As of 4/19 PBE, Syndra's MYMU is poised to make her worse and unhealthy

Overlord Forte··163 votes·14,107 views

Hi, I main Syndra. The current MYMU details available do not appear to answer Syndra's problems, and may potentially make her unhealthy as a champion for future concerns. Here's why.


At the moment, the two chief changes are Syndra's Q damage, and then her sphere life timer mechanics.

As we approach her Q, it has the following:

>NEW: 50 / 95 / 140 / 185 / 230 (0.70 AP) >OLD: 50 / 95 / 140 / 185 / 230 (0.60 AP) + [15% damage to champions, Rank 5]

This is an immediate nerf to the damage of her Q, with only a marginal increase in damage for Ranks 1->4. At Rank 5, it is an immediate loss in damage in any appreciable, realistic way, due to the (-34) damage from no longer having [+15% damage to champions]. You can realistically expect to have [5-10] extra damage from the new ratio Ranks 1-4. It will take around 300-500 AP for her new ratio to recover the loss of the (34) flat damage Rank 5 onward. This is functionally detrimental with no meaningful benefit. ###Edit: I will append, the current mechanic is ((230+0.6 AP)+15% damage to champions) = total damage. The 15% modifies total damage, just not the base. This is actually more damage than cited above, see this comment for detail. ###

As we approach her life timer mechanics, it has the following:

>NEW: Dark Sphere's Rank 5 passive increases Dark Sphere life timers to 8 seconds (from 6). >NEW: Force of Will's Rank 5 passive will now grab up to 2 additional (max of 3) Dark Spheres around its target.

The tempo mechanics that define her kit have been completely shot out of the window.

For levels [1-8], Syndra's tempo mechanics are the same as they are on current live servers (patch 6.8 and backwards). After level 9 and Rank 5 Dark Sphere, the accessibility of her ultimate's tempo completely distorts. In all appreciable situations, her first ramping moment (that is, when she's building a new set of dark spheres) matches the current live server. However, afterwards, it becomes different.

Now that all spheres possess 2 extra seconds, two things happen: the Window of Power (WOP) for her 6 sphere ultimate is extended by around 2-3 seconds, and her 7 sphere ultimate is now immediately accessible at around 20% CDR. The spheres will last long enough for her 7 sphere ultimate to be regularly accessible with just this change alone. However, once level 13 is achieved, and Rank 5 Force of Will unlocked, Syndra's WOP on her ultimate extends to ludicrous proportions.

  1. In the case of 6 spheres, this means Syndra can exert the pressure of her 6 sphere ultimate's threat from its usual [1-3] seconds, to over 8+ seconds, depending on CDR. In fact, with Blue Buff and the new Elemental Dragon buff, Syndra can maintain a 6 sphere count functionally indefinitely.
  2. Her 7 sphere ultimate, a rare high point that is one of the best single target nukes in the game, has its WOP increase from [0.5-1.5] seconds to around [3-5] seconds. Due to the fact that she can infinitely maintain her 6 sphere count, her 7 sphere ultimate's window's only downtime is as long as her 4th sphere's cooldown.

All timing mechanics required to monitor her spheres, understand when to ramp count, or when to plan for those very small WOPs, have effectively been flattened. It is now extremely easy to maintain the highest sphere counts of her ultimate, which means the full accessibility of her ultimate's damage is extremely common and reliable. It was never designed to have that in mind.


As is currently, this will make Syndra unhealthy because of how accessible her ultimate is now. It will have to receive damage nerfs to bring it in line, which will leave her worse than her prior version before the MYMU of 2016.

The multi-sphere throw of her W is funny, but not functionally appreciable. There are use situations where the W+Q->E stun, as it seemingly wants to reinforce, are suboptimal to use. The W+Q->E combo is inherently slow and not a wise choice to use when fast stuns are required. It is not optimal to use in team fights because of the flight time of the spheres, either. In order of priority, it would not be unsound to consider this combo to be her third or fourth choice in utilizing her stun.

The multi-sphere throw also does not increase W's effective damage radius appreciably. At best, it appears to rectangularly improve the hit box by about 15% in both directions. Refer to the suboptimal use cases mentioned earlier for her stun; otherwise, it's a conditional improvement to W's hitbox that is ... questionably desirable.

