[Gameplay] Syndra's Broken Stun/KB (10 patches and counting!)
Hello, since about patch 4.4 Syndra's Scatter the Weak (E) has a repeating and frequent problem with using Dark Sphere (Q) as a stun, and using it's own native knockback. In simple terms, you cast E, and it fails to knockback or stun the intend target(s) - sometimes resulting in expected damage, but never CCing the target(s). I've encountered this bug in every game mode, and it tends to follow a consistent pattern of behavior intermixed with 'sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt'. I've encountered in Normal Blind, Normal Draft, Custom Games, Howling Abyss, Dominion, Twisted Treeline, Ranked 5v5 Arranged (Diamond/Challenger), Solo Queue Ranked (Diamond/Masters/Challenger), etc.
The basic reproduction steps are as follows:
Step 1: Have the target (minion, champion, jungle camp, it doesn't matter) stand in a group of other targets. A popular example is a Champion standing in the middle of a minion wave - I also frequently encounter this with any of the jungle camps.
Step 2: Cast Dark Sphere to create a sphere, then use Scatter the Weak to launch the sphere into the target Champion. You may use Force of Will to move a sphere into position as well - it is behaves the same as casting a Dark Sphere.
Step 3: Repeat step 2, as sometimes the Dark Sphere will stun as intended. Other times, it will not.
Potential modifiers: Have the target in motion in any direction while inside or near a group. Have the target behind, in the middle of, or in front of a group. Have the target be at 'close range' or 'extreme range', roughly 400 or 1100~ units respectably. Very quickly casting Dark Sphere + Scatter (as fast as you can press the buttons) so that the sphere is still forming when Scatter's pulse waves are touching it.
The bug only tends to occur when hitting 2 or more targets with Scatter the Weak. I have yet to encounter it failing against a 'single' target, but two or more being hit at once or near the same time, the ability breaks. I've seen Scatter fail as little as two enemy Champions without any Dark Spheres - strictly speaking, the knockback entirely by itself. I've had Scatter fail to knockback or stun with a Dark Sphere inside 4-6 unit sized Minion waves and larger. I've had Scatter fail by itself and with Dark Sphere against both team's Blue Camps, Wolf Camps, and Wraith Camps. I've had Scatter fail with Dark Sphere being casted, with spheres thrown by Force of Will, and spheres laying around from Unleashed Power.
Below are numerous videos I've taken of my gameplay where I've encountered the bug, and where appropriate, my notes in analyzing the video. As and when I encounter the bug, I try to video cap it and upload it to this thread.
TL;DR - Syndra's Q+E is not 100% reliable. In situations it would've worked in the past, it now fails. Something changed. It's dangerous to rely on it now because there's about a 1 in 4 chance it will simply fail to work fully. I've died and lost lane (and some matches) because of this. So, maybe I'm expressing the problem wrong, but I know it is there in some form. My teammates can see it happen when they gank my lanes and when we try to angle for team fights, so they're very aware it's a real problem I run into.
[https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6833073/Syndra%20Stun%20Bug%20Test%207-7-2014.mp4](Syndra Bug Test 7-7-2014)
VIDEO MARKER COMMENTARY Syndra Bug Report video markers
4:30-4:37 Trundle is hit by Q+E iun the middle of a creep wave. Scatter pulse knocks him upwards and away from the Dark Sphere, however, this is usually an instance where the Dark Sphere should stun. Possibly moved outside of Dark Sphere's hit box, not 100% certain.
5:10-5:25 Trundle is moving forward toward Syndra next to two caster creeps. Dark Sphere is dropped ontop of him and Scatter is fired off immediately. Trundle ignores Scatter completely, not being fazed by the push back or the Dark Sphere's stun+knockback. Scatter's damage appears to have applied, as indicated by the 58~ damage pop up followed by Dark Sphere's 150~ damage pop up. This is the Syndra Q+E stun bug in a nut shell - note, the stun component worked completely normally on the near by creeps.
Regardless of Dark Sphere's existence state, Scatter was completely ignored in every CC related capacity - which, if Dark Sphere was the sole problem, I presume would be applied and not ignored.
