Orianna support is a thing

AgeOfTheMage·Jan 12, 2017·11 votes·9,910 views

Lots of games i go orianna support peole question it, but the thing is she can support AND mid. she has good zoming, shields, speedboost, slow, hard cc, so why not? alsohealing, i always get athenes

35 Comments

Maximum MordeJan 12, 20173 votes

Eh, she's workable as a support. If you like it do it. I wouldn't question your pick. I wouldn't do it myself because there are other champions that do the same thing as she does in that role better though.

AgeOfTheMageJan 12, 20171 votes

like?

Maximum MordeJan 12, 20174 votes

Karma, Janna, Lulu, Sona if you absolutely must have the shield/speed buff.

If you can live without those but just want damage/cc, Zyra and Morgana make the list. Nami is also a solid choice if you are willing to swap shielding for healing.

Orianna doesn't really have any kill threat till 6, bot lane can be won long before then.

rtbf221651412Jan 12, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wYIMAxnM,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-12T12:52:30.259+0000)

Karma, Janna, Lulu, Sona if you absolutely must have the shield/speed buff.

If you can live without those but just want damage/cc, Zyra and Morgana make the list.

Orianna doesn't really have any kill threat till 6, bot lane can be won long before then.

From what I know, only Galeo has a better shield than her in regards to the base MR/Armor but his shield doesn't do damage. (Command: Protect)
I don't know of anyone who has something that can slow and speed up people at the same time. (Command: Dissonance)

Z StatisticJan 12, 20171 votes

Morgana's shield is infinitely better than Ori's. Morg's is arguably the best in the game because of the cc immunity and the selective damage absorb.

The ability to do two things at once is not the ability to do two things with one spell. Ori can slow and haste with W. Q repositions and deals damage. Lulu can slow with Q and haste with W or poly with W. Karma can slow with Q, root with W, and haste with E. Janna hastes everyone naturally and slows with W.

If you had to pick one spell to use in a game, then sure Ori W would be really good, but you don't. You have a whole kit, and while Ori has a ton of utility and damage, her utility is nothing compared to others.

Maximum MordeJan 12, 20171 votes

Just want to note, that Oriannas W isn't even fully functional by itself. You need Q or E to position it unless you always want to dissonance yourself. Probably not the choice if you are supporting :P.

rtbf221651412Jan 12, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Z Statistic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wYIMAxnM,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-12T16:10:33.470+0000)

Morgana's shield is infinitely better than Ori's. Morg's is arguably the best in the game because of the cc immunity and the selective damage absorb.

The ability to do two things at once is not the ability to do two things with one spell. Ori can slow and haste with W. Q repositions and deals damage. Lulu can slow with Q and haste with W or poly with W. Karma can slow with Q, root with W, and haste with E. Janna hastes everyone naturally and slows with W.

If you had to pick one spell to use in a game, then sure Ori W would be really good, but you don't. You have a whole kit, and while Ori has a ton of utility and damage, her utility is nothing compared to others.

Ew. No. I rather Ori shield over Morgana shield. ADC's can just QS. I could care less if they are overextending that much. Morgana is in a bad spot right now imo. Her W is basically useless unless Q > E combo. Her ult is suicidal unless you have Zhonya's. You can hide behind minions for her Q. Her shield doesn't block damage from the ADC which is basically the point of the support, to help the ADC.

OleandervineJan 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Ew. No. I rather Ori shield over Morgana shield. ADC's can just QS. I could care less if they are overextending that much. Morgana is in a bad spot right now imo. Her W is basically useless unless Q > E combo. Her ult is suicidal unless you have Zhonya's. You can hide behind minions for her Q. Her shield doesn't block damage from the ADC which is basically the point of the support, to help the ADC.

W is an amazing zoning tool that you can use to punish the ADC if they're trying to farm by either forcing them to take damage or forcing them out of position to avoid the damage. Not all spells have to do damage to be useful, so consider that. I do agree that Soul Shackles is suicide. It would be perfect on a tankier mage like Vlad or Swain, but Morgana has the supreme squish factor and it's a high risk for her to make. As for Black Shield, it has a lot more uses than you give it credit for. Just because it only blocks magic damage doesn't mean it's unviable in the bot lane. It pretty much invalidates the enemy support because all their CC and engage is completely nullified, as is Exhaust. And this effect lasts for a pretty damn long time. Don't knock it just because it doesn't block ADC damage.