The Q changes are a straight damage downgrade, though easy to rectify by simply improving the base damage of this skill.

Her E's cooldown being lowered is a straight buff, admittedly.

Her ultimate will be easily accessible with little thought or planning required, mandating it to be nerfed to compensate for the extreme amount of damage it will do. This will ultimately lower her functional contributions as a damage-oriented carry, and the addition of 'multi-throw' does not appreciably increase her CC or AoE utility to compensate for that.

I would consider a serious re-evaluation of what your goals are for Syndra in the MYMU, because touching her sphere's life timers radically alters how her kit behaves. I cannot perceive this as a possibly healthy direction for, if her ultimate's damage is nerfed in anyway, it will be markedly worse utilizing her than before the update. This is to speak nothing of the massive reduction in her skill floor, skill ceiling, and the rewards for having an expertise in those, due to the extreme ease of using W's multi-throw refresh mechanic.

Unless that is the desired outcome?

133 Comments

LankPants58 votes

This is an immediate nerf to the damage of her Q, with only a marginal increase in damage for Ranks 1->4. At Rank 5, it is an immediate loss in damage in any appreciable, realistic way, due to the (-34) damage from no longer having [+15% damage to champions]. You can realistically expect to have [5-10] extra damage from the new ratio Ranks 1-4. It will take around 300-500 AP for her new ratio to recover the loss of the (34) flat damage Rank 5 onward. This is functionally detrimental with no meaningful benefit.

Unfortunately you're wrong, I made you a graph to show the equivalence point, don't think you're ever reaching it though. It's 3450 AP for new Q to be better.

http://imgur.com/rI9pmbn

Overlord Forte91 votes

"You're wrong,"

Ok, I think, Maybe I jumped the gun -

"It's actually 3,450 AP."

I'm wrong in the worst way imaginable.

LankPants11 votes

Syndra's getting a 1 damage increase per hundred AP, that's basically nothing, it's going to take a lot of AP to get 34.5 damage out of that.

Demacry2 votes

{quoted}

Syndra's getting a 1 damage increase per hundred AP, that's basically nothing, it's going to take a lot of AP to get 34.5 damage out of that.

it's actually a 10 damage per 100 AP .6 to .7 scaling means 60% to 70%

Syndracising12 votes

Nope because she already has a 0.69 scaling with her 15% damage amp of her passive on life

Ñapoleoni5 votes

r/theydidthemath

Syndracising18 votes

So do i get this right? They nerfed her Q damage. They dramatically reduced the skill you need for Syndra because how easy you can do 7 Sphere ults and massive Aoe stuns and still didnt fix any of her real problems? Do i really need to just press like 3 buttons to do the most difficult combo of her now with her 7 sphere ultimate?

Overlord. Save us pls. This is like the worst thing that could possibly happen to Syndra. It looks like she does need dramatically less skill to succed than before now. I dont know what to say to be honest. Im kinda shocked.

FantasySniper5 votes

If [Q] scaling became (+65 / 70 / 75 / 80 / 85% AP), it would only take 216 AP at rank 5. I think that would be a suitable compensation for at least Dark Sphere's damage.

Rubichasm31 votes

Syndra I was excited for the update... Now I'm scared.

Syndracising9 votes

me too. Reducing her skill ceiling that hard is like the worst that could have happend in my opinion.

Pierce The Veal3 votes

{quoted}

me too. Reducing her skill ceiling that hard is like the worst that could have happend in my opinion.

Wait where't the player going to stand if the skill floor also haplens to be the skill ceiling? There won't be any room between the floor and ceiling!

Syndracising1 votes

My bad one the wording ment the skill floor

Pierce The Veal2 votes

{quoted}

My bad one the wording ment the skill floor

I should stop posting on mobile :/

Makes my posts look like shit.

Pyrrhos11 votes

Introduction to The Problem:

I'll admit, I'm no where near as acclaimed regarding Syndra as Overlord Forte, but instead am Gold 5 player with Syndra as my most played in Ranked and just shy of 100k mastery points (although my Gangplank mastery is almost thrice that). Overlord Forte has a very strong point that the access to the 6 sphere and 7th sphere ultimates can be a huge problem. People don't like spells the just flat out kill targets with little counterplay (Hello updates to Annie and Veigar). These changes will produce a much more reliable instakill button on an out of position carry, support, or even some bruiser top laners and junglers. Syndra's ultimate is meant to be a her throwing down spells until she loses control and creates a mass barrage of spheres (Her lore excerpt describes this quite well while being somewhat ambiguous). In game I feel it should reflect that, and as of Live, it does. She slowly begins her aggression, Q'ing to either harass or farm, doing it again then using W, which you don't do often, leading to a WEQ to lead the ultimate. You see her influence and power grow as she casts her spells so you know when the hurt will come, but to someone not ready it's a big surprise, just like her lore.

