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Uhh, so what ARE the Syndra nerfs going to be, precisely?

Overlord Forte··16 votes·1,296 views

Hi,

Phoning in a bit from the /r/syndramains group on this. She's stated to be getting some attention, but we've not seen a word of any idea about the matter since ... ever. Just that she's a problem, which we're all pointing to for largely the same reasons. A fair number I've talked to, for instance, are on board with the reversion of 6.9 and 6.12 to her kit changes, as the stated goals of 'accessibility' seem to have installed a lot of problems. The W passive hard breaking her E-multi stun and her R's sphere lock, namely. Q's passive timer is ... funny, but it may remove too much counter play in waiting for Syndra's spheres to die out. That one is a little more up in the air since we've never seen the idea without the multi-grab W passive.

I mean, we've just not seen any dialogue on the matter at all, let alone any input sessions or the like. I'm just curious if there will be any, or if it's just 'here's your nerfs' and we're done.

Thank you.

12 Comments

GenShadow5 votes

Hello, right from /r/syndramains, i can confirm the many talks we have had and the vast majority saying we would greatly enjoy a reversion of 6.9 changes to her passive and the ratios buffs from 6.12.

We do like the idea to have Syndra appeal to other players but we do not enjoy the unnecessary changes which have made her unhealthy in many situations.

Before someone screams <press R and win> answer some questions: <did you buy mr items?>, <did you engage when she had 3-4 spheres on the map?>, <did you disrespect her and walked right into a straight line for a stun?>, if your answers are no, yes and yes than you asked to be killed much like an ADC face checking a 5/0 pantheon in a brush. Fun fact, an APC doing damage is NOT what makes her unhealthy.

Her W changes along with Q are what broke her so to say. Her spheres holding out for 8 seconds and a W that can refresh that timer continuously means a Syndra with enough mana can simply Q + W (refresh 3 spheres) and have a 7 sphere ult on demand, which is the HIGHEST single target damage spell in the damage if we exclude infinitely scaling abilities such as Veigar. You think that's bad? With her W with 3 spheres she can effectively stun a lane wide with minimal effort, it can force objectives super easily and siege incredibly well which is not what Syndra should be able to do but she can because 6.9 changes.

Let us talk about how BEFORE 6.9 Syndra was only played by mains because she: did not stun entire lanes, required actual mechanical prowess with timing to launch a 7 sphere ult (even the bests of us (Overlord Forte is one of them, the OP) only managed it sometimes) because the seventh sphere would expire since her window to launch it was 0.5-1 second instead of 3-4 which is what it is now.

All in all i may have talked too long but if a nerf does happen please make it a reversion of her passive changes. If you nerf her ratios and numbers you are not solving the issue of her utility and sphere stacking abilities during the entire game. In fact only getting rid of her W passive would fix that issue in some way. Just my 2 cents

nononthesnake1 votes

Exactly, nerfs have been teased for 2-3 patches now but still not a word. We would like to hear what the balance team thinks should be addressed, since we Syndra mains all think that reverting her W passive (and maybe the ratio buffs when she was still bugged) would be the best direction all things considered.

Seenan1 votes

I don't care for the MYMU changes. They can revert those for all I care and I'd play Syndra even better than I'm playing her now.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

make either her stun dodgable. or her ult do less damage or do damage depending on ORBS THAT HIT US. i don't want to dodge every skillshot and die because the ult itself does 85% of my hp in damage

Overlord Forte3 votes

The purpose of a point+click ability is to counter mobility. Making its damage reliant on skill shots hitting is the same as making the skill itself inherently a skill shot. Arguably, it's worse to stagger in that way, as multiple skill shots missing is more problematic than the one ultimate skill shot missing.

Charmed by Ahri1 votes

Syndra is actually receiving balance? I remember creating a post about her mindlessnes & yes she has periods of skillfull gameplay.

But currently she is capable of deleting an enemy with missing Q's, Landing W. Then E? Non existent. The missed spheres, lay idle while powering up her ult to a point of instant deletion.

As an Ahri main and avid LeBlanc player, both these high mobility chaotic kits duck dodge dash blink bob and weave through her skillshots like its child's play. She misses countless Q's E went where? And oh that W that is a bit awkward to dodge in the midst of dodging everything else(or point blank missing) and mind you, landing my own multiple skillshots. In the end it all leading Into a charged 5-7 sphere ult. sigh

Now some people play to be smart and use abyssal for resistances and zhonyas to just counter her ult. But with kits of the two previously listed i tend to play glass cannon. One mistake could mean someone might be respawning. Those two kits, when executed properly, can bring someone like Syndra to fall to her knees defeated in a skillful outplay. But when she misses half her kit and is still able to 1 shot. I can only imagine the feels of non mobility champions vs her. Whose kit isn't as flashy to dodge her Q's and E's.

I'm sure Syndra doesn't care for the likes of Ahri or LeBlanc, but who is Syndra's skill match ups? Veigar? Zed? Pls. I mean any champion/skillful player could outplay a Syndra at any stage of the game. Currently? Not so much.