Z StatisticJan 12, 20172 votes

TIL: 30 armor + Mr is better than cc immunity

If you want to say that Ori's kit is safer and more flexible than Morg's, that's fine. But saying that Morg's shield is worse than Ori's is stupid. Like, "I don't need to ward" stupid.

rtbf221651412Jan 12, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Z Statistic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wYIMAxnM,comment-id=0000000000000000000000010001,timestamp=2017-01-12T17:05:16.397+0000)

TIL: 30 armor + Mr is better than cc immunity

If you want to say that Ori's kit is safer and more flexible than Morg's, that's fine. But saying that Morg's shield is worse than Ori's is stupid. Like, "I don't need to ward" stupid.

I didn't say it was worse. It's different. I don't like it though. I find myself in more situations where I have to block damage than cc. Again, ADC can QS. Do you know what QS is?

Z StatisticJan 12, 20171 votes

Yeah, it's that thing that is only useful in dueling because cc can be reapplied.

I can't imagine why you would think cc immunity is ever worse than anything else.

rtbf221651412Jan 12, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Z Statistic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wYIMAxnM,comment-id=000000000000000000000001000100000000,timestamp=2017-01-12T18:07:47.416+0000)

Yeah, it's that thing that is only useful in dueling because cc can be reapplied.

I can't imagine why you would think cc immunity is ever worse than anything else.

I think you need to learn to read. Nowhere did I say cc immunity is bad. Second time you only read half the post. Keep attacking the strawman though.

Z StatisticJan 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Ew. No. I rather Ori shield over Morgana shield.

Morgana's shield is better. If Morgana's shield absorbed physical damage too, that would be a nerf. Even if your ally were being attacked by a Lee Sin, her shield makes them immune to Lee's slow, reveal, and knockback. Even versus a Riven, it lets you roll over her in a duel because now she can't stun and knock you up.

Place the shield on anybody who gets locked down easily, and they will destroy everything because physical damage is usually not enough to kill the target, and the magic absorb is insane. Now, it's not the absolute best shield in every single situation. I in fact would rather have a Janna shield at 50 hp vs Lee than a Morg shield, but I woudl rather have a Morg shield vs Vi than a Janna shield.

The overall trend in situations where Morg > all is very strongly in Morg's favor. So, now that I have established that Morg's shield is the best overall (which is why the cooldown is so damn long), you must be under appreciating the value of the shield over everything else since you specifically said 'Morg shield' and not just dislike playing Morgana. What is the reason Morg's shield is so strong? Because of the cc immunity.

So when you say:

{quoted}

I didn't say it was worse. It's different. I don't like it though. I find myself in more situations where I have to block damage than cc. Again, ADC can QS. Do you know what QS is?

It makes you look like someone who looks at their ward record and fails to see why wards are necessary or useful if they almost never catch anybody.

You also imply that QSS is somehow comparable to cc immunity. It's not even comparable to Cleanse, and Cleanse is not comparable to cc immunity.

So, to recap: you are saying that QSS is good enough at doing the job of a Morg shield, which means that the immunity is not that much more effective, which means it's comparable in degree of power (though not in kind) to Ori shield, which is why you like Ori shield since absorbing damage fits your playstyle more than letting your ally, whoever they may be, do whatever they want to the enemy team, such as keep your initiator or assassin from being cockblocked by a support or your carry from being locked down.

If I'm still strawmanning you, then you're going to have to start over because the only reason I can think of that you would say Ori's is better is because of subjective preference.

rtbf221651412Jan 12, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Z Statistic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wYIMAxnM,comment-id=00000000000000000000000100010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-12T19:04:29.157+0000)

If I'm still strawmanning you, then you're going to have to start over because the only reason I can think of that you would say Ori's is better is because of subjective preference.

Nope. You need to read. I said everything I wanted to. You can continue to put words in my mouth. I'm very literal. Never did I say Ori was better than Morgana. However, I do not like Morgana and do feel like she is underpowered compared to most supports.

Z StatisticJan 12, 20171 votes

Now, you're moving the goalposts.

You said Morgana's shield was weaker than or just as good as Orianna's shield.