The Bottom Line Syndra faces:

The problems that current Syndra has is 2 things in my regard: Inability to function around enemy tanks and trouble dealing with easily obtainable defensive stats through Negatron Cloak to Abyssal Scepter and Hexdrinker into Maw of Malmortious. These issues can be solved by either giving her better damage to deal with the tanks and MR items, or better utility and reliability to help her overall as a champion. In addition, the new passive for her maxed Q severely lowers her skill floor and skill ceiling, making an iconic part of her (her difficulty) no longer relevant.

Potential Solutions:

Now I will admit as well the E change is nice and deals with tanks remotely well. Keeping them at bay more often than not is a good thing for her, even though it's more of a laning change than a teamfighting/skirmishing one since Scatter is usually maxed 2nd. However, this does not really deal with Syndra's actual damage against these tanks or champions that itemize MR early.

A potential solution to this would be to give her more reliability with Scatter by automatically shoving opponents on her character model (think Lee Sin's Resonating Strike, Zed's Death Mark, Maokai's Twisted Advance, etc) to be pushed with the wavefront instead of being sent at an angle (usually perpendicular to the E cast which isn't even in the cone).

Another option was to allow her to deal with MR easier by giving %Magic Pen based on their Bonus MR (kinda like Yasuo's Ultimate). This would be functioning well as a replacement for her old Q passive (the 15% bonus damage to champions or the 8 second spheres). This doesn't make her that much more dangerous against squishy targets since they typically don't get more than maybe 1 MR item and then an Aegis aura from a jungler/support/top laner. However this allows her to be able to actually hit frontline targets and make a dent into them, since at the moment if you have even just two MR items you can easily charge at her and kill her if you dodge her Scatter.

Giving an incentive to max Force of Will in certain situations would help her greatly as well. One idea posted on the Syndra subreddit was to allow the rank 5 Force of Will no longer slow, but give a small knockup with a very small pushback (Like Vel'Koz's Tectonic Disruption). This couples her idea of growing power than an increased slow, which doesn't mean too much since slows are not tough to come by and on top of that slow resistance is very popular. This change would allow Syndra players to be more thoughtful on their skill maxing, and make their Transcendent spell more of a foreshadowed surprise. Right now E is maxed 2nd just because it's mana cost doesn't ramp and it's better for killing other immobile targets (since more uptime means more options for stuns). Maxing W 2nd is only done when you are against a quicker target and you are building mana to warrant it (Tear or RoA, but RoA being the only really viable one atm). The assassins/mobile opponents will use their movement to dodge your stun, so maxing Force of Will 2nd lets you get damage off on them still when they go for those engages. The new item changes allow for both maxes to take place without having to heavily alter her build path (Tear into Nomicon is looking like the go to now).

One small thing would be to allow all spheres from failed ultimates to still land on the ground. Right now if they hit Windwall or Unbreakable they drop, but when a target goes untargettable (Death Mark, Playful, Zhonya's), the spheres fizzle, removing a part of Syndra's ultimate that is almost if not as important as the damage itself, and that is the follow up spells with all the spheres. This would be a small but effective change against those matchups.

Lastly Syndra's reward for getting 3 ranks into her Unleashed Power feels very subpar. The range increase is nice don't get me wrong, but by the time you get it the game is almost over is honestly is over already. I feel like giving her a sudden burst of movement speed would be a good option so that she can get up her damage, ult, then immediately reposition against those who oppose her. Right now you can with Stormraider's Surge, but doubling down on that would not be too huge of a problem (She isn't as consistent dps as say Jinx, and on top of that she can't chain them from one kill to the next).

