http://i.imgur.com/26tCDfy.jpg http://i.imgur.com/8Hank1Z.png http://i.imgur.com/B9zaU4W.jpg http://i.imgur.com/8Hank1Z.png http://i.imgur.com/ogdTKgY.jpg http://i.imgur.com/8Hank1Z.png http://i.imgur.com/WI1caQN.jpg http://i.imgur.com/8Hank1Z.png http://i.imgur.com/BbYLVDu.jpg
But yeah, lets nerf Hecarim.
Erdamon156 votesAnd then you realize that he has 7 other abillities on top of that
ADepressedLeona157 votes[{quoted}](name=Painis Cupcake,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t1AqfEKI,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-12-01T15:51:02.581+0000)
And then you realize that he has 7 other abillities on top of that
http://blog.sysomos.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/weight-loss-coffee.jpg
Rew71115 votesHe's blind and yet he can run at 350 MS while Anavia can only fly at 325 MS.
KONO RUBICK DA10 votes[{quoted}](name=Snowy Poro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t1AqfEKI,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-12-01T16:03:16.803+0000)
http://blog.sysomos.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/weight-loss-coffee.jpg
his ulti also has 2 mini stuns
hahahahhahhahahahahhahahahahahaha
Meep Man12 votes*6 abilities that deal 1/2 of what a usual ability does on average.
Pierce The Veal75 votes[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t1AqfEKI,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2015-12-01T16:47:23.810+0000)
*6 abilities that deal 1/2 of what a usual ability does on average.
The first part of his q deals 50/80/110/140/170 +90% bonus ad. Pretty standard damage for an ability. http://blog.sysomos.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/weight-loss-coffee.jpg The second part has the same base damage + another 90% bonus AD scaling + 8% of the target's missing health. AND IT'S A DASH.
His e is an aoe 60/95/130/165/200 +100% bonus ad oh and it gives true sight. And then reactivation gives a 60% slow.
http://blog.sysomos.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/weight-loss-coffee.jpg
His w is half a barrier and is a dash. And reactivating it gives 5/10/15/20/25% lifesteal AND spellvamp.
http://blog.sysomos.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/weight-loss-coffee.jpg
His ult can nuke an entire team while knocking them all up.
coevke3 votesBut it's hard to 5 man ult. And if he's full AD he's fucked anyway cuz he gets CC'ed. Edit: He is overloaded. His ult is broken af. But 5 man ult's rarely happen. That is all I meant to say.
Spizzle900028 votesxD It's hard to five man ult with pretty much ANY champion, and Lee Sin is definitely much easier to do because plenty of teams tend to clump together.
Unless the other team has point and click CC, he hardly has to worry because he has some of the best mobility in the entire game.
Fjiordor9 votesThe 5 man ult is easy 
[slayer-jinx-wink]
Bisaknosp30 votesHis e is an aoe 60/95/130/165/200 +100% bonus ad oh and it gives true sight. And then reactivation gives a 60% slow.
http://blog.sysomos.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/weight-loss-coffee.jpg
his e also deals magic damage
Meep Man4 votesFind me a single ability in the game that deals 50/80/110/140/170 (+90% bonus AD) physical damage and reveals a target only. Thats it. Nothing more. The only other one that does that is Rek'sai, who ALSO has six abilities and an ultimate. While you are doing that, find me an ability that ONLY deals 60/95/130/165/200 (+100% bonus AD) and give true sight. You can't because no ability such as that exists.
I am implying his three abilities are just six 1/2 abilities that make make three abilities. He was implying he had SEVEN full, basic abilities and an ultimate.
Pierce The Veal14 votes[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t1AqfEKI,comment-id=0002000100010003,timestamp=2015-12-01T23:12:18.207+0000)
Find me a single ability in the game that deals 50/80/110/140/170 (+90% bonus AD) physical damage and reveals a target only. Thats it. Nothing more. The only other one that does that is Rek'sai, who ALSO has six abilities and an ultimate. While you are doing that, find me an ability that ONLY deals 60/95/130/165/200 (+100% bonus AD) and give true sight. You can't because no ability such as that exists.
