My Feedback on Vayne

Tribbles Foxfolk··5 votes·1,591 views

So, Vayne's the new hot topic for the Boards to complain about. Nothing really new, it's been like this since Season 4, but after someone (either a pro or streamer) popularized a Vayne OHK Crit build, the Boards have been out in full force with renewed vigor, demanding Vayne be gutted.

Vayne is among my top 5 most played champions in League of Legends (alongside Ashe, Sona, Ezreal, and Gnar) and one of my favorite ADCs to play. On a raw mechanical level, she's simple to pick up since her abilities are all very straightforward to use. However, YOUR mechanics (last-hitting, positioning, combos, etc) have to be totally on point to play Vayne effectively. She's not necessarily a high skill cap, but a high MECHANICAL MASTERY cap. She is very rewarding to proficient players and somewhat punishing to inexperienced ones.

I feel a short bring-up-to-speed summary was required to bring us all to the same level. Here's my feedback to Vayne in her current state:

Passive: Night Hunter While within 2000 units of a visible enemy champion, Vayne gains 30 bonus movement speed while moving towards them. During Final Hour, this is increased to 90.

This passive is really simple. You see an enemy, you run them down. This gives Vayne good chasing capabilities. I like it and think it's in a very well-balanced state.

Q: Tumble Cost: 30 Mana (All ranks) Distance Covered: 300 Units Cooldown: 6/5/4/3/2 seconds Vayne tumbles a short distance towards the mouse cursor. Her next autoattack within 7 seconds deals (30%/40%/50%/60%/70% Total AD) additional Physical Damage. If she Crits on this attack, the bonus damage Crits too. This also works on structures and resets Vayne's AA timer. If Final Hour is activated and Vayne casts Tumble, she will gain Invisibility (Invisible) for 1 second.

This is probably her best ability currently. A few patches ago, this was a 30%-50% (+5%/rank) Total AD scaling instead of 30%-70% (+10%/rank) Total AD, didn't work on structures, and could have its invisibility countered by a Sweeper or Pink Ward. Not too long ago, Riot buffed it by turning the scaling up to 30%-70%. Next patch, Riot buffs it again by adding the ability for it to deal its extra damage to structures. Then with the Assassin Rework, they buffed it AGAIN by adding Invisibility (Invisible) to it, which means nothing short of a Tower's True Sight can dispell it.

My suggestion: Revert the scaling to its original (30%-50% Total AD), remove the ability to work on structures, and make the stealth granted Invisibility (Camouflage).

W: Silver Bolts Stack Duration: 3 seconds (All ranks) (Does not decay, all stacks fall off after 3 seconds) Passive (No Cooldown) Vayne's bolts are coated with Silver, which is highly lethal to evil creatures. Vayne's autoattacks and Condemn apply stacks of Silver Bolts. If Vayne applies 3 consecutive stacks to an enemy, the stacks are consumed and the target takes 6%/7.5%/9%/10.5%/12% of their Maximum HP in True Damage. Attacking a new target resets any stacks on the previous target. The damage has a minimum damage threshold and a cap of 200 True Damage against Monsters and Minions.

This is the ability that defines Vayne as a tankbusting ADC. While 6% may not seem like a lot, 6% of 2000 HP is still 120 damage that can't be prevented or mitigated. With good use of Tumble and Condemn, it isn't hard to AA-Q-E an enemy and deal a lot of burst damage.

My suggestion: If it really MUST be nerfed, then either nerf the scaling and damage (6%/7%/8%/9%/10% is what I suggest) or change the damage type to either Magical with the same damage or Physical with increased damage. However, I don't actually think this is as ridiculously broken as people claim it is because it requires her to focus the tank and not attack the enemy ADC/Mid. I will concede that the power budget is slightly too high, but it can be salvaged.

E: Condemn Cost: 90 Mana (All ranks) Cast Range: 550 Units Knockback Range: 470 Units Cooldown: 20/18/16/14/12 seconds Vayne snaps a quick shot with her massive crossbow at a target enemy within 550 range, dealing 45/80/115/150/185 (+50% Bonus AD) Physical Damage, applying 1 stack of Silver Bolts, and knocking the target back 470 units. If the target hits a wall, structure, or similar hard terrain, they will suffer 45/80/115/150/185 (+50% Bonus AD) Physical Damage again and be Stunned for 1.5 seconds, but does not apply a second stack of Silver Bolts. This deals a total of 90/160/230/300/370 +100% Bonus AD Physical Damage + 1 stack of Silver Bolts if the target hits solid terrain. This cannot be disjointed, but can be blocked by Wind Wall or Unbreakable.