Conclusion:

Overlord Forte may have some bias as being a Mage main (his go to's being Syndra and Lissandra), but my top 3 consists of Syndra and two people I almost play primarily top (Gangplank and Riven), and I still believe that he is correct in the sense that these changes don't seem to push Syndra in the direction she is needing, and thematically don't make her very unique. The idea of ramping damage is better displayed with Brand and Vel'Koz's reworks at the moment, and Syndra lacks that touch of build up into heavy single target burst followed by utility. Do all the solutions I listed need to be implemented, please no. All of these being put in would make her beyond strong. However I think they are all ideas that have justification and some of them here and there would help her in the long run. She is a fantastic champion despite all the bugs she has had over the years, but she will be one I continue to play. I just don't want her to end up in a worse place since the wrong things were addressed.

Syndracising3 votes

Very good explanation. YOu listed really a lot of things i thought of too. Hopefully Riot sees this and cares :c.

Jofeyy7 votes

I agree 100%

Save our queen Syndra

Akumu6 votes

Signed. Scrap these shit changes entirely, fix her bugs, thanks.

Stuttering after ulting has been in the game how fucking long now?

Hufflepuff2 votes

{quoted}

Signed. Scrap these shit changes entirely, fix her bugs, thanks.

Stuttering after ulting has been in the game how fucking long now?

I THOUGHT THIS WAS JUST ME WTF AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

DarkMalandor6 votes

The fact alone that her 7 sphere ult is so much easier makes me kinda depressed. The entire reason I got Syndra as one of my first champions was because I wanted to learn and master a high skill champion. Making her windows for both her massive AoE Stuns and 7 Sphere ult larger/longer is going to make her oppressive and not in the good way.

I could care less about the damage loss on q. Yeah it sucks. But I am honestly more irritated that she is going to much simpler to play. All the time I spent learning the timing on her 7 sphere ult and the q reseting with w is going to mean nothing. And that IS FRUSTRATING >_<

Bisaknosp5 votes

wow they are shifting power to her ultimate

now she is even more ult reliant and more useless in teamfights gj garbage riot
she will fall off even more lategame

Wheatloaf5 votes

Damn, this has to be one of the most civil, well thought-out complaint threads I have seen in a long time. I have newfound respect for Syndra mains. Seriously, this is a Malicious Metal level of dedication, here.

Night Lotus4 votes

Rant and Fustration

I'm extremely unhappy with these Syndra changes. Makes her unbelievably easy and accessible without solving her issues. Syndra's been a part of my life since I started the game, and while I don't have 500k mastery with her she's been apart of me prior to mastery, is my highest mastery champion, and my favourite champion to play. I don't want these changes at all! I asked a while ago "will we see something akin to the true damage on q and wider cone on E changes" and I got a yes. I don't want these changes at all!

Worst of all, Riot hasn't even given a context thread for Syndra players who are dealing with her passive changing how accessible she is noticeably, are you joking? These are not the changes we were reassured of! And speaking of changes, with the big six you've basically redone NONE of Vel'Koz's abilities? Just slapped his ult with true damage and done number changes differently, no new art or any of that needed. While Syndra has a lackluster passive that could've benefited so much more with the big six update! I expected the "big six" as riot has said to be "big" due to visual and mechanical changes, not number tweaking and true damage.

Riot, we Syndra players are happy with how she works and pulling off a seven ball ultimate feels satisfying to us. Syndra at the moment is getting punished hard by tanks, and while I think it's good to be weak, she suffers tremendously with her E suffering from pushing things such as Zed, Talon, Mao'Kai etc because of bugs or awkward positioning of her E. She should be able to push people off her or slightly behind her away and it's frustrating the minute someone clips the edge and doesn't get pushed back.

End rant for that.

What do the Syndra players want?:

  • Not these changes on the current PBE.

  • A passive that succeeds in bringing her fantasy into the game, while keeping her current playstyle similar. (AOE Control mage, lane bully, single target nuke, high skill ceiling and skill floor).

  • Give us a context thread and ASK US!

What I think would be a good idea or would prefer over these changes that you could apply sooner rather than in a years time:

  • I would prefer the old idea you threw out on PBE a while ago with the bigger E and true damage to champions on Q so that she can scale stronger into late game and remain as a damage threat against the cheap MR items. Give W that grounded debuff similar to Cass rework one, or knockup, and leave R same or provide it that after he cast she gains some kind of self buff or something that feels POWERFUL to the player.

