Boards›Report a Bug

[Gameplay] Syndra's Broken Kit: 25 Patches and Onward

Overlord Forte·6/12/2015, 3:53:56 AM·110 votes·8,107 views

Hello.

In general, the following bugs have existed in some form within Syndra's kit for months, if not years, by now. With an exception of the champion specific ones (Veigar E, Zyra plants, etc), I've kept an eye on them for over 25 patches now. Syndra's Q+E stun bug in particular, and the related E knockback bug, have proven perhaps the worst one of all, completely robbing the reliability of her incredibly important stun combo. You'll find the threadnaught I created on that in its entry article below.

I could say a lot about Syndra's competitive balance, but I'm going to be honest, these bugs are the biggest issue I will put my credibility on. No one wants to use a champion where every vital part of their kit can - and will - fail randomly, without warning, and quite possibly at the worst time. No one wants to deal with the one window they have to win their lane slip away because a stun didn't land like it should have. No one wants to watch a jungler chase them down and walk through their only CC like it didn't even exist.

I've often alluded to the plethora of bugs plaguing Syndra's kit, not just her broken stun. To help centralize this knowledge base, and expose all the wonky broken parts of her kit, I'm creating this thread. Any evidence you have, particularly video/gif/gycat, would be very useful to me for analysis. Thank you.

I'll be updating this post generally on the status of each individual bug. I'll refrain from spam dumping videos in this thread due to how poorly this forum takes huge media posts. You can find my real time video bug tracking list here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6o_Jh1Wm2f54JKXGW6zJwe5r4t4mawU4

Bugs still being researched:

W throw cursor bug (When grabbing/throwing an object, player cursor turns into a ping menu/stops working, requiring clicking of the mini map and or escape menu to unbreak)

Q+E max range whiff bug (Using E at a max range casted Q will sometimes just not launch the sphere. May be a bug or a small 10-20 unit dead zone, but this radically affects her long range stun sniping sometimes).

Syndra Q+E Stun Bug Behavior: Any Dark Spheres launched by Scatter the Weak have a strong and reasonably consistent chance of not working as intended. In general, launched Dark Spheres will: Not stun, not knockback, not apply damage. They will phase through their targets as if they don't exist, causing the combo to functionally break.

Reproduction steps:

Step 1: Create a Dark Sphere. Simply dropping one with Q is enough, more have a higher chance of generating the bug. Step 2: Launch a Dark Sphere by using Scatter of the Weak, preferrably into multiple simultaneous targets. Step 3: Observe for lack of knockback, stun, and or damage. May require repeat application (bug consistently intermittent.)

Video evidence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYf30zbsoRk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a__sNUck6bo

Additional thread of more evidence: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/bug-report/8UbfJEPt-gameplay-syndras-broken-stunkb-10-patches-and-counting (Warning: Massive load time).

NOTE: This bug was largely fixed in Patch 5.13, however fringe behavior is still occurring. Please report any situations you run into.

Syndra E Knockback Bug Behavior: A relative of the Q+E stun bug, this is simply Scatter the Weak's knockback component failing. Any pulse wave from this ability may hit the target, sometimes do damage, and completely fail to shove back one or more entities it hits.

Reproduction steps:

Step 1: Sit in range of multiple targets, either stationary or moving. Step 2: Use Scatter the Weak, observe for targets hit but not shoved or moved by the ability in any capacity.

Video evidence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU1Z_UbRTz8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHOgmteuRF8

Additional notes: I've never seen the E bug work on a single target. If it triggers, it has exclusively been on a minimum of TWO targets, scaling upward. Solo targets to the best of my experience and memory remain 100% effective to knockback.

NOTE: This bug was seemingly fixed in Patch 5.13. Please report any new occurrences of the bug in this version or later.