But this is lovely.

{quoted}

Never did I say Ori was better than Morgana.

I didn't say you did.

{quoted}

However, I do not like Morgana and do feel like she is underpowered compared to most supports.

You said you did. First, you say Ori shield > Morg shield. Now you say support Morg is underpowered with the context from the OP that Ori is mediocre if not not sleeper OP. That's what " x is a thing" means after all.

So, it's not that Ori is better than Morg, it's that Ori is average or above average and Morg is below average.

The entire reason I'm saying this is because I have read your posts. All of them. Multiple times. I do not fire and forget responses.

edit: but apparently I'm colorblind and didn't see that you weren't the OP. That changes everything. My bad. [zombie-brand-facepalm]

chipndip1Jan 12, 20172 votes

Funny, because the op doesn't buy wards or boots.

OleandervineJan 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

From what I know, only Galeo has a better shield than her in regards to the base MR/Armor but his shield doesn't do damage. (Command: Protect)

I don't know of anyone who has something that can slow and speed up people at the same time. (Command: Dissonance)

Galio's "shield" doesn't actually apply a shield. It just grants the defensive bonuses. Orianna's "Command: Protect" actually applies a shield along with giving the AR/MR bonuses from the ball. "Command: Protect" is therefore superior to Galio's "shield."

rtbf221651412Jan 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Galio's "shield" doesn't actually apply a shield. It just grants the defensive bonuses. Orianna's "Command: Protect" actually applies a shield along with giving the AR/MR bonuses from the ball. "Command: Protect" is therefore superior to Galio's "shield."

90 armor and 90 magic resist + healing on galeo from damage. Yes, his shield doesn't apply a 'shield' but it does its job. Unless 90 armor isn't a lot to you?

OleandervineJan 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

90 armor and 90 magic resist + healing on galeo from damage. Yes, his shield doesn't apply a 'shield' but it does its job. Unless 90 armor isn't a lot to you?

I'm not saying 90 isn't a lot. But not taking any damage due to a real shield with smaller resistances is better in most regards than still having to take damage. Plus, Orianna's shield actually works in conjunction with Windspeaker's Blessing, Redemption, Athene's Unholy Grail, Mikael's Crucible, and Ardent Censor.

rtbf221651412Jan 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I'm not saying 90 isn't a lot. But not taking any damage due to a real shield with smaller resistances is better in most regards than still having to take damage. Plus, Orianna's shield actually works in conjunction with Windspeaker's Blessing, Redemption, Athene's Unholy Grail, Mikael's Crucible, and Ardent Censor.

Well, Galio is a tank? Why would anyone build Mikael's on Galio?

OleandervineJan 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Well, Galio is a tank? Why would anyone build Mikael's on Galio?

You don't, and that's the point. Galio doesn't have a real shield and there's nothing that can make his ability better, whereas Orianna's Command: Protect can be amplified by building AP and the items that build from Forbidden Idol and Windspeaker's Blessing. In terms of usefulness as a support, Orianna's Command: Protect is superior to Galio's ability.

Orianna's shield is a mild stat steroid along with a real shield that can be boosted from the three 10% Heal/Sheild boosts that are on Mikael's, Ardent, and Redemption, as well as the 10% Heal/Shield Boost on Windspeakers blessing, which is ALSO coupled with the mini stat steroid from Windspeaker's. So if you were to build them all and have Windspeaker's, that's a 40% boost to your shield strength, which means that you're preventing that much damage from being applied to an ally, and then you get the AR/MR bonuses from the ball and Windspeakers on top of that. So enemies have to break through a shield to begin applying damage to your shielded ally, whereas Galio doesn't have the damage prevention buffer and enemies immediately begin applying damage to his ally.

rtbf221651412Jan 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You don't, and that's the point. Galio doesn't have a real shield and there's nothing that can make his ability better, whereas Orianna's Command: Protect can be amplified by building AP and the items that build from Forbidden Idol and Windspeaker's Blessing. In terms of usefulness as a support, Orianna's Command: Protect is superior to Galio's ability.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

OleandervineJan 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You are comparing apples and oranges.

Well you in fact were the one who began by comparing Command: Protect to Galio's ability that boosted resistances...

rtbf221651412Jan 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Well you in fact were the one who began by comparing Command: Protect to Galio's ability that boosted resistances...