**What Syndra players really want changed: **

  • We want her passive to be adjusted for her W and R. Give us a feeling of POWER, not "extra range/bigger AOE". We are fine with how her passive works for Q and E relatively speaking. They satisfy her fantasy and may just need like before the true damage to champions with Q, or the bigger width/range with the cone and pushback to enemies that are directly behind or are on her.

We do not want our beloved champion to suffer and be left in a state worse prior to the MYMU, please listen to us.

Shavidar4 votes

Well the passive still doesn't change anything till lvl 9 and she is even more ult reliant than she was before. Dealing with tanks and Maw users was already hard, but with the q damage nerf, she will feel even more defenseless after her ult is gone. If they really nerf the ult damage later on in the following patches... Well i expected something different, like maybe shorter cast animation time on max q or grounded debuff on w or an e which can fire an ultra long stun after a charge up time.

Goosetard3 votes

If i can hold 3 dark spheres with an E, and (as live) they can't time out while I hold them, can't I do an 8 ball ultimate now?

Syndracising5 votes

Nope its still capped by 7 spheres

Star Ng Pasko19 votes

No. There's a 7 balls limit hardcoded. Also in theory you could've done a 9 balls ulti without this limit.

Goosetard4 votes

well **** me I learned something new today.

lofi n chillhop3 votes

TLDR

"syndra will do marginally less damage on her q but will have much more reliable damage with her other spells, allowing her to not rely on landing q poke. nebies who throw her ult out randomly will do real damage instead of nothing, and not fail completely"

this makes her unhealthy."

o.O wtf I don't follow your logic. this sounds like it turns syndra from being playable only by the hardcore mains who understand the windows of her damage, to instead be playable by any player without needing to be veteran level experience to access reliable damage and not feel completely useless.

this IMO makes her HEALTHY for once...

Syndracising19 votes

Good players now have a disadvantage on her because she has less damage because good players already could do a 7 sphere ult. Bad players can now easily play her because she doesnt have that much to actually care off except spam Q and press R now? Where is there no logic? 7 Sphere ults were hard to pull of but rewarded you with insane damage AND you needed to stack spheres which was really obvious and gave the enemie reaction time to run or disengage. New Syndra can now instantly Ult with 7 spheres and delete you without much counterplay. Where is that healthy?

lofi n chillhop2 votes

she can throw three spheres now instead of only one. this lets her hit more targets than before, dealing more damage. this applies to both skilled players and new players.

she can now set spheres up a lot easier. sure, a skiled player is used to setting them up at key times - but being skilled enough to set up spheres at good times, is still going to get a lot more options when it's easier to set spheres up. meaning, that the skill ceiling is raised - skilled players can do more with her sphere placement than ever before, for less mana, over less time.

being able to do more over less time, means the Stun will be more reliable, even for skilled players. they can set up the stun faster and better than before, letting her do MORE DAMAGE.

a skilled player would always be able to 7 sphere ult when they want to... ok sure. but what about when they're recalling? surprised, and didn't spend a ton of time spawning spheres? low on mana? in all those situations, before they'd be screwed. now, not so much.

syndra loses damage on her q... in exchange for not relying on her q nearly as much as she did before.

meaning her kit is more balanced.

meaning her kit is more healthy.

meaning syndra is going to be healthier to play.

Syndracising8 votes

Thats the thing. It isnt like that. Ramping up her Damage with time was her weakness. The counterplay to her Ultimate is her needing time to make her ultimate do damage. Now you need no time to do a 7 Sphere Ultimate which WILL oneshot. That just screws up ALL counterplay. Ultimate will DEFINITELY get nerfed then because really EVERYONE gets rewarded with insane damage. W hitbox is really not that much bigger as you think. its like 10% maybe and doesnt do double damage, which would be op tbh so good it doest but I wouldnt count the change as MORE Damage because if people grouped that much they get hit by W now, they also would get hit to 95% by live W too.

About her E. Yep the stun gets more reliable, but the Problem is it gets way too reliable. Missing the stun will be nearly impossible with W.

Q reliance is what makes Syndra Syndra. Do you want to buff all other spells of Ori because she relies to heavily on Q? Thats are the Strenghs and Weaknesses of Syndra. You cant just take away all weaknesses, which are intended for counterplay.

