It's kinda hard to trigger its passive due to short range. The second frustrating thing about this... When one of enemies die during teamfight u will lose bonus armor/resist. So can we increase its range to more appropriate standart or at least make dead bodies of enemy champions to be considered as a viable trigger for armor/resist passive. Right this is is just way way way worse version of pre 7.9 guardian angel.
Rewt34 votes
+ 
= Your ADC just got "Outplayed" by a 1600 true damage ultimate
Ralanr36 votesBecause Riot won't do the sensible thing and make true damage reduced by self damage reduction.
Rewt1 votesor riot could just stop with the fucking health scalings. they arent good for the game. i already see another season 5 on the horizon where tanks out damage ADCs
Ralanr23 votesCho'gath's health scalings are literally the only health scaling true damage ability that make stoneplate a problem. Any other %health damage scaling ability would get reduced by 60%.
Health scaling is more or less fine and isn't even that common. Cho'gath's true damage interaction with stoneplate is the only issue of health scaling abilities out scaling ADCs.
The only tank I know of with a health scaling damage ability is Braum right now. And I don't stoneplate is going to make him out damage an adc.
Who else is there?
Rewt1 votesGnar's Hop, Jarvans Shield, Galios shield, Maokai's sap magic (which is pretty insane currently), actually im not going to name all of them because there are waaaaaay too many to name.
Ralanr7 votesGnar: fair enough. I forgot him.
J4: not a tank.
Galio shield: this is a defensive scaling. I thought you were against offensive health scaling, not defensive.
Maokai: again, this is a defensive scaling.
And the offensive ones don't matter because their damage would be reduced by 60% with the stoneplate active. Making the added health not scale as well with their abilities in the 4 second time frame.
Rewt1 votesim against all HP scalings. always have been. they are fucking stupid
Ralanr18 votesSo even a defensive stat scaling for a defensive ability is dumb?
What? Are people supposed to just build AP if they want better shields? Cause getting defensive stats for offensive stats is just fine and dandy.
Health scalings are fine. They belong in the game.
Erockandroll7 votesSo even a defensive stat scaling for a defensive ability is dumb?
What? Are people supposed to just build AP if they want better shields? Cause getting defensive stats for offensive stats is just fine and dandy.
Health scalings are fine. They belong in the game.
This, though everything in moderation.
Having those defensive shields scaling off of AP, usually comes with lower ratios on offensive abilities, as well as fewer offensive abilities. Which is what makes it a fair trade off.
Like wise, the notion of Tanks and Juggernauts getting more damage just by building HP is an aggravating one. But it can be fair if designed right.
Vectros1 votesGnar: fair enough. I forgot him.
J4: not a tank.
Galio shield: this is a defensive scaling. I thought you were against offensive health scaling, not defensive.
Maokai: again, this is a defensive scaling.
And the offensive ones don't matter because their damage would be reduced by 60% with the stoneplate active. Making the added health not scale as well with their abilities in the 4 second time frame.
Agreed with everything except...
J4: not a tank.
How? He doesn't have good offensive scaling. His combo involves attempting to knock up as many enemies as possible to initiate, then hold targets in place with R. He slows with his shield, and his damage is pretty "meh" for anything that isn't a tank.
So what do you classify him as?
Not that it actually matters for the discussion at hand, since his scaling is on a shield anyways-you're talking about offensive abilities so it's disregarded either way. I'm just wondering what you think he is supposed to be.
Ralanr5 votesRiot categorizes him as a diver.
Vectros1 votesRiot categorizes him as a diver.
Well, I just found what you're talking about-the forum post where they say what each champion is?
Which directly contradicts what the client actually shows; that he's a tank. Divers fall under the fighter category, looks like they have a mix up.
Though to be honest I've seen enough odd labeling (GP support??), I don't put much trust in what they call someone-instead relying on what they actually do.
Ralanr8 votesClient hasn't updated with the new subclasses.
PB4UAME1 votesWhat does J4 bring to a team?
Passive is damage Q is damage and armor shred W is a shield and minor slow E gives attack speed, and damage, can be combo-ed with q to be a gapcloser and knock up R AoE damage + totally-passable terrain
Aside from W, he doesn't have any skills that would resemble a tank. Virtually all of his power budget is spent on AoE damage, good AD ratios, AoE armor shred and an attack speed aura. As such, he falls much closer in line to a form of melee DPS, specifically the diver sub-group.
Let me put it another way if it still doesn't make sense.
