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Stay smart or follow my team off the cliff?

Akasuisei··1 votes·545 views

There have been a ton of games recently, where I'm top lane (or other lanes) and I'm doing well in my lane and ahead once we hit mid game and then start having to group. I usually get this this point by staying disciplined and patient, farming under tower when needed and not taking any uncecessary chances. However, once we start grouping, my team mates make a tons of mistakes like getting caught out, staying too long or getting caught by enemy cc, going for an objective like baron or drag at the wrongest time, etc. Then as the top laner, tank / semi-tank, despite my better knowledge, I dive in to save them and get rekted. I even realize this is probably not the smartest thing to do as I'm doing it...

I've heard the advice for team games that "everyone doing the sub optimal or not smart play 'together' is better than everyone off doing their own thing", but is this really true? I still think it applies at some levels and in some situations, but I'm sitting in the middle of Bronze right now and just hate throwing away these games that I do so well in and that we are set up to win, just because of a few dumb mid game mistakes where I went in against my better judgement.

Advice? Others that share the same woes?

14 Comments

Old Man Teeto1 votes

A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.

  • George S. Patton

In context, even the most poorly conceived plan can succeed from time to time, but if you refuse to act, it could be too late for it to matter.

I play this game by this motto, and I'm a VERY conservative player, and I have racked up more deaths following other players lead that I thought were dumb ideas because if I didn't they would have failed with utmost certainty. However, I have also seen the the majority of my memorable highlights doing this, and some insane snowball advantages and even epic turnarounds.

Akasuisei1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Old Man Teeto,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wZk50nlJ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-03-16T16:52:04.956+0000)

  • George S. Patton

In context, even the most poorly conceived plan can succeed from time to time, but if you refuse to act, it could be too late for it to matter.

I play this game by this motto, and I'm a VERY conservative player, and I have racked up more deaths following other players lead that I thought were dumb ideas because if I didn't they would have failed with utmost certainty. However, I have also seen the the majority of my memorable highlights doing this, and some insane snowball advantages and even epic turnarounds.

Thanks for the actual quote, sounds way cooler. I'm hoping that eventually following the rest of the team in will lead to some epic highlights for me too, but that just hasn't been the case as of yet.

FurretHasAGlock1 votes

If you're worried about your team, Then do what would be better for the team. If everybody is going to die, prevent the ace if possible. I am also a top lane main, (Gnar main, to be specific) and while i may shine in team fighting, I find that split pushing UNTIL more than 1 person need to deal with me is key. Once that happens, it is likely you will be focused in teamfights, allowing your team to dish out their damage, while you still build tanky.

Akasuisei1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Derpasaurus Trex,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wZk50nlJ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-03-16T16:52:55.308+0000)

If you're worried about your team, Then do what would be better for the team. If everybody is going to die, prevent the ace if possible. I am also a top lane main, (Gnar main, to be specific) and while i may shine in team fighting, I find that split pushing UNTIL more than 1 person need to deal with me is key. Once that happens, it is likely you will be focused in teamfights, allowing your team to dish out their damage, while you still build tanky.

This is the exact thinking I follow to get ahead in lane and all the way till mid lane! I think there is just that break down point where as im pushing top, my team isn't able to hold mid and I cave in to go help them. Then it kinda turns to crap from there....but maybe I need to push hard top even earlier to make the enemy team come get me before my team falls further behind?

JayHog19921 votes

For me it's pretty simple.

If all your tanks die. Run.

If the enemy got a quadra kill and you're the last one alive. Run.

If you're out of mana while your team goes in. Run.

They should try and watch their team mates before making such risks, I do the same even when I'm the backline.

Akasuisei1 votes

{quoted}

For me it's pretty simple.

If all your tanks die. Run.

If the enemy got a quadra kill and you're the last one alive. Run.

If you're out of mana while your team goes in. Run.

They should try and watch their team mates before making such risks, I do the same even when I'm the backline.

I like this check list. The one I sometimes stick around for is when I don't have mana, but maybe I should just make a hard rule on that.