Sorry but i really dont feel you often play Syndra. And I dont really think you read what Overlord wrote because he basically negates many things you said.

Intended Weaknesses:

Ramp up time for her Ult damage Reliance on Q for all her spells Mana limited No escape

Strengths:

Can dish a huge singletarget nuke if given time Some Aoe Utility with a long range catch stun decent Aoe Damage

Problems:

often cant kill Carrys because she cant ignore Tanks which usually stand in front of Carries Cheap Mr Itemisation completly shuts her down. (Hextrinker)

To the biggest Problem with that rework:

You get the freeest 7 sphere Ultimate of your life which WILL oneshot a carry. Without Counterplay because its instant. You get a really free long range catch stun with an instant delete. Its really no counterplay. All weaknesses that were intended to balance her are just gone now. She presses 4 times Q on lane flashes onto you and presses R. Or wait she has a stun that now with 3 balls just covers 30% of midlane and deletes you then without Counterplay.

You really dont seem to understand how importend and how necessary (I cant stress it enough) the time she spends for her Ult is forher Balancing and COunterplay.

Partholonian1 votes

So your argument is that if she is nerfed from what is announced, then she will be weaker? Well yeah. That just means that if they do decide to nerf her ult because it is more reliable, then they need to compensation buff somewhere else, possibly Q base damage to offset the loss of her old passive Q bonus.

But that has nothing to do with how she would play "as of 4/19 PBE"; if you assume a future round of nerfs based on nothing more than your paranoia, then you aren't talking about 4/19 PBE Syndra anymore, you're talking about what you're afraid 6.10 Syndra will be like.

A squishy, immobile mage having a short ranged ult that can blow up a single squishy target isn't new Veigar , and I don't think Riot will automatically nerf it. The counterplay is to kill or CC her before she can get into range of a high priority target; the ult itself doesn't have to also be unreliable or require tons of setup. She doesn't have the dive potential of an Ahri or Zed.

Syndracising1 votes

The argument is that they removed parts of her counterplay in her ult. An even Syndra will do like 90% of ur Health as Damage with a 7 Sphere ult not hitting any spell before. Thats everything but balanced with the low effort she needs now. And the whole thing is about how oppressive she will be. Its not fun to get simply oneshotted and its no fun to oneshott without really doing something. Thanks to the W passive the stun isnt hard to land too so. Nothing to do with paranoia tbh that are facts. And the best thing of all is that all explanations are in Overlords text why she will be unhealthy but it seems like nobody reads it and i have to write everything 5 times.

It Hertz When IP2 votes

And if you remove mechanics-based weaknesses in a kit, you end up with a ball of stats champion that Riot has conclusively shown is near-impossible to balance. The ONLY benefit to this is that now she's absurdly easy to use, which means more FotM players spamming her, which catapults her brand new glaring design flaws to the forefront, resulting in her most likely having her numbers gutted while Riot tries to figure out how to subtly shift her back without admitting they screwed up.

Cryo006 votes

o.O wtf I don't follow your logic. this sounds like it turns syndra from being playable only by the hardcore mains who understand the windows of her damage, to instead be playable by any player without needing to be veteran level experience to access reliable damage and not feel completely useless.

Azir, Yasuo, Riven, are already in that state, especially Azir and Yasuo. We saw what happened to Azir when he was not gated by skill cap and did a stupid amount of damage. If Yasuo and Riven were easy to play, then they will get the Azir treatment as well, (Correct me if I'm wrong)

This update will drastically reduce her skill cap. Since pulling of a seven sphere ult is so easy now, they will HAVE to nerf it because of the damage the current ultimate does. You can quite literally one shot them. Many syndra players also enjoy that she is hard to play, which makes landing a 6+ sphere ultimate feel like an accomplishment.

Syndracising6 votes

Exactly. I love high skillcap champs. It just feels so well if you do something meanwhile yey im Warwick i stunned someone with R. I dont think every champion should be hard to play but its cool to have some specialty into champions and not just stupid boring mechanics but it seems like riot making every champion just super easy at the moment which really feels bad.