Here is one of Vayne's most annoying abilities. While the damage isn't exactly a nuclear bomb, it still deals plenty and can easily execute a low health enemy, especially if they already have 2 stacks of Silver Bolts on them. It basically gives her a hard CC, engage/disengage, and execute all in one. However, I don't think it's actually OP. Besides the fact that the ability has a tendency of bugging out on the stunbox, it's actually pretty situational and has a really long cooldown, so Vayne has to use it carefully.

My suggestion: It's actually fine as it is. I don't have many complaints with it. Just make the stunbox more reliable and less prone to stunning/not stunning randomly and normalize the range/knockback. (500/500? 550/550?)

R: Final Hour Cost: 80 Mana (All ranks) Cast Range: Personal (Self) Duration: 8/10/12 seconds Cooldown: 100/85/70 seconds Vayne draws her massive crossbow, becoming far more lethal. For 8/10/12 seconds, she gains +30/50/70 Bonus Attack Damage and empowers her Night Hunter and Tumble abilities. There is no cast time/cast point on Final Hour and it will not interrupt any current orders Vayne has. Her autoattack animation is also affected. Night Hunter (Final Hour): The movement speed bonus is tripled from 30 to 90. Tumble (Final Hour): On cast, grants Vayne 1 second of Invisibility (Invisible).

Whoo...Wow. Yeah, this ability is INSANE. At level 6, here's what Vayne gets with rank 3 Tumble and rank 1 Final Hour: 150% AD (w/o Final Hour's bonus) + 45 + 1s unbreakable Invisibility on a 4s CD (~3s downtime, factoring the 1s Invisibility) + 90 movespeed for chasing/kiting. Yeah, even I admit this ability needs some work.

My suggestion: Reduce the AD to +20/40/60 and increase the Mana Cost to 100.

tl;dr: I think the buffs to her Q were completely unnecessary and her R needs to have its Mana Cost increased and Bonus AD decreased. Her Silver Bolts could also be tuned back to either not be True Damage or deal less of it. If this somehow makes her too weak, we could always give her back the 3 AD she lost.

6 Comments

Weathered2 votes

There are already determined changes meant for patch 6.23 (?), check Meddler's response on red tracker, I don't remember the exact patch.

Tribbles Foxfolk1 votes

{quoted}

There are already determined changes meant for patch 6.23 (?), check Meddler's response on red tracker, I don't remember the exact patch.

I went looking and it doesn't appear to be anything specific named. Maybe I overlooked it, but so far, the changes seem to be under wraps.

I also read that they're considering saving Vayne changes for 6.24, but once again, doesn't sound like anything official.

Tribbles Foxfolk2 votes

I like that people are downvoting without posting disagreements/counter-arguments.

Sorry I don't wanna be part of the Vayne hate circlejerk, Boards, but I'd rather just have the buffs reverted than Vayne actually gutted.

Drehirth2 votes

Just get used to them on here, and don't take them as something bad; take it as a victory.

This is all a silent downvote says anyway

"I don't agree with you, but can't or won't come up with an argument as to why. I concede to your superior intellect"

Last part's just a bit of fun, and it sometimes triggers people into actually replying; regardless if they disagree they can continue to say that statement by down voting you, or they can come and say WHY they disagree. This is assuming a well thought out post was the one of discussion and not some rage post not worth replying to obviously.

If you think like this it manages to bring some satisfaction when you combat boards circle-jerking, otherwise you may go crazy if you take the down votes too seriously ;)

Tribbles Foxfolk1 votes

{quoted}

Just get used to them on here, and don't take them as something bad; take it as a victory.

This is all a silent downvote says anyway

"I don't agree with you, but can't or won't come up with an argument as to why. I concede to your superior intellect"

Last part's just a bit of fun, and it sometimes triggers people into actually replying; regardless if they disagree they can continue to say that statement by down voting you, or they can come and say WHY they disagree. This is assuming a well thought out post was the one of discussion and not some rage post not worth replying to obviously.

If you think like this it manages to bring some satisfaction when you combat boards circle-jerking, otherwise you may go crazy if you take the down votes too seriously ;)

Ugh...I guess you're right. I'm just super annoyed because if your thread goes to 0, you can probably kiss any hopes of it recovering goodbye.

It's just clear to me that most people on the Boards don't want an actual discussion as to what is the actual root of a problem, they just want to go kill-crazy if something does even 2 more damage than it should.

What do you actually think about Vayne, though? How about the proposed nerfs? I tried to keep it within reason, mostly within her OLD power curve.

Tribbles Foxfolk1 votes

Since it's clear that the Boards doesn't want to see anything except circlejerking and memes, I'm done reviving this post. You guys win. Let's gut Vayne to have 1 HP, 1 Armor, 1 MR, 1 base AD, and no abilities.

I'm pretty much done at this point. With League, with the Boards. The community doesn't know what it wants or what's best for the game, they lose a game to a champion once and cry "WTF SO OP NERF".

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