I am implying his three abilities are just six 1/2 abilities that make make three abilities. He was implying he had SEVEN full, basic abilities and an ultimate.
Diana e is a glorified slow on a 20 second cooldown.
Braum has lee sin's w but can't dash to wards. Sure he gets bonus defenses, but lee gets barrier (better for junglers).
His q does more damage than a regular panth q, ezreal q, irelia q, and many others. Mundo's doesn't even scale with ad, and you have to listen for the thunk, it doesn't suddenly make the enemy champ targetable.
HOW MANY OTHER CHAMPIONS HAVE TRUE SIGHT. IN AN AOE. WHILE DEALING DAMAGE. A GOOD AMOUNT OF IT.
One round of lee sin's spells deals 480% of bonus Ad + 8% of missing health + 1140 + potentially bonus % health damage. His abilities are spammable, and no other energy champion has as good of an energy mechanic as him.
http://blog.sysomos.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/weight-loss-coffee.jpg
He has cc, mobility, steroids, and low cooldowns on top of the damage, all for the cheap price of 4800 ip.
Jbels86 votesLee Sin mains will still defend their champ though. He has a skillshot, therefore he's not OP!
NeuroosiKettu61 votesExactly! Muh mechonics, muh bigplays. 
The Oasis31 votesHe has plenty of counterplay. Just dodge his pinkward.
SlytherinUmbreon11 votesDaily reminder that Pink wards are point and Click, op no counterplay.
Meep Man28 votesThis is the only Lee Sin complaint I can agree with. Having a skill shot doesnt make your champion hard to play.
Jbels13 votes[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t1AqfEKI,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2015-12-01T17:25:25.928+0000)
This is the only Lee Sin complaint I can agree with. Having a skill shot doesnt make your champion hard to play.
and I've noticed a few times that some Lee Sins will just walk right up to you and just Q you point blank, and then they will proceed to either burst you down, or flash kick you into his team, which he will then fly back into because he pointblank Q'ed you
My Waifu Vanilla5 votesThats like when people justified pre-nerf Morgana Q. Yeah its slow af but it still rooted for the 2.5 seconds if I flashed on top of you.....or slowed you with ult....or stunned you with ult.
VentusDragoon58 votesUpvoting just for the Billy Mays.
Ralanr6 votesRIP Billy.
Meep Man57 votesWe've went full circle back to the Lee Sin complaining guys!
Remlap12237 votesWhat year is it?
Pierce The Veal38 votes[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t1AqfEKI,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-12-01T16:49:27.100+0000)
We've went full circle back to the Lee Sin complaining guys!
Let's be fairly honest, being able to deal more damage to the adc by hitting a tank is sort of ridiculous pffft.
Remlap122317 votesDon't get me wrong, none of what the boards have complained about has been completely wrong, and in fact in lots of cases some of what they said has some merit, but they take it to ridiculous extremes.
Yes, Vayne, Lee Sin, and Riven were all overtuned. However, they were not instant wins that had zero counterplay.
Pierce The Veal11 votesDon't get me wrong, none of what the boards have complained about has been completely wrong, and in fact in lots of cases some of what they said has some merit, but they take it to ridiculous extremes.
Yes, Vayne, Lee Sin, and Riven were all overtuned. However, they were not instant wins that had zero counterplay.
That is true, I agree. I think the real hatred towards them is caused because Riot seems to have some sort of bias for them, wherein they seem to only really focus on keeping them playable, but don't seem to care if non LCS champs are unviable.
Rozzeta19 votesI don't remember it ever stopping. Just being overshadowed by Yasuo's.
ModCaptainMårvelous32 votesThe main problem with Lee is that his skill floor is so laughably low that almost anyone can pick him up and still play him competently.
Read: COMPETENTLY. Not being a god-tier ward-hopping monster. If Lee can land Q, he's going to be a threat in some fashion. Compare this to the poster-child of QQ on the boards, Yasuo. You can see a bad Yasuo and he's a drain on your team. A bad Illaoi will do horribly and maybe irk out one good teamfight. A crap Vayne will get blown up the moment she tries to make a play.
