Can we talk about the off meta video O.o

Spearki·Nov 14, 2018·28 votes·14,772 views

So riot released a video with off meta builds and i think it's lacking some ohm some guidelines or what should i call it sure it's great they support ppl being able to try out new builds.

BUT!

they should clarify that ppl should only do this in normals and not in ranked.

Ppl might not agree with me but i think it's fine to do off meta builds in normals but within a reasonable range of iq and not just builds that legit make no sense what so ever. If there is some ground behind the build having a chance to win it's fine but there should be a limit to how troll the builds can get and how much you can int ( i know they will still have int buster etc) but it scares me ppl take this video the wrong way.

Just because it's preseason doesn't mean you should be allowed to ruin the game for 4other ppl quing solo. you try a new build go 0/5 it's w/e but if you go like 0/10 and do 4k dmg in a 30mni game it isn't really fun.

what are other ppls thoughts on this? [sg-ahri-2] (wasn't sure what topic to put this on beside gameplay/playerbehavior so just took one of them)

98 Comments

taleofsonataNov 14, 201815 votes

Bring back AP maokai, Bring Back AP Corki, Bring Back X champion that got their off meta build gutted.

SpearkiNov 14, 20188 votes

ap yi [sg-kiko] dunno why ppl down vote , can't you tell by the emote i wasn't srs?

TheSingularityNov 14, 20184 votes

Wouldn't say that was off meta haha. Fk me that version of yi was grose.

Jack GarrusNov 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

ap yi [sg-kiko] dunno why ppl down vote , can't you tell by the emote i wasn't srs?

Ok troll but this ain't season 5

SpearkiNov 15, 20181 votes

it was a meme and the same time a suggestion what kind of things they could bring back to being off meta meaning they could change the scaling on hes ability's and make it different and not broken but in a more healthy spot to be off meta but still not be as broken as it was in s5.

Lets be honest i think they could have worked around balancing yi to a point where both ap and ad worked even if they had to make ap worse it would still be a lot of fun to play if it was weaker then back then instead of just throwing it away ^_^

think ppl took my comment the wrong way happens [sg-ahri-2]

Jack GarrusNov 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

it was a meme and the same time a suggestion what kind of things they could bring back to being off meta meaning they could change the scaling on hes ability's and make it different and not broken but in a more healthy spot to be off meta but still not be as broken as it was in s5.

Lets be honest i think they could have worked around balancing yi to a point where both ap and ad worked even if they had to make ap worse it would still be a lot of fun to play if it was weaker then back then instead of just throwing it away ^_^

think ppl took my comment the wrong way happens [sg-ahri-2]

Well, my first comment was a meme too xD Btw, Can't wait to go back home from work to start playing Nami ad or Zed ap or whatever. Nice evenings are coming eheheheh

nGioNov 15, 20186 votes

{quoted}

Bring back AP maokai, Bring Back AP Corki, Bring Back X champion that got their off meta build gutted.

Bring back top lane Zac . Or just leave him at 46% as a jungle only support, and keeping calling him a success.

BjørnetjenestenNov 15, 201811 votes

Fuck this company tbh.

Literally forcing a meta down our throat every 2 weeks... then they make shit like this to convince us the game is still open and experimental...

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

deadlychuckNov 15, 20182 votes

Yeah, if there wasn't years of homogenizing, re-itemizing. and refactoring systems to soft force the meta onto people by creating a increasing disparity between what they design, and what people have the ability to experiment with, then I'd be willing to believe that this is more than then just trying to save face and a PR move.

SpecterVonBarenNov 16, 20181 votes

Because the boards are OH SO welcoming of new things...

XonraNov 16, 20181 votes

You mean humans in general. This isn't just a "boards" thing. It is a human beings thing. People don't like new, they like comfortable.

SpecterVonBarenNov 16, 20181 votes

Very, VERY true.

KOGMIDONLYNov 16, 20181 votes

God bless ur comment, got me on a personal level.

Death by GlamourNov 15, 20189 votes

6 x wits end diana

really rito

couldn't have done something like top nunu, jungle irelia or support ivern which can work while not being completely troll

ZackTheWaffleManNov 15, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Death by Glamour,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wVdA4AyV,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-11-15T00:54:08.442+0000)

6 x wits end diana

really rito

couldn't have done something like top nunu, jungle irelia or support ivern which can work while not being completely troll

they could've at least done item 3091 item 3124 item 3153 item 3115

WildG12Nov 15, 20185 votes

just had Ziggs jungle and already done with this preseason [zombie-brand-mindblown]

Atom KnightNov 15, 20185 votes

Are we forgetting how bad ranked gets the day after a pro pulls out something different in LCS or worlds. Doesn't matter they are low elo or that they've never played the champ before. They assure you its op then go 0-12. The probelm is the playerbase can't string two brain cells together regardless of if they are following the meta or not

OtterlyLostNov 14, 20184 votes

I appreciate how they show the different bot lanes but not one ADC going top or mid. Just says it all right there; that they'll never make it so ADCs arent constrained to just bot lane. :/

TheSingularityNov 14, 201815 votes

Because they're generally unhealthy when they enter top lane and assassins keep them out of mid lane.

