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Unjustified ban riot won't admit to the systems mistake

Spearki··9 votes·4,184 views

edit 4 i didn't think of making a tldr until i saw someone mention it thanks to midg3t . tldr: linked to the comment below

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/9YecMEL5-unjustified-ban-riot-wont-admit-to-the-systems-mistake?comment=0006

since NA boards have a lot more trafic and reddit has i'm posting this here as well aas i think riot really is making a mistake here and that my ban isn't justified.

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/cvnjh6/i_reaally_think_this_ban_is_not_justified_riot/

edit apparently reddit mods removed my post with no reasoning and didn't give me any reasons as to why here is euw post.

https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/t54ElH5X-unjustified-baan-riot-wont-remove-it

edit 2: reddit mods wont allow me to post so only have the euw post above linked with all the information

https://imgur.com/9kqEKxK

edit 3:

really waant to know why ppl down voted this?

do you not want to go to the euw post and check chat logs? would you rather have me to translate the whole chat logs into english instead ? or do you actually think speaking your native language in a multi lingual server should be banable?

81 Comments

ModPeriscope3 votes

Ya, I'm not sure when, but reddit doesn't permit talking about punishments, afaik.

RayleighTT2 votes

{quoted}

Ya, I'm not sure when, but reddit doesn't permit talking about punishments, afaik.

yeah ,but nightblue can ?? , and others can talk about natbuc case??? on redit , why is Riot afraid about community opinnion , why you stop the community to have acces to sensible informations , in such cases there could be a permanent ban from not that necesary reasons...,probably could be a case someone didn't deserved permanent ban for what he did and the amount of toxicity , is like the community is part of that board otherwise that board would mean nothing without community... , i think everyone should have the pleasure to talk what ever they want ,if the content is adressed to LeagueOfLegends

I one will consider to share my case too , as i don't believe that 140 years is a fair punishment regarding my very low level of toxicity ,while i am permanent banned from accesing support line assistance from stupid reasons... on any account i would connect due to ban over my ip.

ModPeriscope2 votes

Support can refuse to see your support ticket if you've spammed them or acted inappropriately in prior support tickets.

If you think you had an unfair punishment, you should post your logs in your own discussion.

Spearki3 votes

But they also by legal laws not allowed to rely on an automated system/use copy pasta to responds they forced by legal law to have moderators for any online chat in their game.

And you can discuss if they really are up holding these laws by using copy paste texts and an automated system in 99% of cases

so if they not giving proper moderation you allowed to make multiple tickets without them being able to ban you for it

ModPeriscope2 votes

But they also by legal laws

What law?

Spearki1 votes

article 8 and 10 in the eu laws

GatekeeperTDS2 votes

Borrowing these from Wikipedia -

Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights provides a right to respect for one's "private and family life, his home and his correspondence", subject to certain restrictions that are "in accordance with law" and "necessary in a democratic society".

Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights provides the right to freedom of expression and information, subject to certain restrictions that are "in accordance with law" and "necessary in a democratic society". This right includes the freedom to hold opinions, and to receive and impart information and ideas.

People on these boards bring up the freedom of speech thing constantly, usually in reference to the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America -

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

This Amendment, as well as the EU Articles you referenced have absolutely nothing to do with how Riot games chooses to operate their service. They prevent the government from interfering in basic human rights.

You are not entitled to freedom of speech in someone else's living room. If you're in my house, or Riot's house, there are rules to follow. If I'm in your house, there are rules to follow. If you don't like the rules of the establishment, your choice is to leave.

Spearki1 votes

Yeah that's not everything they have a specific section for online games and their moderation for public chats as leagues in game chat and filter and blocking rules of hate speech

GatekeeperTDS2 votes

Are you able to provide any information, or do I have to go on a hunt for these laws myself?

GatekeeperTDS2 votes

But they also by legal laws not allowed to rely on an automated system/use copy pasta to responds they forced by legal law to have moderators for any online chat in their game.

This statement is blatantly false.