Syndra Q+E Bounce Bug Behavior: A relative of the stun bug, this is rarer but even more bizarre. Any Dark Sphere hit by Scatter the Weak has a chance to completely bounce backwards from the direction it should have launched in. This is not a graphical glitch: the Dark Sphere is still a valid entity (can be manipulated by W and R) and stun targets in its new flight path.

Reproduction steps:

Step 1: Use Scatter the Weak on Dark Spheres. (Possible modifiers: near by terrain, number of targets hit by Scatter) Step 2: Observe for any Dark Spheres suddenly flying in the wrong direction. This bug is very intermittent, but consistently occurs.

Video evidence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeSKBIWLoFA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDXVShGjkD4

Syndra Q+W+E Slow Bug Behavior: Dark Spheres thrown by Force of Will and launched by Scatter the Weak lose their stun and knockback properties. Instead, the launched Dark Spheres acquire Force of Will's slow property, effectively turning it into a long range slow skill shot, not a stun.

Reproduction steps:

Step 1: Create a Dark Sphere, then grab it with Force of Will. Step 2: Throw the Dark Sphere. Step 3: Use Scatter the Weak when the Dark Sphere is in mid flight, observe for the launched sphere failing to stun/kb. Step 3.1: Alternatively, use Scatter the Weak on a Dark Sphere that has /just landed/, observe for failed stun/kb.

Video evidence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLa-0HGL49g

Syndra Q Damage Dislocation Bug Behavior: Dark Sphere, upon being cast, will sometimes simply not damage targets in its blast zone. The hitbox moves sometimes, or selectively ignore random targets, for reasons that are unclear. It can happen in any part of the ability and doesn't necessarily seem related to how many targets its hitting.

Reproduction steps:

Step 1: Cast Dark Sphere Step 2: Observe the damage of all targets, their locations, and their relationship to the blast zone. The cast marker can be useful for this, but sometimes it's blatant enough to just stand out. Step 3: Repeat as necessary, this bug seems infrequent largely due to how hard it is to notice it in motion sometimes.

Video evidence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcAWFrICaj0

Syndra W Dislocation Bug Behavior: Objects thrown by Force of Will do not have the impact zone align correctly. Often the graphical animation and actual damage hit box operate in completely separate ways. One will generate in one location, the other in another.

Reproduction steps:

Step 1: Grab an object with Force of Will. Dark Spheres are the easiest, followed by minions, but it generally doesn't matter. Step 2: Throw the object, observe the impact zone. The thrown object will usually jitter/move around, and the 'explosion aura' may be completely set off to the side. Step 2.1: To assess the hitbox, throw the object into minion waves. Observe the graphic animation, the ability cast icon, and the impact of the object. You will see damage apply when it shouldn't, or damage not apply when it should.

Video evidence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f9xvL99yx4

Additional notes: Thrown objects behave incredibly weird with Force of Will. 'Living objects' (minions, monsters, etc) are the strangest as they actively fight being thrown, quite possibly torking the hitbox in their own way. Dark Spheres behave the same, though they don't move.

Syndra W Break Bug Behavior: Force of Will breaks when CC is applied during it's 'grab' and 'pre-throw' phase. CC (stuns/silences/fears/suppression, anything that prevents abilities) will cause it to go on cooldown while the held object is still grabbed and simply let the leash time expire.

Reproduction steps:

Step 1: Grab an object with Force of Will. Step 2: While Force of Will is grabbing, or 'about to throw', apply disabling CC. Step 3: Repeat as necessary, this bug is timing sensitive for a specific window of process.

Video evidence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f3djTdQhI4

Syndra W Throw Break Bug Behavior: Force of Will can break when throwing 'special creatures', namely Heimdinger turrets and Zyra plants, though this CAN happen on normal minion/monsters. Essentially, the thrown object flies, but usually half way into its flight, it will 'break' by stalling in the air, jittering, then falling immediately to the ground or even going backwards. This is not a visual bug as the entity's location is legitimate and the damage moves with it.