But a bad Lee? He'll still be a problem at all stages of the game. At all times.
Gregor Gysi6 votesBut a bad Lee? He'll still be a problem at all stages of the game. At all times.
Lee players with 1-5 rankeds on Lee: 42% winrate Lee players with 125+ rankeds on Lee: 51% winrate
You compared him to Vayne (50-55% winrate) and Yasuo (41-50% winrate). Vayne is way less skill reliant than Lee Sin and Yasuo is probably equal to Lee Sin in terms of skill reliancy. Your subjective impression is flawed.
ModCaptainMårvelous10 votesHe's still a pain in the ass and has been decent since the hotfix of his release. Vayne has gone through periods where she's either niche or meh. Yasuo has gone through periods of being meh, mostly after the several nerfs he's gotten.
Pray tell, when has Lee -ever- been bad? When has Lee ever had a stage where he isn't a first-or-fallback pick?
Also, you're using win-rates on Vayne when ADC items got a significant overhaul and two of them (RFC and Shiv) now work amazingly on her. You're using Yasuo win-rates when he was in a much lower spot before Riot went ahead with Warlord's Bloodlust.
Lao Fu the Tiger2 votesDuring release Cinderhulk.
ModCaptainMårvelous12 votesMy mistake. Lee was bad for a single patch.
fééd l0rd4 votesMy mistake. Lee was bad for a single patch.
why should he be bad? shouldn't others be just good too?
the boards in a nutshell. XY was never bad, others are bad. let's make XY bad!
ModCaptainMårvelous10 votesExcept this isn't "Let's make Lee Bad" I'm arguing "Let's make lee sin more niche than his jack of all trades and master of 2-3 things"
Is it really, really so difficult to make Lee a character who excels in only CERTAIN areas? Is it really a death sentence to ask for Lee to be bad in some circumstances rather than a fallback pick for every single meta, save for the one cinderhulk patch?
Refusing to acknowledge picks like this as being problematic is why shit like Thresh happens and pro play/ranked play is stale as fuck.
fééd l0rd5 votesExcept this isn't "Let's make Lee Bad" I'm arguing "Let's make lee sin more niche than his jack of all trades and master of 2-3 things"
Is it really, really so difficult to make Lee a character who excels in only CERTAIN areas? Is it really a death sentence to ask for Lee to be bad in some circumstances rather than a fallback pick for every single meta, save for the one cinderhulk patch?
Refusing to acknowledge picks like this as being problematic is why shit like Thresh happens and pro play/ranked play is stale as fuck.
Lee Sin is overloaded I agree. But this does not make him overpowered YOU have to agree. If you list all his abilities it sounds hella op but even if played right there is enough counterplay. If he would be absolutly broken he would have been 100% pick or ban at worlds. Elise was if I remember right. Lee is garbage in the lategame, either he is a tank and deals little to no damage or he goes full ad, blows someone up and is dead right afterwards. He needs this kit to be succesfull. IMO you could take away his spellvamp or something but everything else he needs to be useful.
At this moment the whole map is full of vision, you can see his ganks coming so you can prevent him from snowballing. If you don't why shouldn't he be allowed to annihilate you? Lee has tons of counterplay but you just don't see it. Ward in the earlygame, survive lane (if you don't, don't cry), positioning (if you get kicked by Lee into his team you deserved this, same goes for flash tibbers or similiar mechanics), build armor, build armor, build armor and there is damage goes.
ModCaptainMårvelous6 votesThe thing is I never once said "Lee Sin is broken" or that Lee's kit is so hilariously overturned that he can warp any game he's in. Rather, my problem is that he's able to consistently be a good and/or decent pick in every meta save for (apparently) the tank meta on top of not being incredibly difficult to play for the utility he offers. Read: To play. Not to be the best, not to be god tier, just to play at such a level that you can be an asset to your team.
And no, Lee's ganks are about just as telegraphed as anyone elses. The only difference he has is that Lee can wardhop across gaps or small spaces to get those different ganks. It's like trying to get a gank from Shaco, you gotta find that tiny puff of red smoke or you're screwed. As for "build armor" and "Ward early"? I'd love to do those but vision is down a lot in the early game and armor as a whole was nerfed pretty handily.