Spearki1 votes

pretty sure it states you can't solo rely on automated systems as they are not reliable enough and have to have a moderation team as well and they need to point to what points in the ToS the blocked content is against the terms of use and why the system did fail/didn't in their opinion.

GatekeeperTDS3 votes

pretty sure it states

Pretty sure what states? What law? What country? If it's the US (Riot is a US-based company), what state?

There are no laws anywhere that tell a company how to handle behavior issues while using their service. You absolutely need to provide proof of this outlandish claim.

Spearki1 votes

They not allowed to block content as the k word when its not used in the way the filter is intended to filter out things.

its intended to filter out hateful english comments in the context of these logs i do not take part in this grp and it should only be considered to be blocked if the danish word of it which is the grp mn part of here in this context have a need to block or suspend a person from it.

these are universal eu laws every company has to follow that decide to public their game in eu

the universal rules for freedom of speech under article 10 and 8 in eu for online games have very clear cut what you can and can't block/suspend ppl from.

https://imgur.com/VIbgu5y

rujitra3 votes

You keep saying "they aren't allowed" - what prevents them from doing so? There is absolutely no law that states that a company cannot control the content on their platform. If Riot wanted to block the word "red" from being used for any reason, they can do so if they want.

It does not matter that the reason they blocked it originally was for reasons of it being used in English to be toxic - if Riot has decided it is to be banned, that is Riot's right. The fact it is a danish word does not mean Riot cannot block it - Riot can block it regardless of if it is a danish word, spanish word, english word, or all three and has different meanings in each language.

Freedom of speech does not apply to online games. It applies to the government. If the government said "all game companies must block X speech", that would be against EU law. However, if the game company decided to block a word/phrase, that is their right as a private company. They have the right to control, monitor, and set rules for their private property. That's what you're seeming to forget - you are utilizing Riot's private property - it's akin to going to a house party at a friend's house. Sure, you may have been invited - but your friend can change their mind and rescind that invite for any reason at any time, even if you disagree with it.

EDIT: The image you reference is referring to government run censors/filters - such as the "obscene content" filter that some governments use to prevent access to pornography in their countries. It does not apply to private companies. You can tell this because it says "Member States" - not "all" or "everyone" or "citizens" or similar. Member States is a phrase in EU law to refer specifically and exclusively to national governments of countries - not local governments, not private companies/individuals, etc.

Spearki1 votes

https://rm.coe.int/16805a39d3

they why it's stated here under human rights for fredom of speech under eu laws that they can't just block any content as you can see in the pic in my above comment the block/suspension/filters of hate speech /harassment has to be reasonable which it def isn't in the context grp i used it for

rujitra1 votes

That is not EU law. That is not a document by any legal organization. Third party "guidance" holds about as much legal authority as my big toe.

If you feel your human rights are being violated, feel free to sue Riot. You will lose, because you're wrong.

The picture above you conveniently cut out the start of that sentence. The beginning of the sentence you quote specifies it applies to the Member States. You do not get to just ignore information you don't like.

If Riot wants to ban the three letters together, they can. Period. And they don't have to justify it to you.

EDIT: The document link is again about content filtering, not about behavioral rules or punishments for violating those rules.

Content filtering is like a block - you try to access a webpage and are prevented from accessing it. It is not the same as Riot setting rules for behavior and then enforcing those rules.

Spearki1 votes

yeah i get that but what about my comment about the 2 words i asked about can you explain them cuz it says and electronic communication online and goes on but then again you say its just 3rd party advise which has no real meaning so yeah.

i probably sound like an idiot cuz i'm trying to learn laws being a cave man with a very limited vocabulary but i want to at least try understand things cuz i still didn't feel like the ban it self was justified after riot responded with such vague comments imo

rujitra1 votes

It's not laws.

This is like if I went out and published something online. Sure, they can call it guidelines or guidance, but that doesn't mean it's the actual law. I can post whatever I want online, and I can call it whatever I want.

You are free to have your opinion that it wasn't justified. Riot is free to have the opinión that it is justified. Per the terms of use you agreed to when you signed up, Riot's opinion wins.