Reproduction steps:

Step 1: Grab an object or special object (Heimer Turret, Zyra Plant) with Force of Will. Step 2: Throw it at any range, though max range is the easiest to observe. Step 3: Repeat as necessary, the bug is intermittent.

Video evidence:

This bug may have been stealth patched or fixed. Unable to reproduce on 5.11, but will observe (I'm pretty sure it still exists).

Syndra Q+E vs Veigar E Bug Behavior: Veigar's Event Horizon stops Dark Spheres launched by Scatter the Weak. While it depends on the angle, and how many targets are hit, Event Horizon will stop Dark Spheres at its edges. This is not a graphical issue: the hitbox itself full stops.

Reproduction steps:

Step 1: Create Dark Spheres, let Veigar drop Event Horizon. Step 2: Launch Dark Spheres with Scatter the Weak into the 'walls' and 'pillars', respectively. Step 2.1: For additional bugginess, be sure to hit minions/champions in or near the Event Horizon boundary. Step 3: Observe for stopped stuns and frozen Dark Spheres.

Video evidence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hb72fdkPFM

Syndra R Stutter Step Bug Behavior: Unleashed Power causes Syndra herself to 'frame desync' and her model just stutters around in place for a few seconds. Her actual movement doesn't seem to be interrupted, she's just visibly skipping all over the place. This tends to go away after a second or two, it varies. Sphere count doesn't generally seem to influence its likelihood of triggering.

Reproduction steps:

Step 1: Fire Unleashed Power, it will sometimes trigger regardless of a kill or dodge effect. Step 1.1: Fire Unleashed Power at someone who Zhonya's/Dodges (vlad pool, etc), causing the ability to whiff. This can generate the stutter step bug. Step 1.2: Kill someone with Unleashed Power, usually causes the stutter step bug.

Video evidence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMoOHMz_zh0

Additional notes: This bug has varying severity. Sometimes it's very noticeable and she'll frame skip a whole champion length away, otherwise it's a kind of in-place buzzing. Regardless, it's difficult to tell if her hit box is moving with her model too, so dodging can be an incredible pain when it's active.

65 Comments

EmeraldShift6/12/2015, 6:12:40 AM41 votes

This is probably one of the most comprehensive, well-written bug reports I've seen in a while. item 2054 Have a poro-snax.

Penta Penguin6/12/2015, 3:40:50 PM5 votes

I just watched all those videos; this is F'ing ridiculous. It makes me think Syndra was coded using wonky gimmicks (like the Dark Orb is actually a minion using a dash ability if you E it). What other skill-shot in the game gets stopped by a veigar wall? None.

Syndra is already pretty difficult to play, i had no idea her shit doesn't even work though.

Mansana6/12/2015, 7:52:34 AM5 votes

  • The damage dislocation bug on Q and/or W has been causing me to lose wave control and maybe even cs. (Thoughts on W though are that it feels clunky as the game goes on mostly because the arc and missile speed of W are not efficient at certain distances. The closer they are the easier and faster the W gets to hit the enemy. When enemy champs get mobility from getting or upgrading boots, it becomes a hassle to even get the edge of the skill shot to hit them. Probably harder to land than an Xerath Ulti from my personal experience.)

  • The stun bug itself I have yet to see happen on champions on patch 5.11 although on minions and monster camps its really easy to replicate. I probably have to play more games to see if it occurs. I was sure that the stealth fix Riot added was helping a bit but I guess it'll be continued to be monitored.

  • Haven't seen the Q+E bounce back bug on this 5.11 patch so it could be gone, but who knows. Riot didn't announce anything but hey, bugs can easily fly back and annoy you.

  • Stutter step bug is just annoying.

  • Veigar one is new to me since I hardly play against a Veigar.

Syndra is love, Syndra is life. Riot seriously needs some pesticide or call Orkin. I'm struggling to live and play with these bugs.

