ADC's are once again too strong...

GigglesO·Aug 13, 2017·29 votes·2,044 views

I see them in bot, mid and top, once again... anyone else noticing that they are everywhere?

39 Comments

AirKingNeoAug 13, 20175 votes

ADCs aren't too strong. Assassins and bruisers are just weak compared to literally every other class in the game, and I'd prefer to nerf ADCs, tanks, and mages rather than buff assassins and bruisers into a hard to control balance.

hhaavviikkAug 14, 20173 votes

they have been too strong for quite a long time now really, just look at the fact that these late game monsters have a strong early game, back in season 1/2 you would get shit on by anyone in the early game, now you are the one shitting on almost everyone

BALDG1VEN BOOMERAug 13, 20172 votes

I'm fine with Marksman being played in other roles, but when you have multiple Marksman on a team that just slaughters everything in their path it becomes really hard to focus down one, you either kill one or the other you can't have your cake and eat it too sadly.

MizayaAug 13, 20172 votes

Hmm, let's look at popularity statistics.

For top lane, we have Quinn as the 43rd most popular pick, with a pick rate of 1.1%. Anything else is just picked too rarely to even register as a top laner.

For mid lane, we have Corki as the 16th most popular pick, with a pick rate of 4.6%. Any other mid lane marksmen are just picked too rarely to register as a mid laner.

These two pickrates, BTW, are lower than the pickrate for every single ADC picked bot lane, the lowest of which is Varus at 5.1%.

baetoevnAug 14, 20172 votes

Adc’s are not strong. In fact, they mainly only get strong late-game. (Mid game if they’re ahead) What is strong at the moment are tanks, and mages are super weak atm.

GigglesOAug 14, 20173 votes

Ok, show us some statistical data about how champions Draven aren't Caitlyn strong Lucian early Tristana game Graves

Please tell me how they are any weaker than anything else early With statistical facts.

baetoevnAug 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Ok, show us some statistical data about how champions aren't strong early game

Please tell me how they are any weaker than anything else early With statistical facts.

I can not argue with thtat, but if you focus them down it’s not a problem; and keep in mind this is just YOUR opinion. Doesn’t mean you have to downvote everyone else who doesn’t agree with you...

GigglesOAug 14, 20171 votes

I have a 54% winrate on 900 games with Morde as adc. I know what strong is. I'm beginning to struggle more and more with adc's. They are getting stronger.

ZezockaryAug 13, 20171 votes

Who are you seeing played where? Like what champs in what lane specifically?

GigglesOAug 13, 20174 votes

I see Lucian Mid trist mid kogmaw mid quinn top vayne top kindred jungle graves jungle twitch jungle Ezreal Support MF support AShe support

TeémòAug 13, 20171 votes

are they to strong? or are they really just being pushed out of bot lane because their kits don't let them properly fight against oppression in the bot lane?

Dusk Mane RengarAug 13, 20174 votes

They are strong, bot is still dominated by ADC and Support.

Problem is the lack of Assassin and how easy supports like janna can protect the adc without any kind of counterplay.

PrinceOfStormsAug 14, 20171 votes

Going 0/10 by 15 minutes with 70cs should be considered "doing well" for an ADC in a solo lane.

ZephyrDrakeAug 13, 20175 votes

{quoted}

I see Lucian Mid trist mid kogmaw mid quinn top vayne top kindred jungle graves jungle twitch jungle Ezreal Support MF support AShe support

what? Quinn has been a top champion since forever now, Graves was reworked into being a jungler and Kindred is a jungler. Who the fuck plays Ezreal as a support? he offers nothing as a support!

I smell insane amount of BS and lack of knowledge from this post

GigglesOAug 14, 20172 votes

Someone hasn't been watching my games in plat... the mmr where everyone does w/e they feel like

ZephyrDrakeAug 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Someone hasn't been watching my games in plat... the mmr where everyone does w/e they feel like

ok... if they do whatever they feel like then it doesn't matter if a champion or role is strong, people would just pick whatever they feel like. So your own argument shoots itself in the foot

GigglesOAug 14, 20171 votes

They only do what is strong. The point I was trying to make is that they are willing to take any champion in any role.