Tell me, how does J4 keep his teammates from dying? He kills the people hurting them, or he can't do anything. He has no way to redirect damage, to absorb damage, to give (defensive) utility to his teammates, nor does he have a reliable lockdown or strong AoE hard CCs. In short, he doesn't have the tools to be a tank, he's just not made of tissue paper.
Need Gold 4 Tent1 votesi was a J4 main for the entirety of S3 (or 4, I forgot), and he is very effective at keeping his team from dying if you know what you're doing. He peels very well if you are dedicated to it (as in, not diving the enemy but staying by your carry). W slow can be chained with an easy point-blank EQ knockup which is pretty much impossible to miss, followed by the R if they burn their gap closers to continue their dive.
That being said, diving their priority target probably is more worth it especially since your own ADC would likely have a support on duty already for peels.
NiceTryVi2 votesYou ever seen any J4 ever? There is a reason the community nicknames him Jumpscare Jarvan. He does plenty of damage.
Vectros1 votesYou ever seen any J4 ever? There is a reason the community nicknames him Jumpscare Jarvan. He does plenty of damage.
You mean the build that is effectively full damage, and would blow up pretty fast in a fight, making it so he can't really act as a diver like I said earlier?
I've played plenty of Jarvan myself. I'm not claiming to be a pro or anything, but I used to play him a lot. Any champions damage can become high when you build all AD. Even AP's without any sort of attack speed, AD steroid, etc. become scary when you build full AD.
Use the same build on say, Xin Zhao, and its much scarier. J4 doesn't innately have alot of damage, and if you build him that way you'll be fairly squishy-while not getting the scaling of other champions.
Hence why I'm saying he's not really a diver.
NiceTryVi2 votesExcept for the fact that all the damage items he builds also give him some tank stats, and he can do AoE with CC as well? Jarvan is not nearly as squishy as you are trying to claim.
Need Gold 4 Tent2 voteshe can be played as one, but it's not the most effective way of playing him. he's better off as a fighter leaning more towards the tanky side as opposed to xin who tends to build more damage.
building him full tank with the extra 1 or 2 defense items aren't going to make him last that much longer in a fight while effectively wasting his 1.2 AD and 1.5 AD ratios on his Q and R. They will at least grab a BC usually, then maybe a titanic. the only time you'd want to build full tank is if you are supporting, which is a bit troll already, and cannot afford even that 1 slot for damage because you are getting 
, or if you are behind.
Vectros1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sir HaxaIot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wkKw6zqe,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000010004,timestamp=2017-05-13T07:07:18.232+0000)
he can be played as one, but it's not the most effective way of playing him. he's better off as a fighter leaning more towards the tanky side as opposed to xin who tends to build more damage.
building him full tank with the extra 1 or 2 defense items aren't going to make him last that much longer in a fight while effectively wasting his 1.2 AD and 1.5 AD ratios on his Q and R. They will at least grab a BC usually, then maybe a titanic. the only time you'd want to build full tank is if you are supporting, which is a bit troll already, and cannot afford even that 1 slot for damage because you are getting
To be fair, I never said you shouldn't build any AD on him-I was saying he was classified as a tank and I didn't see why he should be a diver.
It's apparently been too long since I last played him-I was thinking his ratios were .8/1.0, not 1.2/1.5. Maybe I'm thinking of someone else. Which does change my outlook on him some, because that's a pretty hefty difference in damage.
Need Gold 4 Tent2 votesthe way he plays is pretty diver-like. ideally you'd want to land a 3-5 man knockup followed by a R that lumps them together for your team AoE but otherwise, it's usually easier to land your entire load on a squishy to take down 3/4 of their hp, while isolating them for a 1v1, except for the fact that half the champion roster can naturally escape his R with an ability and all of them can with flash.
Spoofghoul3 votesyea the damage reduction would make the abilities deal 20% less damage then normal
except cho but then again he can't reach you anyway
only other champ who can abuse this is darius tio get to hsi 5 passive stacks without dying or spamming ult with it if he already is there
but both can be kited with or without stoned plate
PermabannedGaren4 votesGnar's Hop, Jarvans Shield, Galios shield, Maokai's sap magic (which is pretty insane currently), actually im not going to name all of them because there are waaaaaay too many to name.
So how is the health scaling of purely defensive abilities like J4's shield going to let tanks do more damage than ADCs?
The Yetii Rider1 votesTanks who have % health scaling abilities: 
(E deals % health damage on hit), 
(W deals % health damage point and click, scales based on target's missing health), 
(W deals % health on second hit), Braum and Cho, and I think that's it.