7:20-7:30
Trundle is behind 3 Caster creeps in a perfect line, Q+E is quick fired off onto him. He is shoved back by Scatter the Weak and receives damage, but is not stunned in any capacity. (note the complete lack of stun animation effects above his model as well).
9:35-9:45 Trundle is in the middle of a creep wave when Q+E is dropped on him. He is shoved back by Scatter, but Dark Sphere phases through completely and doesn't apply it's stun or knockback components.
11:20-11:35 Ancient Golem buff camp. Q+E dropped ontop of Blue Golem and the two little lizards. Big Golem was shoved back by Scatter, but it wasn't stunned by the kicked Dark Sphere. Note the Dark Sphere did apply its damage, and thusly finished coming into existence as an interactable object - if the damage is applied before it can be interacted with, that would sound like a problem area.
14:30-14:40 Cannon creep is not stunned even though a Dark Sphere was pushed back ontop and through it (going off into different directions ultimately). Rest of creep wave was affected as normal.
18:18-18:22
Trundle+Galio have Q+E combo dropped right ontop of them during a chase scene. They're pushed back by Scatter, but not stunned by the Dark Sphere in any capacity (not even a stun indicator on their models). (Trundle in fact moved immediately after Scatter's end, where as he would have at least a bit of a stun phase.)
Aatrox walks through Scatter, by itself, completely unimpeded. Scatter's KB failed to work completely, but the damage went through.
http://tinyurl.com/k299jn4 http://tinyurl.com/kc4m5e9
First Test : Close enough to be stunned by the Dark Sphere, Scatter the Weak may have pushed him just out of reach. Uncertain, usually clips hitboxes and stuns at that range.
Second Test : Distinctly collides with hitbox and physically touches Udyr, stun/damage/knockback not applied at all.
Third Test : Sivir damaged by Dark Sphere, completely phases through Scatter's Damage/Knockback/Stun. Her Spell Shield WAS NOT used to block Scatter's effects.
Thus far, movement of both Syndra and enemy champions, as well as the number targets around, seem to affect how the combo resolves. The relation isn't clear, but straight up 1v1 testing produces no problems as far as I've seen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93RaDbil-xg
This time I've got my Ranked 5s Jungler confirming he saw it as well - we went for a tower dive kill on Kassadin and the Q+E Stun just phased through him completely. Also, as per usual, ran into it when trying to mass stun a creep wave + Kassadin.
Beginning part of 0:00 -> 0:10 and the ending of 1:30 -> 1:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8W47ODkP_A
Got to watch a Ziggs walk out free from a gank because Q+E failed to stun (or even KB)! ¯_(ツ)_/¯
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bg3xfswfxI
About 20 seconds into the video. Standard Q+E combo on Riven top while she's dashing towards Syndra. Scatter successfully knocks her back, but the Dark Sphere doesn't stun her - allowing Riven to close distance completely. (Level 4s~).
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6833073/Syndra%20Bug%20Repot%201%2010-12-2014.mp4
Timers
11:45->11:55 Q+E combo, hits all targets except a caster minion beside Soraka, which goes about completely unfazed.
12:00->12:10 Possible Q+E bug, but also could be a hit box issue. Melee+Caster purple creep on the right side went by completely ignoring the stun flying past them.
13:00->13:15 Q+E combo ontop of a minion wave, the purple cannon minion - despite being right next to the dark sphere like a melee minion - completely ignores the CC and continues attacking as normal. Possible hitbox, but not sure why the melee minion ontop of it got affected and not the larger creep.
17:40->17:50 Special note, this is probably a locational based effect - the creep was shoved toward the Dark Sphere thrown over it, but by the time it reached, the dark sphere already launched. This 'looks to be normal' to me, but was a little tricky figuring out why it wasn't stunned.
18:30->18:40 Q+E combo on Soraka toward purple first mid tower. Dark Sphere launched up the creep wave, going right through Soraka's model and completely phasing past - no CC or damage.
20:30->20:35 Similar to 17:40, the creep was pushed toward the dark sphere, but the dark sphere had already left, so no reason to be stunned.