ZephyrDrakeAug 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

They only do what is strong. The point I was trying to make is that they are willing to take any champion in any role.

so? just because something is strong doesn't mean it fits everywhere. If they are willing to take champions on roles they are not the best at then it's on them and you said Ezreal support... he is not a strong champion in the slightest. Your argument keeps shooting itself on the foot

Tribbles FoxfolkAug 13, 20178 votes

{quoted}

I see Lucian Mid trist mid kogmaw mid quinn top vayne top kindred jungle graves jungle twitch jungle Ezreal Support MF support AShe support

Ezreal support is awful. All it brings is damage, no utility. Ezreal himself is useless, and putting him as a support is chopping another leg off of him. Disregarded.

Quinn has always been a toplaner. This is nothing new. You should have seen her with her old Tag Team ult, that was living hell for melee. Regardless, disregarded because Quinn was always a counter-bruiser.

Vayne top is also nothing new. It's not meta, but it's cheeky and good for busting tanks and bruisers. She gets ganked super easy, though. Just have a Kha'Zix or something and she will have to spend the entire game at T2 tower. Disregarded.

Kindred jungle is awful because Kindred is in a horrible position. Disregarded until she gets some crazy buffs.

Graves isn't a Marksman anymore. He's a ranged bruiser. Also disregarded.

Twitch Jungle relies heavily on the enemy team NOT invading him. It's the same problem as Vayne jungle: scales extremely well, but gets ganked easily. Lee Sin or any other jungler will ruin his day. Can work if protected and fed, but not worth the investment. Not meta.

MF Support was never meta. It was a cheese pick in a pro game that caught people off-guard. The metasheeps hopped on it and thought it was awesome. (Hint: it sucks) The main issue is that if MF and her ADC don't get a huge lead early, she's nothing more than food.

Ashe Support is sketchy, but is the most "meta" of the 3 "Supports" you listed. She has slows and can easily apply Stoneskin Bond. Vision control and a stun ult also help a lot. Once again, though, you HAVE to get ahead with a pick like this. If you don't, the pick is done.

Your list is bunk and you clearly show you don't know what you're talking about. If you wanna try again with some facts and numbers (FROM HIGH ELO, NOT TRASH.), then feel free.

AHeroNamedHawkeAug 13, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Eevee Girl Alex,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wixE4AAU,comment-id=000000000002,timestamp=2017-08-13T12:08:00.303+0000)

MF Support was never meta. It was a cheese pick in a pro game that caught people off-guard. The metasheeps hopped on it and thought it was awesome. (Hint: it sucks) The main issue is that if MF and her ADC don't get a huge lead early, she's nothing more than food.

They specifically had to nerf MF's E max because of her supporting with FQC

wut

RivuoAug 14, 20171 votes

They nerfed mfs E because people were taking it with thunderlords and maxing it for brutal poke

AckelopeAug 13, 20172 votes

oh also kindred was literally designed to be a jungling marksman, so talking about them being used in the jungle as "adcs being everywhere" in a way they "shouldn't" be doesn't really hold much merit

PoskeAug 14, 20171 votes

Twitch jungle is meta mate

Popular pick in high elo

And no Counterjungling isnt a viable strategy nowdays

Permaganking from stealth is. Being forced to hug towers because they have jungle twitch is

Twitch jungle in terms of viability is way higher then lee sin

GayFluffyUnicornAug 14, 20172 votes

Twitch jungle is more than meta in decent elos. Lee won't ruin his day since a good twitch will be permaganking and it's not too hard to avoid lee as a ranged. Not even talking about the fact that a jungler can't just invade the enemy if his lanes don't have pressure which they WON'T HAVE knowing that twitch is lurking around.

MF support was NOT a cheese pick. MF support was a META counterpick to zyra and it does not suck. Kindred jungle is not awful. Kindred is a good and viable pick and does certainly NOT need "crazy buffs". Maybe you should learn what you are talking about before you start to belittle others. Not saying his list of "adcs everywhere" is not trash but half your comment is trash as well with not a single FACT included.

ZephyrDrakeAug 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Twitch jungle is more than meta in decent elos. Lee won't ruin his day since a good twitch will be permaganking and it's not too hard to avoid lee as a ranged. Not even talking about the fact that a jungler can't just invade the enemy if his lanes don't have pressure which they WON'T HAVE knowing that twitch is lurking around.