Ralanr3 votesMundo and Volibear aren't tanks but ok.
The Yetii Rider1 votesMundo and Volibear aren't tanks but ok.
That's very true, but both of them could still build Stoneplate and offset the 60% damage reduction somewhat with the spike in max health.
OMGSoAnnoying1 votes has one, and it does damage both based on his hp and enemy remaining hp. Stoneplate balances it out, your bite still does a lot of damage if they're around 1/3 hp or so.
Granted, it's more effective to use right when you charge into the enemy team and flash-flip the adc out from their back line.
Erockandroll27 votesBecause Riot won't do the sensible thing and make true damage reduced by self damage reduction.
They were probably thinking of smite.
They probably didn't want the active of the item, completely ruin the objective securing power that the Jungler has, should the Jungler choose to build the item.
Ralanr18 votesCrap, I didn't consider that.
That makes this much more complicated.
Silverjust1 votesWhat if (when it turns out to be a big problem) they changed Cho's ult to deal magic damage against champions, but with 90% magicpen
Troll for Trump2 votesThat would be unecessarily complicated. If they just wanted his ult to do less damage, they could just nerf the numbers.
They won't, because Cho'gath isn't really a problematic champ. An outdated one, but far from broken
Spacesuit Spiff4 votesThey could always just have smite be immune to all forms of damage reduction, and then do whatever to true damage in general.
macromite3 voteslaw of sphagetti says that this won't actually work.
skyskee0082 votesThey could make smite "pure damage" which is what the laser fountain uses
SpecterVonBaren3 votesThat means you could smite through things like Kayle and Taric's ults though.
abbbez1 votesHm, they could make smite against monster minions etc do pure damage instead of true damage.
LordGeovanni1 votesHow put the exact same thing you had add vs champions tada magic
Anags10 votesCho isn't even that good right now. Also Gargoyle stone plate isn't going to help him reach an adc.
It doesn't prevent slows or cc's. He'd probably still need to blow flash to get to you.
If you complain, can you at least complain about something that is a problem.
And another season 5 on the horizon lol. You must know something no one else does. Because we are about as far from season 5 as possible right now other than Sej being strong.
Bingbongy3 votesLast I checked, tanks aren't supposed to 1-shot adcs lol
Ralanr7 votesTanks don't.
statelesskiller4 votesfull tank cho with that item does
Wimbledofy4 votesfull tank cho won't do any damage with his other abilities though and the only person he will even be able to kill is the adc assuming the adc is by himself or is out of position. Most adcs will die instantly anyways to other champs much quicker without forcing them to burn flash.
statelesskiller2 votesdont need to blow flash if you just land your Q. the knockup and that REALLY oppressive slow is enough they cant escape you. bonus points if the cho has a righteous glory and deadmans. unless the adcs team applies the cc required to keep cho from the adc. you lose the team fight instantly because 4v5 assuming chos team isnt a sack of potatoes
Wimbledofy2 votesnoone's gonna let a chogath walk right up to the adc, it's not very hard to cc someone with the biggest hitbox in the game.
statelesskiller2 votesnow how many ccs does it take to keep a 20k hp chogath from the adc before he dies? now think about that there are also 4 other people you have to keep away from killing your carries. do you keep the pressure on the guy who can literally 1 shot your adc or any carry for that matter. or do you let the adc get 1 shot and fight chos team?
welcome to the choice that a gargoyle stoneplate cho gives you.
Wimbledofy2 votesall it takes is 1 cc otherwise he for sure has to use flash. Even if he literally had 20k hp it wouldn't matter if he can't get close to the adc (well actually he could just press R on a tank if he really had that much hp). And since bork is one of the most common items on adcs right now cho's health will go down pretty fast.
statelesskiller2 votes20k hp cho is ABIT absurd. but he doesnt need 20k to 1 shot the adc. hell at that health no melee champ could walk near him without dieing. or being chunked so much its just not worth it
and it takes abit more then 1 cc. 2 or even three isneeded. keep in mind righteous glory applies a big aoe slow and that his q knockup and again that really oppressive slow afterwards gives him enough pressure to require alot more attention then just 1.
butbork is a issue. but since it does physical damage a randuins and deadmans make it manageable. plus the 80 armor from gargoyle. throw in ninja tabis as well and you get godzilla that just doesnt take damage
now that i think about it. it should be possible for riot to code in reduced true damage with gargoyles. they did it with towers afterall. im willing to say that chogath and darius are abuse cases of this item