Spearki2 votes

i guess maybe i should just not play this game as i feel like i'm not allowed to write in my own language and feel like most other companys would understand every language has words that means different meanings like .

squash draft bark

etc depending on context you use them

just like in german Vögeln is a swear word probably ban able by its own but if you say den Vögeln it mean the birds and isn't offensive word anymore

The Anivia OTP1 votes

might aswell spam some "din mor er en hakke, hun suttede pik i helvede" if it's not a language

Spearki1 votes

Maybe my english is just to bad to understand these words but what do they mean by "public sectors" and the words "private actors" then? i assumed public sectors was school etc but private actors was such as online games as riot games?

I'm generally just trying to understand this cuz i really feel like they didn't justifie the ban at all in my support tickets and just ignore everything besides saying its a trigger word deserved.

GatekeeperTDS3 votes

the universal rules for freedom of speech under article 10 and 8 in eu for online games have very clear cut what you can and can't block/suspend ppl from.

I can't find anything stating that companies cannot have codes of conduct and enforce such codes of conduct in their services. You're going to need to cite the relevant sections of the law.

Spearki1 votes

i linked a pic in my other comment that states it as well as a link to the document just click the white square

GatekeeperTDS2 votes

I'm sorry, this does not apply to how Riot games, or any other provider, wishes to handle player behavior in their game. As rujitra said in a different comment, they can issue punishments for any words they don't want in their game. You are not entitled to freedom of speech in someone else's house.

Spearki1 votes

https://imgur.com/NTGlo1W

Why do it state that games have to respect these human right then right at the start when they try to filter/block/suspend content such as hate speech.

we have our right to freedom of expression to a certain degree as it clearly states and later states they can not block content if the filter is not meant for that specific grp of individuals.

GatekeeperTDS2 votes

One thing you can be sure of is that Riot has lawyers who are better at this than we are. Nowhere does this say that anyone has the right to violate the rules that you agree to when you play Riot's game.

Spearki1 votes

that is true they have lawyers that understand it way better as my vocabulary isn't very good in my native language and even worse in english

GatekeeperTDS1 votes

Honestly, your English is fine and it's way better than a lot of native speakers from my country (USA).

[sg-ahri-2]

Spearki1 votes

for the words i do know its but there is lots of words i might not get the correct meaning mostly more formal words as i get most of the general words ppl use for just chatting all tho not all of them.

but i spent last 9 years hearing and speaking english from youtube/chat/streams etc daily which did teach me a lot but far from everything

PlsTouchMeGently1 votes

So, I am a lawyer, and can tell you that the EU Universal Rules on Freedom of Speech are

  1. Not even usually looked upon as binding

and

  1. Don’t apply to private companies, only governments.
RayleighTT1 votes

{quoted}

Support can refuse to see your support ticket if you've spammed them or acted inappropriately in prior support tickets.

If you think you had an unfair punishment, you should post your logs in your own discussion.

Problem is i tend to write much when doing tickets , and when my ticket get passed from a guy to another , i am certainly sure one guy dosn't lose 20 minuts to read what i writed in past and others agents answered to me .

The further problem is that ,for exemple , i was talking about punishments without to give my account name ... , and a rioter agent pop in to ask my name to investigate and watch over so he can help me , but problem is that someone else steped in my ticket and banned me on ip from using further more riot service assistance , the problem is that he ain't even mention that i got banned over my ip , which again isn't cool , i banned my friend support acces ... , doubt Riot will care to do something about...

Well problem is no one helps me , and no rioter steped in to talk with me ... , so what's the point,if i did that in past and no rioters come in to help me ... or to investigate, normal users will not having anything to help me with , no one actually had something to say about me ... , because is clearly that the context i sayd is questionable , i know the best as i was inside that game and i know i weren't in a rush to be offensive after 3 months of staying cool and chill , and being quiet when others trolls intentionally without reason/flame or grief.