MF support was NOT a cheese pick. MF support was a META counterpick to zyra and it does not suck. Kindred jungle is not awful. Kindred is a good and viable pick and does certainly NOT need "crazy buffs". Maybe you should learn what you are talking about before you start to belittle others. Not saying his list of "adcs everywhere" is not trash but half your comment is trash as well with not a single FACT included.

uh.. no, maybe you should actually know what you are talking about. Twitch jungle is more than meta in decent elos? like what? He cannot gank lanes that do not have CC since all he offers is a very minute slow, if he fails his ganks and he is not farming then he is useless. He is good in lower elos in the jungle because he can take advantage of people's stupidity and disregard of the enemy jungler. At decent elos he will just get destroyed over and over unless you pick him against a jungler that all it wants to do is farm. A twitch ganking is not very threatening when there is not enough CC to do much of anything.

MF support sucks, it was good against ONE champion and nothing more. After that it was just a fun cheese pick and nothing more.

Kindred is terrible in the jungle right now. Good and viable? not really, she struggles to do anything and unless she gets ahead early she really does nothing and becomes a non-factor as the game progresses since she won't be able to get her stacks in a consistent way. There is no reason for you to pick Kindred over anyone right now other than "i want to play Kindred"

dolce de lecheAug 13, 20174 votes

Ezreal is NEVER played as a supp, MF support is no longer meta, and any other real support is better, Ashe is never played in support, Graves and Kindred ARE junglers, Quinn IS a top laner, and the Trist and Kog mid are unviable. IDK about Vayne top, and Lucian is supposed to be multi role. Point is, ADCS ARE NOT OP RN. Stop whining. I am honestly disgusted that this post is getting upvotes. Not only because it it blatanly wrong, but also because, IF ADCS ARE OP RN THEN THEY HAVE BEEN OP THE WHOLE TIME. Because no adc has been buffed lately outside of ezreal, Mf's buffs were withdrawn, Vayne hasnt been buffed yet, cait has actually been nerfed, draven will be nerfed, and support items both have and will be nerfed. BOT LANE AND ADCS ARE NOT OP. Yes some champs/ items are strong but that is not unique to any role.

TormentulaAug 13, 20173 votes

Lucian mid - lcs gimmick, garb in soloq.

trist mid - never seen it recently but any burst mage or assassin shits on her early. Literally the only thing this is good for is split pushing while the actual adc teamfights.

kog mid - not really new and kog mid goes AP usually. Not that great either.

quinn top - quinn top is meta and she's not great rn.

vayne top - holding my judgement because I've actually been seeing this. Its less of a "vayne op" reason and more of a "bot lane is cancer so vayne is better off farming free top" imo.

kindred jg - is this a problem right now? No. Is it even good? Not really.

grave jg - oh look, we're bringing up graves for the millionth time since he existed.

twitch jg - twitch in general is strong rn tbh

ez support - wut in tarnation... the day this is a problem is the day we need to buff zyra...

MF support - ded. was a zyra counterpick gimmick for a time, garb for any other reason at that time, garb for any other reason right now, and garb for that reason atm.

Ashe support - gimmick, debatably one more likely to work, but still a squishy early abusable gimmick. Her arrows and vision are pretty much it.

DaNinadAug 13, 20171 votes

The only ones viable there in solo queue are graves jungle (who is not an adc) and quinn top and a well played lucian mid. If you get rekt by a lucian that means you are garbage or the lucian is good. It's really a competitive gimmick.

AbiwonKenabiAug 14, 20172 votes

Just to reiterate on what everyone else is saying right now, but any support with a heal or a shield is in-vogue. Ardent Censer is stupidly broken, and combine this with Coin, Redemption, Locket, it's a good day to be a traditional support. Janna is so good right now because of itemization. Any marksman who could plausibly go support would get crapped on by any traditional support, even the tanky engage ones like Alistar or Rakan(not really tanky, but would still crap on an ADC support)

Like, what would an Ezreal support even bring to the table? Attack speed buff? No, Ardent Censer is broken, you get a shield/heal and a better version of the buff and then some. Or run Lulu with her allied W. Damage? No, Brand, Zyra and a myriad of others do better in that regard. Ezreal sucks right now anyways, even when he has a budget. I couldn't imagine if he was as poor as a support. He couldn't buy anything, he'd be literally worthless.

GigglesOAug 14, 20172 votes

I saw a draven ezreal beat a lulu caitlyn. Your comment is based on opinion and not fact.