OtterlyLostNov 14, 20181 votes

Then nerf assassins down to allow them to go mid. Idc where else they're allowed to go but its bullshit to expect then to share their only lane with things that are way better than them early and mid without making concessions to allow them to go somewhere else. And honestly, I dont care if top laners find it unhealthy. Top laners are usually like Hashinshin and find anything that isnt a melee bruiser toxic to play against. It's why viktor top got nerfed despite it being something new and innovative outside of the usual bruisers.

TheSingularityNov 15, 201816 votes

Then nerf assassins down to allow them to go mid.

Then who deals with them? Who in the game matches the damage of an assassin to reliably dispatch a ranged hyper carry? No one. Mages are unreliable, divers are mostly weak, juggernauts won't make it close to them, skirmishers are easily dispatched if your comp is semi-decent and tank are, tanks.

Idc where else they're allowed to go but its bullshit to expect then to share their only lane with things that are way better than them early and mid without making concessions to allow them to go somewhere else

I've been there with my own champs. It sucks but you just gotta adapt and deal with it. A few mages can play bot. Big woop that was always possible it simply wasn't accepted.

And honestly, I dont care if top laners find it unhealthy.

Then why on earth should anyone care if you find marksman being limited to bot lane healthy?

It's why viktor top got nerfed despite it being something new and innovative outside of the usual bruisers.

Ranged top laners get nerfed because they're able to do what ever they want at almost no risk of retaliation because:

their range positions them better to escape ganks
they can farm and poke without having to worry about creep block
Their range then allows them to relentlessly dish out unavoidable poke Gnar was easier to balance because he's forced into melee range periodically. In theory you can go top lane. Get good enough and you'll thrive akin to the karthus, teemo, gnar and kennen mains. Lucian, kai, corki and varus still work mid. If you want them to work elsewhere, you need to make them work. You don't get special treatment just so you can have a good time at the cost of everyone else. Hell there're countless changes I'd like to make my experience better. But those things are never going to happen so one must simply deal with it and move on

SpearkiNov 14, 20182 votes

tw jgl [sg-ahri-2] i think jgl is the best role for adcs that don't wanna be bot but its still very limited to what adcs you can pick in jgl :c ( i know thew struggle was adc main s1-s7 and s8 i just played adcs jgls )

OtterlyLostNov 14, 20182 votes

When 8.11 hit, I was playing Tristana jungle. It's fun and refreshing until your team starts flaming you for playing an off meta pick in norms draft

Modl Ryden lNov 15, 20184 votes

It's fun to do off meta which I hope is what they're promoting is to have fun.

However, there is always a tactic that is more dependable than building off meta.

As an ADC main I shuttered at the though of ADC Janna. It worked at one point in season 2 before supports got their heals/shields staled by AP scaling but it will never work later on because of how massive their attack delays are in comparison to marksmen. The last thing you'd want is even though they have that PHAT 2.5 attack speed, their attack moving would be stuttered and would be a high risk of cancelling auto attacks.

For real though, there should be an RGM that revolves around off meta builds somehow.

ULTIMATE BRAVERY WHERE YOU AT?

SpearkiNov 15, 20184 votes

I remember the chaox ad janna climb to challenger good old days but things like that just doesn't work the same anyway game was different back then :c

JohnnyNeverSinsNov 15, 20184 votes

They might as well remove the intentionally feeding report...looks like they encourage people to go 0/9,if so that's great,I can feed my ass off trying different builds and not get banned. Should be fun,they are trying so hard to change the meta and add variety and once that variety gets added (becomes meta) they nerf it...X d

XonraNov 16, 20181 votes

New and different ideas are awesome to Riot...

As long as they are the ones who came up with it. If not, then BOOM nerfed. They don't like interesting ideas unless they can take credit for them and implement them in some cheesy way.

OneBarrelNov 15, 20183 votes

Literally anything can work in ranked as long as you're skilled enough. Faker can play soraka top and smack anyone plat and below. It isn't about a build being bad, it's about a player being bad. I think you're confusing the two here. It's like the same dilemma with "best champ" or "best items." Simple answer, there is none. The meta is player created and the balance team sometimes intervenes to alter the meta to something healthy. Just because something's off-meta doesn't make it bad.

lolipopevelynnNov 15, 20183 votes

And at the end of the day only 1 build per class/role will be viable anyway

AseraanNov 15, 20182 votes

{quoted}

And at the end of the day only 1 build per class/role will be viable anyway

I miss old runes......[sg-janna] full armor page for ramus(36 armor) jungle full attackspeed page(30% starting bonus attack speed) I miss them sooo muchQQ

HammermancerNov 15, 20181 votes

I don't see why we can't just have both tbh

like take the way you can choose your stats and replace it with the old runes

and then we're just back where we were before BUT we'll have like... no requirement to pay for all of that shit

deadlychuckNov 15, 20183 votes

Literally the stripped the runes from the game and expanded the mastery system... That's all they did.

Yet by simply renaming it "runes" somehow people got fooled into thinking that they didn't just remove half of your pre-game choices...