If i do a post over this board ,will i have the help of a Rioter ? , or i will not gain any assistance again? , i am tired and exhausted of the fact i still no understand after 10 months , how they consider my behaviour so disruptive and worth 140 years ban ,neither have any ideea what they marked toxic or not in my chat logs , that's a huge problem. They refuse to help me on support line assistance telling me the case is closed , that's a huge issue in this case ,because support assistance never helped me out to understand , what actually they consider toxic , so i haven't any chance to proof the fact that some lines weren't offensive or breaking rules into the chat logs lines etc... .

ModPeriscope3 votes

I'm gonna be blunt, but this sounds like they've addressed your issue as best they could.

It also sounds like you've written in multiple tickets and with different accounts addressing one account's punishment.

Again, if you feel your punishment is inappropriate, open up your own discussion and copy/paste your chat logs. Feel free to share screenshots of some of your earlier support tickets regarding this punishment.

RayleighTT1 votes

{quoted}

I'm gonna be blunt, but this sounds like they've addressed your issue as best they could.

It also sounds like you've written in multiple tickets and with different accounts addressing one account's punishment.

Again, if you feel your punishment is inappropriate, open up your own discussion and copy/paste your chat logs. Feel free to share screenshots of some of your earlier support tickets regarding this punishment.

I can't because i have no acces to previous tickets... the point of being banned on support assistance ... , without having the option to connect into your support assistance account ,you should still have acces to your previous tickets and just get blocked the function of making a ticket , it sound much more fair to still have acces to past tickets ... , than just don't have anymore accest at all on your support assistance account.

Further more ,i did writed about my problem from multiple accounts ,but after they banned previous account , i was writing about my problem just using one account ,then when my account got banned first time for no reason again , i was really annoyed about that and started the discuss again ,probably it wasn't smart to be threat with account support assistance permanent ban punishment ,cause i didn't stop to ask about my punishment when they decided to close my case... , i just asked for a thingh ,not exactly for them to unban my account , i been asking for information , and presented the fact and reason i want to have that information , so basically i don't think i abused or spam anyone ... , if they refused to assist me with the request regarding my chat logs i been punished for ,what i was wrong with ?? , explain me how that sounds normal , from a point some agents had personal problems with me , and at a moment they threat me to stop asking about my punishment ,cause my case is closed , how the hell i open my case , or how they have the right to close my case without my agreement???? . In fact is my account isn't them account ,it belongs to me , so i have the right to ask what kind of information i want , because my level of negativity was under anyone else disrupting game behaviour .. . So until i get convicted about the fact i worth the punishment , and that it can't be reversed the permanent ban due to low level of negativity , close almost to 0 in my opinnion ,then they don't have the right to close my case. They should also provide me the lines they considered and marked as toxic ,after IFS submited me the permanent ban punishment ,cause still after 10 months i have no clue if it was a mistake or not , because they haven't answer to my request of receiving the lines i been toxic behaving , not all the chat logs ... , as they did , the lines only where i been considered toxic ,and they agree on being toxic , so i can be 100% sure there is not a mistake or something.

Explain me now , how will i have a chance to proof anything ?

ModPeriscope1 votes

If it's your chat logs that you want pointed out what specifically was negative, you can share your logs in your own discussion and I or other community members can point that out for you.

I didn't think you'd be blocked from accessing your prior support tickets, I'm sure if you contact support and ask politely to have access to your tickets or ask them to copy/paste they should be able to work with you on that.

Midg3t3 votes

tl;dr

OP was typing in danish and one of the words he used was kys...2 times. Proof: http://prntscr.com/oxtv9s Now I would agree this should be bannable however this is the sentence he used it in "%%% %%% til dig smukke" And when you add kys to the equation this is what he said http://prntscr.com/oxtu7w

Imo this is false positive. OP was clearly typing with some1 on another language and was unfortunate enough to use words which are bannable in another language.

rujitra1 votes

However, Riot may very well have decided that the chance someone is using that word to mean "kiss" in another language is so low in League that it is not needed to be used at all.

Spearki4 votes

https://imgur.com/6CtcGUV

think its the oppsite this is the first time that accoutn was ever punished and first time i used danish on that aaccoutn and ever wrote that word so when rioter writes.