AbiwonKenabiAug 14, 20172 votes

No, your comment is based on anecdotal evidence, an incredibly small sample at that. My comment is based in part on my opinion, sure, but my opinion was formed through many games that I've played, watched others play and watched the pros play. _One _ game where Draven Ezreal worked is not a trend. Saying "I saw a Draven Ezreal crush meta one time" is like saying "I saw Yasuo Malphite lane crush meta one time." You probably did, but it was probably an exception rather than the norm. Anything can work in solo queue, but that doesn't mean it's likely to work.

I'm inclined to believe the Draven was more to blame than the Ez, and my guess is that a Janna or Karma with him would have crushed even harder. But I don't have all the facts of that particular game, and it's beside the point anyways.

PopcornBunniAug 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I see Lucian Mid trist mid kogmaw mid quinn top vayne top kindred jungle graves jungle twitch jungle Ezreal Support MF support AShe support

Quinn can go into legitimately any role. She does worst mid but she still had ridiculous self peel there to get out of ganks.

DJMason88Aug 13, 20171 votes

I can see how ADC's top are a problem with Melees but for midlane, any mage or assassin should be able to win. They often don't have reliable hard CC and can't just build Zhonyas and you don't have to rely on hexdinker which means more gold for assassins. Hexdinker would be a problem with Mages, but Artillery mages should be able to poke them and get the shield and burst mages should be able to pop the shield.

ShonjlAug 14, 20171 votes

Wouldn't some champs not be included in this? Graves is meant to be a jungler, and he isn't even an ADC anymore, he is a ranged bruiser like Gnar, Quinn has always been a top laner, kindred always a jungler.

Corki and EZ have constantly been on and off as mid laners more than bot laners.

Also Lucy and Draven are only relevant when they are OP. When do you ever see a Draven when he doesnt have an OP item to abuse? Or a Lucy when he doesn't have the same? Ez is honestly no different, he was only good til they gutted him for abusing an item

Actually I think EZ isnt any weaker than he normally is, just he is garbage against champs that outrange him or burst him. Aka Lucy and Draven and Caitlyn. Ez has his Q sure but his auto range is low, so Cait can abuse him.

GigglesOAug 15, 20171 votes

graves is still listed as a marksmen, and is still a ranged AD champion.

ShonjlAug 15, 20171 votes

So are Teemo, Urgot, Azir and Kennen and none of them are considered ADCs.

Teemo and Kennen CAN play like one but they are AP champs that don't build AS anymore, Teemo used to get Nashors and Wits End before but not anymore, just standard Liandry/Void/Rabadon

Urgot and Graves are the only two that are extremely similar. And you are gimping yourself on Urgot if you build him as an ADC. You WANT Frozen Mallet, you want Black Cleaver, you want to be a bruiser.

GigglesOAug 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Urgot and Graves are the only two that are extremely similar. And you are gimping yourself on Urgot if you build him as an ADC. You WANT Frozen Mallet, you want Black Cleaver, you want to be a bruiser.

Thts basically what kogmaw is doing in high MMR... so is he not an adc now either?

ShonjlAug 25, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Thts basically what kogmaw is doing in high MMR... so is he not an adc now either?

Building an ADC differently doesn't change that they are still an ADC. He still is a hypercarry late game due to his massive long range, high AS and %damage. Bruiser Kog isn't an unknown thing because of such.

Building an Urgot as ADC when he wants to outlast you then execute you is stupid, his kit even outright tells you "Hey I do less damage if I keep attacking from the same direction, don't do it". Graves builds similar to an ADC but he isn't auto reliant, he is mainly spells. His combo mainly consist of him bursting you with Q auto R. He doesn't just stand there and right click you.

I am not sure you have much logic or thought process here if you are trying to compare Kogmaw to Urgot.....

ValyrianBladeAug 15, 20171 votes

The adcs showing up in other roles aren't too strong. They aren't even strong in bot Lane.

The strong bot Lane adcs are strong because they're supposed to have a weak early game (like twitch or tristana should) but with all the nerfs to champs like caitlyn who were already brought in line and just dumpstered. Nothing is keeping twitch or tristana in line when the lane bullies are so weak. Coin's op-ness is also hugely favoring these adcs as they prefer a passive laning phase and utility supports over a trade-heavy Lane with an all in tank support or a high damage mage support. So you've got this meta that's massively favoring twitch/tristana and probably kog/vayne, and everyone is busy whining about draven (because he's the only bully left to deal with them).

Lucian mid or quinn top, etc... aren't remotely op. Most mid laners can beat Lucian, they're designed to blow up adcs. Quinn top is a Lane bully but gets outscaled easily and is still beaten in plenty of matchups.