27:00->27:20 Q+E combo toward Soraka with a purple caster creep on either side - Soraka herself was stunned, but the creeps on either side were not despite touching Soraka's hitbox. Possible hit detection issue rather than the stun bug, uncertain.
31:00->31:20 Q+E combo ontop of a purple minion wave. The launched Dark Sphere goes up the entire wave, by skips over a caster creep sitting in the middle of the wave.
34:30->34:50 (IMPORTANT) Q+E combo onto Ezreal+Soraka at purple mid inhibitor. The launched Dark Sphere phased through Ezreal entirely /but worked on the Soraka behind him/. This is the first instance I've seen the front target ignoring the stun but the one behind it getting affected.
43:20->43:40 and 46:10->46:30 Special note: This is actually a separate bug completely, but one easy to show. When Syndra's ultimate kills a target, or the target 'dodges' (zhonya's, repel, vlad pool, etc), the ultimate breaks temporarily. Syndra's model desyncs and frame skips incredibly hard for a couple seconds, until her ultimate's extra spheres evaporate, typically.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6833073/Syndra%20Bug%20Repot%202%2010-12-2014.mp4
Timers 5:30->5:45 Purple caster minion sitting directly in the Dark Sphere's path isn't stunned or KB'd, despite everything else on level with it being hit.
7:45->7:55 Purple minion melee walks underneath Dark Sphere's blast zone, followed up by Scatter, completely ignoring CC (stun bug).
9:25->9:35 Scatter used by itself on an entire purple minion wave - melee creeps and 1 caster creep are pushed backward. Two caster creeps at the back are entirely unaffected, even though scatter's pulse waves rode over them - they took no damage or had any indications of being pushed in their models.
10:45->11:00 Q+E combo used on purple minion wave - a front melee minion walked through Scatter's pulse waves entirely and ignored all its CC components.
11:20->11:35 Q+E combo used on a purple minion wave - a front melee minion ignored Scatter's pulse waves entirely.
24:10->24:15 Q+E combo used on Diana / part of a minion wave at purple mid inhibitor. Scatter's launched Dark Sphere completely phased through a caster minion, no damage/cc whatsoever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqelbDoQchQ
Twisted Treeline Stun Bug edition! Flash over and manuever behind Garen+Evelynn, then shove them back with Scatter the Weak - however, they are not stunned. Evelynn appears to be stunned in flight, but like Garen, recovers instantly at the end of Scatter with no visible pause indicative of a stun. Generally, Scatter's KB applies first then the stun, so a person isn't eating their stun timer while being knocked backward. Even with merc treads (or Irelia) there is a very visible 'hitch' of temporary stand still while the stun's timer counts down - instantaneous movement means the stun failed.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rnolzd4q5r3o82o/League%20of%20Legends%202014-10-13%2017-51-48-07.avi?dl=0
Empress Syndra says: Hey everyone! Had a game today where my stun went right through Twitch under tower.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4kgQHL9E9s
New Summoner's Rift Syndra stun bug, red team's blue camp. Behaves exactly like Old Summoner's Rift stun bug - Scatter and the Dark Sphere completely phased through the giant Blue Golem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4bzNcbo_Dc In this video, during a typical lane trade, Akali dashes toward Syndra right through Scatter the Weak, ignoring every CC component.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhdjwlKT7PI In this video, during the final moments of a team fight, Syndra flashes to Q+E stun 3 enemies. Only two are stunned, while the most dangerous near to her, Talon, walks through completely unhindered.
Just throwing this out there
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NzQmGTfV2s&list=UUYOiXAVTwLSFko673YgOTUA
Pardon the swearing but ya. Forte's notes: Good example of the W throw with Q and E not working.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-f4HRYxU_o
Standard Q+E wave clearing in lane. Annie completely ignores the CC components.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ4DCv8Vipg
Standard Q+E wave clear on a minion wave. The second melee minion receives damage, but completely ignores all CC.
Special note: audio missing from these videos due to Twitch's strange policies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1Mtg07dEoA
Q+E combo ontop of TF inbetween two caster blue minions. TF completely phases through Scatter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWE_C90MxdM
Flash over midlane wall, Q+E Vi and some of her teammates + creeps on the wall corner. Vi completely ignores Scatter and freely moves about while the rest are stunned/pushed back.
