only damage. Tahm brings damage that is super high even when he builds full tank, hard CC, one of the best peeling spells and ult.

SinlaireOct 24, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord of Iwul,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wplPpn7G,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2015-10-24T17:47:48.602+0000) Tahm brings damage that is super high even when he builds full tank, hard CC, one of the best peeling spells and ult.

*especially when he builds full tank. some of his damage scales on his max HP.

DorkunedAurasOct 25, 20151 votes

All his everything has max hp scaling thx to his ult passive

EedatOct 24, 20152 votes

Vlad has had that for years now. On top of getting free hp from ap and tons of healing whenever he casts.

LOL WHAT? Tons of healing whenever he cast? You realize his W and E cost health right?

Guyy FieriOct 24, 20151 votes

He was meaning once spell vamp is built...early game, you are right. It after WOTA or Gunblade, the heal is real

BiBoX2Oct 26, 20151 votes

The W cost of Vlad is too much , they can buff this to make Vlad reaching 50% win-rate. Meanwhile Fizz's E has 800 range, can pass wall and is at half the CD!

BiBoX2Oct 26, 20151 votes

The W cost of Vlad is too much , they can buff this to make Vlad reaching 50% win-rate. Meanwhile Fizz's E has 800 range, can pass wall and is at half the CD!