F for Fish6/13/2015, 7:23:18 PM5 votes

On behalf of Syndra mains everywhere, thank you for putting the amount of time into this that you did.

manbearswine6/12/2015, 3:30:52 PM3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Overlord Forte,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=xPiujtP2,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-06-12T03:53:56.004+0000)

I could say a lot about Syndra's competitive balance,

Oh? do tell.

Cerulean Laser6/12/2015, 8:20:52 PM2 votes

I can confirm this, she has had this bug since she released lol.

Vistha Kai6/12/2015, 11:25:50 AM2 votes

Long time no see. Hello, OverloreForte.

  • I don't remember how Q behaved before, but lately I've seen it being warped or moved outside terrain, which might be the source of the problem there. Basically Q in a wall, E immediately and if the ball doesn't go past the mid-point of a wall it goes to the closest free space ("bounces of the wall").

  • E is FUBAR in general.

  • Obviously "Throw Break" one isn't really Syndra related, but it sits in the code of a minion. The part which makes them immobile, I presume.

  • W going on CD because of CC, that's annoying one, too.

  • Haven't seen a lot of damage dislocation, though. Maybe. Sometimes I think I should hit stuff with W, but I only feel like it when using it at max range and they are running away.

Penta Penguin6/12/2015, 2:58:52 PM2 votes

inb4 Dark Spheres are reskinned minions

UnfathomableWin6/12/2015, 4:31:30 PM2 votes

Another bug I've noticed: You could throw her dark sphere over into the drag pit from the back wall, but if I tried to scatter it past drag it would just stop at drag instead of carrying to the enemy team, even though I checked the distance and tried to repeat in bots, same effect. Drag simply stopped the scattered ball from traveling past it's feet, even while it's knockback had already been launched etc. However on the same note I tried it from the entrance of drag pit and the ball clearly moves from the gate at drag pit to the back of the pit with no problem. Always thought it was weird, but never figured out why that happened. After seeing this I should try it again on the new 5.11 patch just for summoner 13

Ayame Isaki6/12/2015, 7:25:56 PM2 votes

I just got into Syndra (experimenting to find another mid to add to my bench) and noticed a few of these. I thought I was just using her wrong (I very well may be, but at least I know it isn't 100% my fault... probably). I hope Riot addresses these soon.

Jofeyy6/12/2015, 9:09:48 PM2 votes

I love syndra and still main her to this day. 100% of what you said here is true and her unreliability makes her a great weakness to my mid performance. But she's so damn fun to play and strong when abilities do work that I refuse to ever give her up. I REALLY hope riot steps up to this, they cant ignore the evidence in this post.

Thank you for taking the time to do this, Syndra mains everywhere are grateful.

Squidblimp6/12/2015, 9:40:36 PM2 votes

There is actually a huge bug with every skillshot where occasionally the skillshot will pass through the target and miss completely. Happens with Ashe arrows, Veigar's Q, etc. Riot is actually rewriting the entire code that determines how skilllshots work right now, and then they will be able to apparently easily eliminate bugs with this new system. So sit tight. Riot's working on it.

Ariel the Cruel6/12/2015, 8:58:39 PM1 votes

Azir Quinn Can empathize. Nidalee Seems to be hiding under a carpet somewhere. (yes, I'm stirring the pot, even if it doesn't really apply.) Yorick Just laughs and polishes his trophy for "single most bugs, WTF's, and champion disables caused by a single ability".

Jokes aside. Nice topic. Have an upvote.

Vistha Kai7/8/2015, 9:21:40 AM1 votes

Syndra Fixed a million bugs with Scatter the Weak's various interactions with other spells and champion abilities.

All hail the Queen! http://36.media.tumblr.com/3750cf58d16f194e0cbaf88c7c12342c/tumblr_mudbpzEGhQ1rna804o1_1280.jpg

Overlord Forte7/21/2015, 1:26:02 AM1 votes

Bump.

New evidence of the stun bug still persisting in Patch 5.13. Notably the patch has greatly improved the reliability of her stun combo, this is the first 'verified' incident of the stun bug happening. Edge cases exist that may be the result of different bugs.