* NEW VIDEOS: PATCH 5.1 *
Bug still alive and well in patch 5.1 despite the changes to Scatter's hitbox with Dark Sphere. Although a lot more precise and difficult to replicate, the core fundamentals of the bug remain. As seen here, utmost right caster creep: http://media.giphy.com/media/3rgXByFB4GWsRxamiI/giphy.gif
Not stunned, even though, A) dark sphere goes through it, and B) the creep immediately above it is stunned instead.
~
http://giphy.com/gifs/3rgXBA3WDdmop6JRdK As seen here: clean failure by Q+E combo in any capacity to stop Jarvan's dash. Note: he hasn't executed his ultimate at all, so there is no 'unstoppable' frames interfering with CC.
~
As from Zeva
http://media.giphy.com/media/3xz2BMZOuiT1qBDOeY/giphy.gif Nidalee cleanly passes through Scatter's CC components, not being pushed back OR stunned in any capacity.
* NEW VIDEOS: PATCH 5.2 *
Syndra Scatter/Stun Bug Test https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6833073/Syndra%20bug%20patch%205.2.mp4
9:20->9:30 Caster creep in front of Ahri is completely ignored, hitting Ahri instead without issue. http://i.imgur.com/AJ4y3VB.gifv
11:10->11:20 Caster creep immediately behind cannon minion ignores dark sphere, despite Ahri and the minion behind it (and all ones in front) being hit. http://i.imgur.com/yyVM2zd.gifv
13:15->13:25 Ahri is hit by Scatter, takes damage, but does NOT receive any knockback CC whatsoever during normal side->to-side movement. http://i.imgur.com/6I3Kpib.gifv
Special note: The melee minion here isn't fully knocked back by Scatter, oddly, only going half way through the >ability's total KB range. Special note 2: A caster minion kicked back to the end damages the caster minion behind it, which is NEVER >hit by scatter. Not sure why? It's essentially a mini-lee sin kick in terms of functionality.
19:10->19:20 Caster creep by the tower ignores Q+E, even though it hits Ahri and minions behind it.
28:40->28:55 Dark Sphere dropped ontop of a cannon minion, Scatter launched. Scatter kicks minion back, Dark Sphere is >kicked immediately afterward, Dark Sphere goes flying past. Not sure if bug or displacement issue, but worth >scrunitizing as an odd technical example. http://i.imgur.com/wVui1Qq.gifv
29:35->29:45 Scatter by itself on a big creep wave with Ahri in the middle. 1) Not everything is pushed to Scatter's max >range as it should. B) The left side cannon minion is not affected by Scatter's CC period. It takes damage, but >its movement is not stopped whatsoever by knockback. http://i.imgur.com/2OQFqRx.gifv
36:35->36:45 Two caster minions by the Middle Lane Inhibitor turret receive Q damage, E damage, but completely ignore all >CC, and auto attack as normal. http://i.imgur.com/wCio4gq.gifv
37:00->37:15 Super Minion is hit by Q damage, and then E's damage, but is NOT affected by knockback in any capacity. >There is no frame stutter at all indicating knockback influenced it, which is a very distinct characteristic of >Scatter hitting. http://i.imgur.com/g7CIUdO.gifv
~
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaSwHrrDGsk General gameplay vs Nidalee. Q+E combo fails at least 3 times against her throughout early laning phase.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6zv3Acb0tA Q+E fails against Large Wolf on Red Team's jungle, the first instance of Q+E actually failing against a single target. Maybe a hitbox dislocation?
PATCH 5.3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK1xn9LGp3E Scatter by itself fails to knockback Cassiopeia at all. Notice how she is hit and there is no stutter in her movement - doubly, notice how creeps next to her are hit and shoved back but she is not.
--
Ignore any commentary about Patch 5.4. This video was done on Patch 5.3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8Yw6nQyLxU&feature=youtu.be 01:33->01:39 - Not the stun bug, though interesting to note: a target at the base of Syndra being pushed by E into a far away Q will not reach the Q in time to be stunned. Mulling this thought over - targets at the mid range of E are usually pushed into Q in time to be stunned.