Ionian28 votesCasually doing 1k damage + cc with a 40s cd targeted ability. Satisfying.
CasterGilgamesh17 votesI honestly hate Lee sin I hate him as much as I hate Yasuo and Yi.lee sin shouldn't be able to ward hope same with Kat and jax these are mechanisms that shouldn't exist because they let champions gain more mobility then they should.
Ternt6 votesI honestly hate Lee sin I hate him as much as I hate Yasuo and Yi.lee sin shouldn't be able to ward hope same with Kat and jax these are mechanisms that shouldn't exist because they let champions gain more mobility then they should.
You're so frustrated you forgot how to speak English.
Treyen17 voteslee sin exists, but let's nerf swain
BottleCapster11 votesI dislike Lee Sin as much as the next rambling boards commenter, but I think the biggest thing that irks me about his R is the fact that It has all this power, with No energy cost.
Son Olivia Hye8 votesI dislike Lee Sin as much as the next rambling boards commenter, but I think the biggest thing that irks me about his **R is the fact that It has all this power, with No energy cost. **
^like people noticed that with ekko's ult it had no mana cost then when a lot of people started complaining riot added in mana. WHY CAN'T THEY DO THIS FOR LEE'S ULT?
lolipopevelynn11 votesits prob because lee was originally suppose to be an assassin, but his high bases and ratios allowed him to build tanky aswell. riot never addressed this even tho it was the reason 
and 
and 
and 
and 
were gutted numerous times. all of them were assassins that did too much damage while being tanky.
is a special snowflake tho and riot is too ashamed to even admit that he is.
AkabaneKun10 votesIt's k guys he falls off lategame. http://i.imgur.com/B9zaU4W.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/B9zaU4W.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/B9zaU4W.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/B9zaU4W.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/B9zaU4W.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/B9zaU4W.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/B9zaU4W.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/B9zaU4W.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/B9zaU4W.jpg
FistOfSharkiesha8 votesThe real problem isn't the fact that he has 15 trillion effects in one kit, it's that his early game is disproportionately strong. He's one of the only champions bar Riven that has multiple mobility skills pre-6, and the fact that he has no trouble clearing, can burst most of his damage within 1-2 seconds, and can counterjungle nearly any jungler in the game.
If you want to hit anything, it should be his early clear hp like they hit Jarvan with. Clearing quickly and ganking 3 minutes into the game with max hp on a champion with extremely powerful ganks is too much. That's all they need to do to make him more balanced, make his first 1 or 2 clears slightly more punishing.
Dealth6 votes[deleted]
bobsenbob8 votesI mean...that doesn't actually make hecarim ult sound very op. 1 second fear only in range of where hecarim stops? Not that bad. 100%ap scaling? hecarim doesn't build ap. Damage all enemies in their path? Pretty much every ultimate in the game. The only thing that could actually fool someone into thinking hecarim is op is immunity to cc during the charge. Compare that to lee sin 200% bonus ad scaling one of the highest ad scaling in game, on a point and click ability with already 600 base damage which is also extremely high. Knocks back initial target and knocks up others hit? This would be ok by itself honestly, 1 second knockup isn't anything, though the knock back can allow you to peel and damage enemies at the same time. Deal same damage to any enemies that the initial target hits? Reasonable, aoe damage is fine especially on an ultimate % of the kicked targets bonus hp dealt to targets hit by kicked target? I just dont get why this is needed, if youget hit by the kicked target, you already get knocked up and dealt 600+(200% bonus ad) All in all, many parts of dragons rage are completely ok, but they're put onto 1 single ability that can do everything. This is a targeted skill that does massive damage to a target and any enemies the target hits and applies bonus damage depending on kicked targets bonus hp and kicked target and targets hit by kicked target are dealt uncleansable hard cc
Lithium Rosa3 votesYes Lee has high damage, cc and mobility. He also have a skill floor. There are always more bad lee that can be easily beaten up than the ones who can actually use his full strength
Stars Shaper12 votesHe is a JuggerAssaMarksMageman!