Serika Zero2 votes

Personally I play Syndra once or twice per year. And when I saw what it says in this thread I'm like "wtf 0w0" 6-7 sphere ultimates reaaaaaaaaaaaaaly? If I do 5 sphere ultimate I call myself lucky, usually its 4

I guess Rioters are like me "omg, syndra to hard, but want to play, LETS MAKE HER EAAASY". Which ain't a good idea if she was balanced around the potential she has (still 0w0 at 6-7 balls)

Detention1 votes

[deleted]

Syndracising4 votes

nope you forget her passive which adds 15% damage to Q when maxed. This affects base damage and ratio. so Q has a 0.69 Ratio on live with ~263 base damage. They remove the 15% and give her a 0.70 ap scaling without giving her more base damage which results in this hard nerf.

Farxodor4 votes
  1. Overlord Forte is a masters Syndra player, but I'm sure your 4k games matter.

  2. I'm intrigued by the fact that you played 4000 games with Syndra and still don't know what her passive does. When she levels Q to rank 5, it does 15% increased damage to champions, effectively giving it 264.5 + 0.69AP. Since the new Q will only deal 230 + 0.7AP at rank 5, it deals less damage until you have over ~3400AP, which is never.

LoquaciousKumqat1 votes

Do people not realize her ratio's being buffed on her Q?

Farxodor13 votes

Syndra's current passive effectively gives her a .69 ratio on her rank 5 Q. It's technically a ratio increase, but it's a .01 increase in exchange for ~30 base damage. Q will do less damage until ~3k AP (which is never).

Overlord Forte21 votes

Her old Q doing ((230+0.6AP)+15% Champion Damage) is more, mathematically, than (230+0.7AP).

Dengeden1 votes

But ... as it stands, doesn't Syndra already spam her spheres (and arguably her ult)? Whens she gets pushed in, she's also used to force her E to waveclear. Again, as it stands, she's more of a brushcheeser and AoE bot than anything else. Giving her low CDs should give her more freedom with how she uses her spells, no? (Since they interact with each other once they're used)

Overlord Forte8 votes

As it stands, Syndra has to spend 6-9 seconds in combat to achieve a 6 sphere ultimate, a little over 10-12 seconds for a 7 sphere. Each increased sphere on her ultimate results in a smaller WOP, due to the life timer of the spheres. Thus, in exchange for having an ultimate that, by itself with high sphere count can delete most squishies, she has a 'ramp' period. This cuts both ways - if she misses her WOP, her spheres evaporate and she has to stack again, hence tempo. Peaks and valleys.

She's an AoE specialist with a control pattern that rewards meticulous play and planning for a strong single target nuke. The suggested changes flatten this pattern into a very binary state that requires very little planning or situational awareness. Basically, rather than planning for the right WOP to do your job in, you just spam a sphere count and bludgeon around with W with a full power ultimate ready for over 3 times the current WOP periods.

nononthesnake9 votes

And, to add insult to injury, the burst that might come from these easier 7 spheres ults will more than likely see her getting more nerfs. I really can't see where they want to go with this.

Overlord Forte8 votes

That is the current projection. This removes all the stress and strain of her kit to enable the high points much easier. Those high points were built with that strain in mind - ergo, they must be nerfed to compensate. They would have to bend and break her kit in so many places to compensate, it might as well be a full rework at that point.

krazeeight1 votes

I do hope this Syndra update works out in some way or another. I used to be a Syndra main as well, but ever since they nerfed her Q damage and E range last year (which seemed pretty unjustified given her standing in the game), I haven't been able to play her to the same kind of success. Perhaps the changes to mana items they're making will make it harder for her to maintain the 6 spheres?

Overlord Forte4 votes

Her E range was never nerfed, only the 'width' of the stun hit box narrowed. It's equivalent to Morgana's Q's hitbox being made smaller, really. I actually somewhat agreed with the nerf, though there are some edge cases now where her stun misses when it shouldn't. The Q damage nerf was pretty 'eh', though.

Current mana itemization will make prolonged sphere management a more tricky proposition, but not terribly so. Tear->Archangel's+Meditation alone has seem adequate in all my theory crafting combat scenarios.

krazeeight3 votes

Here's the patch note: "Dark Spheres knocked back by Scatter the Weak are now more 'strict' in their hitbox radius". They changed the radius of the E stun to better match the visual, when before you could stun people from just outside of it. Therefor nerfing the hitbox as well as the range a little bit. After that change it felt like I was missing stuns I would have normally hit all the time. Could be the problem is that I was reliant on people thinking they were out of range when they weren't.

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