03:29->03:38 - Odd case. Nidalee is riding E's pulse wave right beside a Q sphere, but I don't think her hitbox is touching it to be stunned. Really something I'd have to look at it in a raw hit box way to understand - slow watching the video doesn't make it clear. Won't say it's the bug definitively.
06:45->06:55 - E launches a Q straight up through the middle of 3 minions. Despite leaning towards one side, it only impacts the center and far side, ignoring the one closest to it when going through. Possible stun bug - all 3 should've been hit, really.
08:29->08:35 - Really strange stun instance. The /knockback/ component failed, but the /stun/ resolved on Nidalee correctly. The two minions immediate inside/next to her were pushed back, but Nidalee was simply stunned in place. I've never seen this occur before - if the stun works, that always meant the knockback worked too, unless the target was against terrain.
10:45->10:50 - Nidalee, a minion behind and infront of her, are stunned. However, a caster minion walking into a MOVING DARK SPHERE launched by Scatter is not hit or stunned. Quite possibly the bug.
12:04 - Actually did knock her back a little bit, despite what I say in the video. Or, I could be confusing Nidalee Cougar 'stop animation' for a knockback effect. Otherwise, quite similar to 08:29->08:35.
12:40->12:45 - Q+E goes right through 2 raptors, hitting the ones on the side but completely ignoring the top and bottom ones. Almost certainly the stun bug.
13:30->13:35 - Raptor test again, missed the big raptor and side raptor, hit the top and bottom. Could be stun bug or hit box.
15:40->15:50 - The melee minion that is near dead (having been hit by 2 abilities)(and is pinged) IGNORES E's knockback component, but receives damage. Definitely the stun bug.
16:45->16:55 - Q+E on raptor camp, only far left raptor hit, Q phases through the other 3 raptors despite the dark sphere hitting/passing through. Definitely the stun bug.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9XlH3Gn8kU Syndra Q+E onto Katarina while she is ontop of 2 Caster Minions. CC completely fails to work at all.
** PATCH 5.4**
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMZhcxTUx9M 00:45->00:52 Q+E on first cannon minion wave, the red cannon minion completely ignores Q+E despite it passing right through it. Definite stun bug.
01:35->01:40 Q+E into enemy raptor camp, missing the one raptor (pinged) at the back despite the dark sphere passing right by it. Could be hit box, inclined to think stun bug.
01:55->02:05 Q+E into enemy raptor camp, first raptor (pinged) completely ignores Q+E combo, phasing through damage and CC as if it wasn't there. Definitely the stun bug.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB86t-4gnfE Q+E combo straight through xerath, allowing him to quite safely retreat without issue, costing a kill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DJXAj61RzA Q+E onto Cassiopeia who was standing next to a minion. Totally fails to register, even despite her Cleanse, allowing her to freely chase and kill.
PATCH 5.5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ohheeMiCyI Q+E on a retreat from an enemy team initiate. Damages, but applies no CC to Sejuani and Soraka, who almost successfully clean up because of it.
PATCH 5.6
http://imgur.com/Ssh0pSN Cleanly passes through Orianna, not even applying damage.
http://imgur.com/iM6wKwQ Cleanly passes through Tristana, not even phasing her.
PATCH 5.7
http://imgur.com/Lrm0Mum Phases through Orianna and a Caster Minion directly in front of her, doing damage, but no CC.
Note, may or may not be patch 5.7 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X8Qvo8wPzQ&feature=share Standard Q+E combo on Ahri in lane, CC phases through her completely and fails to work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsVZ5VoqVL0 Vayne completely ignores the CC of the combo.
http://imgur.com/gvo4Mak Zyra completely ignores the CC of the combo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB9tWSbdCiw Note: Unknown patch version this occurred on. Extremely note worthy for being a solid occurrence of the Q+W+E combo bugging out, on a single target no less.
PATCH 5.8
Patch 5.9
Patch 5.10
No videos, bug still here though.
Patch 5.11