Stackless Python6/12/2015, 9:56:36 PM1 votes

Well written and documented, shame none of this will be fixed for years. Love the example videos to visually show the bugs.

For Carthage6/13/2015, 3:33:47 AM1 votes

I can say I've experienced all of these bugs but the bounce bug. That one's new to me and mystifies me as to how the hell it works.

On the flip side, there's one I've been wondering that wasn't included here: Syndra used to pretty reliably place down a sphere and immediately E it while it was forming, which would result in passing on the original dark sphere damage in addition to the E's stun damage. While you can still pull this off, it's in an incredibly tight sweet spot to try and hit, which usually if you do it too early will result in the sphere not moving at all. I didn't see this as one of the changes to her E in the initial collision nerf patch, but it is incredibly persistent and annoying to deal with - trying to rock the combo to get the maximum potential out of your champ while continually resulting in disappointment when the sphere doesn't move is absolutely upsetting.

There's also, if you have time, a bug that I noticed when you face LeBlanc with Syndra - in theory I was originally using Syndra early on as a counter to LeBlanc, as Scatter the Weak, correctly timed, should stop LeBlanc's dashes, effectively preventing damage. While this should work flawlessly, there have been multiple times in which LeBlanc has been pushed to the side during her dash rather than back and away. It leaves her in range to then continue her combo, and on top of that is such a jarring thing to happen because you never expect it - I've had it happen three times in a single game and each time I was still surprised because it's utterly inconsistent. I'm not sure if this happens with all dashes, but if you'd like, it'd be another bug to check out to add to the report. Hopefully enough bugs will force Riot to actually acknowledge how badly they've fucked up her E.

SlowChemical6/13/2015, 8:41:07 AM1 votes

There's a chance the new projectile system coming in 5.12 could fix some of the problems with the sphere's not connecting correctly. Here's hoping.

Fasmodey6/12/2015, 10:59:45 AM1 votes

This champion is worse than Azir in bug-wise. Really, will they ever try to fix her? Using your W-E combo and seeing that it didn't stun is so painful. Then you realise there are champions that can't be nerfed but if they got so much plays they get some little shit nerfs that doesn't affect them but still losing a little bit popularity, after this they get huge buffs. Woah, yeah I'm talking about Zed, Riven, Gragas, Rengar. Zed is probably the best one in all of them, still you can outplay it, not like Rengar who can delete you in 0.00001 second, not like Riven who can 1vs5 pentakill and escapes with full hp with her skilled, balanced shield. Some champions really dont get respect like others and this type ones are most likely immobile mages, who require more skill than Riven, Gragas.

Peakes6/14/2015, 1:19:46 AM1 votes

Huh, I've experienced so many of these problems during ranked. Funny how I come across this topic because I was actually just watching your game as Syndra yesterday on the featured games. Keep up the work! +1 Also, in your game, I noticed you build hextech for spellvamp. How useful is that? I've thought about it, would appreciate your thoughts, thanks!

Razorex6/12/2015, 6:30:51 PM1 votes

The majority of these buggs came from the patch where they nerfed her Q and and stun width, before that her stun was still not perfect but WAY better than the current one. It disgusts me that Riot has simply forgot about her and done nothing since.

Vistha Kai6/20/2015, 10:44:19 AM1 votes

Holy shit, it's happening!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W6as8oVcuM

http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/bugs/bjHv6TEy-513-fix-candidate-for-syndra-eq

Baseball3b6/12/2015, 4:03:20 PM1 votes

+1

The Q+E stun bug has cost me several kills and games. Being a Syndra main, nothing would make me happier than seeing these bug fixes that are quite frankly, long overdue.

Also, I've had issues where, after using my W, my cursor changes to the ping crosshairs, leaving me unable to click on my mini map or ping until it randomly changes back. Not sure if this is a bug though, as it could just be something on my end.