But if all the balance team has come up with, which is what i seggusted awhile back (and it's still up in air ), is to reduce the damage per sphere her ult acquires along with its base damage, I say it's step in the right direction.

Overlord Forte4 votes

Syndra's primary concerns are long range champions, other control mages, rapid and low cooldown mobility, then anyone who can defensively itemize against her. Tanks and fighters are really good, for example. High mobility champions are, literally by design, meant to lose to her ultimate (because point+click counters mobility). Not in a single spell rotation sort of way, but the ones you named (LeBlanc, Ahri, etcetra) should never be comfortable being near her. Their opportune times to engage are in low sphere counts, any wasted Scatters the Weak, and when early rush defensive itemization (e.g, Abyssal Scepter) is strongest. If their approach is literally 'dodge every skillshot and win by default', I'd consider that a problem on their design rather than hers.

If Syndra manages to survive through her slow charge up windows, then her ultimate is dangerous to them. Unlike, say, Veigar, whose old incarnation was literally a measure of his AP value rather than a time one. At which point, it comes down to whose still in the danger zone and hasn't disengage yet, really. Itemization is still noteworthy here as playing pure glass cannon against her is also playing into her Burst strength ... because Burst counters pure glass cannons.

(Coincidentally this is why we largely see Burst and Point+Click damage tied together in League's game design, and AOE damage doesn't really reach the same individual thresholds.)

Assassins are funny for her in specific because she's equipped to go head-to-head with them and win as much as she can lose. That particular match up is extremely volatile, and individual decisions rack up rather quickly, where as someone like a Tank can walk all over her with 2 items in the early/mid game.

I'd ponder if it's a problem more inherent to the Assassin game design pattern, though. They're in a fundamentally 'always losing' position and have to take incredible risks to stay game relevant. Virtually every other class is comfortable in a fall back pattern of some kind, so they're not pressured into unfavorable situations to try and out play.

Charmed by Ahri1 votes

Syndra being the burst mage she is, of course she has her strengths & weaknesses. But by no means does High Mobility champions lose to point click, of course if they chose to get in within range of an enemy point click so be it. Unavoidable none the less, but still possible to overcome. I've seen players build tanky and glass. the outcome still comes down to each players decision making and reactions to the game at hand. I think it all depends on the game and the players personal preference for tanky or glass builds.

Albeit Syndra is a mage, she should be able to go toe to toe with assassins because she landed her shots, regardless. And if she finds herself at the mercy of gap closing high mobility champions that so happen to dodge her clunky slow skills, her WR shouldnt be the reason why she came out victorious. Alot happens in those split seconds and syndra has a kit to lock down enemies if she gets ahold of them. Tbh most mages tend to lose match ups vs particular assassins. Because the high mobility champion has the ability to dance around their necessary ability(s) that would have otherwise swung the skirmish in the mages favor.

But there are champions who literally dance around champions dodging skillshots and pick up kills in the process, if they choose to. IE Kha, Ahri, Leblanc, Zed, fiora, Fizz, mainly assassin like champions. It isn't a game design flaw, that's partially their design, split second decision's of a player using their kit to great potential taking the risk's necessary to take out targets. Mages are definently more laid back while assassins are constantly high strung trying to snowball. Completely different playstyles while some champions are caught in between the two. I get your confusion, but there are champions who win fights from 1 rotation of abilities, some champions have togo through 2 rotations while Syndra is capable of getting away without having to get through half of hers. That's problematic. And a game design flaw in itself. Everyone gets it, her ult deals all the dmgs. If they tone it down a bit maybe it'll force Syndra's to actually land something else besides W.

And by no means is this directed towards you personally but, you are one Syndra (master tier one at that, who is quite articulate) upon hundreds of players comprised of mains, random people abusing her kit, learning the champion itself or just like playing her from time to time. Sadly its out of our control. She's needed balance for quite some time now and it appears to be only to her ult, for now.. when frankly, another Syndra main below was stating what her other real problems/concerns are. That have yet to be addressed... It is what it is. I can't inturrpt dashes and blinks with charm, balance team took that away. I got over it, sorta. Now The team is looking at Syndra's ult damage finally. Its not like they are gutting Syndra, as of yet. Just some number changes.

Handin Out Naps2 votes

You know I don't really respect Syndra mains too often, but you are a really smart player. This is pretty high up there on the things I've read on the boards.

CrazedPorcupine1 votes

2 weeks.

Syndra has nerfs on the PBE right now.

The nerfs are just a damage nerf to her ultimate.

Overall it's 20 less damage per sphere at all ranks, this means an unprepped ult does 60 less damage. This means a full seven sphere ult does 140 less damage at all ranks.

Overlord Forte2 votes

Yeah, saw that the other night. It doesn't actually address her problems, except slapping her level 6-9 kill window ... which already had issues against defensive rushing? I suppose it's trimming ...

agbudar1 votes

base damage from ult is going to go down most likely

personally i think this is a good change i mean with 5 balls in total her base damage on ult is higher then that of veigar's

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