"This is not about what you said or did necessarily but about the repetitive times in which cases like this appeared or happened,"

i guess they decided ppl use the word to much in danish so they ban for it disregarding it as an actual language and support also replied with the word don't exist in danish which just tells me how uneducated on language and culture support staff is.

https://imgur.com/s4JPCg3

rujitra1 votes

Danish is not a supported language in any region of League of Legends.

They do not provide support for the game in Danish, nor do they have a separate ruleset or support staff for Danish. if you choose to use Danish, you are doing so with the understanding you will not get any special treatment or support in Danish.

The Anivia OTP2 votes

at no point did he ask for that.

however, you can't be xenophobic to the point of saying "well if it aint supported, it cannot be used"

i agree that it is perfectly normal that he got banned given the context but i do not agree that he REMAINED banned AND the actual argument is false.

there is no justification. you're danish ? can't speak danish here, it doesn't exist , danish people are nuisance, and saying "kiss kiss to you beautiful" should 100% get you banned

other languages ? it's okay , they are supported, so they exist.

Am i the only one seeing how wrong this is ?

If he was insulting in danish , he should be banned, as much as if he wasn't insulting in danish , he shouldn't

not asking the bot to change , but riot to acknowledge that.

rujitra1 votes

So, any time I claim that my ban's incorrect because "it doesn't mean that in my native language" Riot should have to spend hours (days?) researching it to confirm if it's correct?

No. Riot supports certain languages. If you are using a non-supported language, that is not Riot's problem. Riot is not going to provide Danish support (which is what you're asking for here) simply because one player wants to use Danish in game.

If you wish to discuss whether Riot should add additional supported languages, that's a separate discussion.

BladeSteel1 votes

It takes 3 seconds. If a customer support working on a ticket can’t a) look at the logs to see if the entire logs are in danish b) copy paste said logs in google translate and c)do a quick scan to see if it looks like anything is actually amiss, then they should be fired. End of story. “It’s not supported” is just the lazy person’s excuse. I worked years for Comcast Billing. If someone comes to you with a complaint, you actually look into it, you don’t sit around picking the hairs from your behind saying “duh kys isn’t a word in danish so ur banned”. If someone “calls” in “why is my account banned” or “why is my cable out” you don’t pull some random crap from nowhere you look. And don’t say “they get so many tickets a day they can’t look into them all.” Thats their job. If they can’t look into all the tickets, maybe they shouldn’t have a create ticket function. This is an example of extremely poor customer service, and nothing else.

Midg3t2 votes

{quoted}

However, Riot may very well have decided that the chance someone is using that word to mean "kiss" in another language is so low in League that it is not needed to be used at all.

Yea, using your own language is not needed in league...lmao thats straight up discrimination.

What if OP didnt know using a danish word could get him in trouble? I dunno about you but I met a lot of people who either dont know english very well or they dont know it at all on EUNE. Should they get banned just for not knowing a normal word in their language could get them in trouble?

Dont get me wrong, im not saying using the phrase "kys" should be forgiven, but in this SPECIFIC CONTEXT it should be given another review and possible pass. If you looked at his chat log that OP posted on EUW boards, you can clearly see he was communicating in danish. And for all we know it could be a commonly used phrase.

rujitra1 votes

Danish is not a supported language in League. By definition, this means that they do not consider that language. This is obvious.

If the OP did not stop to think how their messages would be interpreted, that's not Riot's problem.

Furthermore, in some instances the use of the word kiss makes sense. In this one, there's really no reason for that word to be used other than for the double entendre.

Lastly, we do not know OPs communications with support. The way OP handled it may very well have shot themselves in the foot, for which there should be no sympathy. If OP treated the support agents like crap and threatened legal shit to them, then they will respond the same way. They aren't obligated to help, especially when you're asking to bend rules.

Midg3t3 votes

{quoted}

Danish is not a supported language in League. By definition, this means that they do not consider that language. This is obvious.

If riot has a list of words that will get you banned if you type them no matter what, they should consider other languages to avoid situations like these. Not doing it is just irresponsible.

If the OP did not stop to think how their messages would be interpreted, that's not Riot's problem.