And you turned it into 'real' shields. Galio is more for if everyone dives your adc and you. Ori would be more for poke resistance.

Maximum MordeJan 12, 20171 votes

An irrelevant note. All the champions I listed are fully capable of matching what Orianna can do. They all have fewer mana problems doing it as well and are more reliable in practice at actually doing their job.

Orianna also can't don't both in a single spell unless she herself is being dove or she already placed the ball in the correct location using another spell, which makes it two spells at that point.

Don't get me wrong, Ori has utillty in her kit that makes her acceptable as a support, but she is competing in that role with some other champions who are very capable. Don't make the mistake of thinking that Orianna out damages any of them either, because she really doesn't with similar items. They are all fairly compareable in the damage output department.

rtbf221651412Jan 12, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wYIMAxnM,comment-id=00000000000000000002,timestamp=2017-01-12T16:37:14.368+0000)

An irrelevant note. All the champions I listed are fully capable of matching what Orianna can do. They all have fewer mana problems doing it as well and are more reliable in practice at actually doing their job.

Orianna also can't don't both in a single spell unless she herself is being dove or she already placed the ball in the correct location using another spell, which makes it two spells at that point.

Don't get me wrong, Ori has utillty in her kit that makes her acceptable as a support, but she is competing in that role with some other champions who are very capable.

I'm not saying she is good. And don't scoff at defensive stats. ADC's lack those.

SooFr0styNov 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

From what I know, only Galeo has a better shield than her in regards to the base MR/Armor but his shield doesn't do damage. (Command: Protect)

I don't know of anyone who has something that can slow and speed up people at the same time. (Command: Dissonance)

Nami's E but for a single person

rtbf221651412Nov 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Nami's E but for a single person

That requires a delay though for the adc to shoot the bubble.

DarkRitualJan 12, 20173 votes

The ball also grants vision in bushes, which is very useful.

DrugsForRobotsJan 12, 20171 votes

This^

The fair range on her Q to get it there, combined with her decently large leash radius makes it a pretty safe scouting mechanism and almost a ward-like object in a sense.

It also can't be seen while it's in brush IIRC, and she can 'hide' it in certain pieces of terrain.

DoktorKaiserJan 12, 20172 votes

I feel like I wrote this thousands of times over the years. Please you are probably new to Ori, yes I know it seems that she has a good kit for a support. Does it work? No, no, no and no. You are crippling your team, Ori scales with GOLD which she wont get bot, she has extreme MANA COSTS which make her bad for laning, her range is mediocre, only positive thing about her is the shield which isnt even instant so its bad. I main Ori since her release, dont pick her bot it sucks balls (pun intended). Try Karma, Lulu, Velkoz, Brand, hell even Lux works much better, you might had some success but its a bad idea to relly on Ori as your support, there are dozens of better picks. Sorry if I was rude, just tired of people trying over and over again when it never worked, just like nidalee support...

FertsaJan 12, 20171 votes

something a lot of people forget to bring up is that "the ball" grants 5 to 25 armor and magic resist to whoever it is on, which goes well with windspeaker's, which let's you make people really bulky when you shield them.

RookPusherJan 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Lots of games i go orianna support peole question it, but the thing is she can support AND mid. she has good zoming, shields, speedboost, slow, hard cc, so why not? alsohealing, i always get athenes

Because support is the art of letting your ADC farm and setting them up for kills, while preventing farm and kills from the enemy, anyone CAN do it. Some just have a better kit for it.

Assessing the enemy's comp, your own comp, and adjusting accordingly means you can use some out-there choices and do well. That Gragas support is beastly.

Snowman ArcJan 12, 20171 votes

I tried Ori support, it didn't work quite well to be honest. Her main role is dishing out damage, because of her low cooldowns and high ap scalings, which is why she is played mainly in the middle lane. As a supportive role, her only real supportive ability is her E, which you can't really utilize to its full efficiency to protect your ADC with, because you need to place your ball aggressively for damage, slows and a good ult.

I see how she could be a good support, with poke in lane, slows, ms buffs, shields, Armour / MR buffs and her ult, but practically, it doesn't work as well as mid lane. She can do everything you say as a support by being played as a mid laner, and more.