JayHog19921 votes

Was playing Heimerdinger in ARAM yesterday and was trying to folllow up a VI that engaged. Had mana to pull rockets, but not enough for a grenade, so she died in the process. Lucky, they didn't chase

Malhammers1 votes

I have noticed if my team engages in a bad fight, and you retreat early knowing it is a bad fight, you are 100% going to lose that fight. Lower elos have no sense of rotating in and out of fights, focusing targets, etc...they just go into a team fight, mash buttons, and hope their team comes out on top. So...if you run away from that fight you give your team 0 chance to win it. You may as well go down with the ship or die trying.

Akasuisei1 votes

{quoted}

I have noticed if my team engages in a bad fight, and you retreat early knowing it is a bad fight, you are 100% going to lose that fight. Lower elos have no sense of rotating in and out of fights, focusing targets, etc...they just go into a team fight, mash buttons, and hope their team comes out on top. So...if you run away from that fight you give your team 0 chance to win it. You may as well go down with the ship or die trying.

Haha, this is so true its funny! So I'm basically rolling the dice on those fights. I should just keep some shots next to my when I play and right before these team fights, take one and then just go balls deep!

LadyRenly1 votes

Unless you are stomping, it's harder to carry bronze because you can't play smart. There's pretty much nothing you can do really, except go down with the sinking ship unless you are tryndamere

Very often someone makes a dumb bronze chase, gets halfway in the jungle and then gets piled on by 3 guys, I don't think anyone here can argue that they don't DESERVE to die, because if you save them they won't learn a lesson, and that's what they get, but if you want to win, sometimes you gotta put your bronze hat on and get right in there because maybe your single contribution could be what changes the game into your favor.

I had a game that was a complete stomp, no one on our team were getting any kills, and my adc was useless. The only one with kills was Yasuo, but he died several times before getting one and was always trading a kill for kill, and he was making really dumb plays like ulting at bad times and going in the jungle, I was trying to instill him with common sense but I realized it wasn't working, so I just got desperate and decided he was the only chance of salvaging this mess of a game and I gave up on my ADC and stuck by his side, my nami heals and CC was just what he needed for when he got caught out to slowly turn things into our favor and finally make a comeback.

Akasuisei1 votes

{quoted}

Unless you are stomping, it's harder to carry bronze because you can't play smart. There's pretty much nothing you can do really, except go down with the sinking ship unless you are tryndamere

Very often someone makes a dumb bronze chase, gets halfway in the jungle and then gets piled on by 3 guys, I don't think anyone here can argue that they don't DESERVE to die, because if you save them they won't learn a lesson, and that's what they get, but if you want to win, sometimes you gotta put your bronze hat on and get right in there because maybe your single contribution could be what changes the game into your favor.

I had a game that was a complete stomp, no one on our team were getting any kills, and my adc was useless. The only one with kills was Yasuo, but he died several times before getting one and was always trading a kill for kill, and he was making really dumb plays like ulting at bad times and going in the jungle, I was trying to instill him with common sense but I realized it wasn't working, so I just got desperate and decided he was the only chance of salvaging this mess of a game and I gave up on my ADC and stuck by his side, my nami heals and CC was just what he needed for when he got caught out to slowly turn things into our favor and finally make a comeback.

Glad to hear a success story! This has occurred for me once or twice also. I think the determining factor is if the rest of the team starts flaming each other and giving up at this point, or just kinda go along with it and keep playing (no matter how stupidly). If they remain silent then i agree there is always still a chance.

Deus Imperator1 votes

If you dont follow, they will usually respond with things like "OMG WHY YOU RAN AWAY" "OMG WHY YOU DIDNT WENT IT"

So yeah, now i just suicidally dive with them

Akasuisei1 votes

{quoted}

If you dont follow, they will usually respond with things like "OMG WHY YOU RAN AWAY" "OMG WHY YOU DIDNT WENT IT"

So yeah, now i just suicidally dive with them

Yep, this is usually the comment I get also followed by flaming and other things that turn our team against each other.

RISE Shlack1231 votes

Ah, the great League question - to follow dumb moves or make the smart play alone...

Some high-level content-creators say that it's usually better to make the dumb moves as 5 since you at least give your team a chance to outplay or force the enemy to make a mistake. I've found this to be mostly true - at least I can have my say in making the dumb move work if I go along with it.

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