HammermancerNov 15, 20181 votes

TO BE FAIR THEY DID ADD GAME IMBALANCING NEW MASTERIES

deadlychuckNov 16, 20181 votes

Yeah, but mechanical power always results in substantially faster drop off in champion synergy. Which is the serious problem, when you have 140+ champions but < 20 runes. You've effectively pigeonholed your champion power into these runes and are now incentivized to homogenize champions towards one of these runes rather than towards a unique identity.

Some of the masteries might be imbalanced, but they're only going to be imbalanced for the champions who can generally get full potential out of them without sacrificing any part of their gameplay, where as champions who don't perfectly synergize with the imbalanced masteries will sacrifice too much to try to get a use out of them.

The most generally applicable mechanic then becomes the "average". Just as thunderlords became the "average" power rune in the old masteries.

XonraNov 16, 20181 votes

"Try new stuff!" says Riot.

Then proceeds to Nerf the champ if they go somewhere Riot doesn't like. That doesn't mean they can't go somewhere else, but if Riot doesn't like it, then BOOM. Riot will deem it "toxic" and "unfun" and throw in an unhealthy for good measure to justify keeping it where they wanted it.

HammermancerNov 17, 20181 votes

name a champ with only one viable build, Like i understand there's a best build, but name a single champ with only one viable build

Velzard of KozNov 15, 20183 votes

I hate it when I get my third infinity edge on annie and my jungle soraka starts running it down mid

My Favourite comment for sure.

HammermancerNov 14, 20182 votes

DID THE PATCH LAUNCH?

SpearkiNov 14, 20187 votes

next week patch should be out the 21st

HammermancerNov 15, 20182 votes

Fuck i'm a freelancer and I already booked a gig out of state for next week :(

let's see if I can fit the personal laptop in the luggage

ChaosThiefNov 15, 20182 votes

I don't think they should ban off meta builds from ranked.

Now hold on, don't downvote, let me finish.

The person using said off meta build should have sufficient knowledge on how to use the build. If a person knows how to play full tank Kennen well enough, let them. If they know how to play AD ahri, let them (apparently muramana + her W is a thing...) Just if you want to first time play some off meta build, practice it first, for the love of everything. Ranked is intended to be a "professional playing field" where you demonstrate that you know how to play the game... sort of. At least know what you're doing before you drag it into ranked.

WindupNov 15, 20182 votes

The only part that bugs me in the video is using 6 Wit's Ends when they have a unique passive. The build should be item 3006 item 3124 item 3091 item 3115 item 3100 item 3146 or something.

Rıots Bad ClientNov 15, 20181 votes

I think it was just for the Mr stacking against the shyv.

diana was so tilted.

XonraNov 16, 20182 votes

It's okay I've already had someone troll and then link me this video after the game full bm style to prove they weren't trolling it was just "off-meta" cause Riot said so.

Thanks Riot.

Rock MDNov 15, 20181 votes

"We want diversity"

"Okay we like diversity but let's restrict it to only normals, a game mode that nobody of substance takes seriously and it's been decided that if you want to prove yourself serious you need to take it into ranked."

Well, which is it?

SpearkiNov 15, 20184 votes

well if it actually works in normal's and not like i stomped a iron 1 in normal better try it in ranked more like you look at you dmg out put , laning , team fight ability , split push ability etc and so on and make aa proper conclusion if it will work in ranked or not and then you can try it out in ranked and if it doesn't work then go back to normals or don't play it in ranked.

players like dopa/apdo take golder players that do off meta runes in normals srsly if there is actually something that make sense behind it and then they try it out it's not like none takes normal off meta build srs.

Rock MDNov 15, 20182 votes

{quoted}

well if it actually works in normal's and not like i stomped a iron 1 in normal better try it in ranked more like you look at you dmg out put , laning , team fight ability , split push ability etc and so on and make aa proper conclusion if it will work in ranked or not and then you can try it out in ranked and if it doesn't work then go back to normals or don't play it in ranked.

players like dopa/apdo take golder player that do off meta runes in normals srsly if there is actually something that make sense behind it and then they try it out it's not like none takes normal off meta build srs.

Then clarify, "try it in normals first."

You said, "they should clarify that ppl should only do this in normals and not in ranked."

SpearkiNov 15, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wVdA4AyV,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2018-11-15T02:30:07.072+0000)

You said, "they should clarify that ppl should only do this in normals and not in ranked."

well do you actually expect most ppl to have the ability to come to a proper conclusion about how things work to try them out in ranked? most don't but i alrdy saw ppl commenting and linking the video and ppl saying riot support off meta to ppl getting trolled in ranked so i think the message of the video was taken in a wrong way which did lead me to make this post.

XonraNov 16, 20181 votes

It's kind of of an obvious if not implied statement. No need to get riled up about it.

Rock MDNov 16, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It's kind of of an obvious if not implied statement. No need to get riled up about it.

I'm not riled up. I'm simply pointing out a glaring double standard that's pretty shared on the boards.
It's not an obvious statement. People here hate diversity if it affects the meta they show preference for.