He was talking with some1 in all chat in his language. I put whole part where he was talking in danish and based of scuffed google translate i dont think OP was flaming or something like that http://prntscr.com/oy4be7

If I had a casual chatting with some1 in the game while not having a good grasp of eng. language i wouldnt think that some normal words in another language might get me banned either.

Furthermore, in some instances the use of the word kiss makes sense. In this one, there's really no reason for that word to be used other than for the double entendre.

?XD

  1. Who tf r u to say what words make sense to use?
  2. Do you know if it's a commonly used phrase?
  3. If OP rly wanted to tell some1 to commit suicide and mask it under danish lango why the fuck would he type it out of nowhere and then continue to type normally? Look at my screenshot. Do you see any flame that might lead to typing kys to some1? Cuz I dont.

Lastly, we do not know OPs communications with support. The way OP handled it may very well have shot themselves in the foot, for which there should be no sympathy. If OP treated the support agents like crap and threatened legal shit to them, then they will respond the same way. They aren't obligated to help, especially when you're asking to bend rules.

If I got banned because words with a normal, non-toxic meaning I used in my language are a bannable offense in League i would be pissed aswell. And yea, threatening with legal shit aint smart but still, he might not know what else to do. I wouldnt be happy aswell, ngl.

Edit: I just realised that Ryze means jerk in english lmao. At least OP didnt get banned for saying Ryze too many times xD

Spearki2 votes

klatkage is a dish the enemy zilean names was splatkage (kage = cake) klatkage is when you make rice porridge and use the left over the next days to make it into pankages and do not mean scumbag fyi search klatkage on google images for proof.

mums=yummy btw

3sentence means something a long the line et more or now i shall just eat a lot its hard to translate (spises=eatting) (så skal der bare) (i shall just ) roughly translated in context means just to eat a lot of the above dish

hygge is not a word you can translate into english so any translation of this will be wrong : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2lnlAOAcKQ short video explaining what it means ( so any sentence translated with hygge is wrong)

tak tak = thx thx in english

de=they btw

sentence aat 20,39 completely wrong means you can't even "hygge" in normal without getting flamed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk5ylfxiEbE explaining hygge further its a complicated term for other countrys

the google translate is a bit more scuffed cuz of mistakes like bar which is meant to be bare but made space to early and suppose to be lige not elige

Lauchmelder1 votes

{quoted}

If riot has a list of words that will get you banned if you type them no matter what, they should consider other languages to avoid situations like these. Not doing it is just irresponsible.

They most likely do do that for all **supported **languages. Danish isn't supported.

Midg3t3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=9YecMEL5,comment-id=000600000001000000000001,timestamp=2019-08-27T12:31:11.684+0000)

They most likely do do that for all **supported **languages. Danish isn't supported.

And why is that? Because Riot is irresponsible :) This tells me that the current punishment system is so flawed to the point where even not being toxic might get you banned because some words in your language might be bannable in another.

Lauchmelder1 votes

No, because supporting 200+ languages is financially irresponsible. You don't know how business works, do you?

Spearki3 votes

Do they really have to support the language to understand context of 20sentences with a lot of the same words used again and again in those short sentences ?

all riots biggest server are non english speaking servers trying to disregard that any normal human being talks in their nativ language to another nativ and try speak english to other ppl that dont speak that language is completely normal

euw/eune combined is over 3 times aas big as na with lots of different nativ languages and lost of ppl that can't speak and understand english.

as well as kr is over twice as big and doesn't speak any english either nor do china which is even bigger not to mention all the other servers that either dont speak english at all or only to a certain degree.

its not unreasonable to ask riot to translate 25words it takes about 30sec to do so .

Midg3t2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=9YecMEL5,comment-id=00060000000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-08-27T13:34:05.682+0000)

No, because supporting 200+ languages is financially irresponsible. You don't know how business works, do you?

Banning players because they used words from their language, which has a non-toxic meaning, but it's offensive in english is also financially irresponsible.

How you ask? well, personally, if I was danish, I would quit the game after seeing this because this tells me riot doesnt give a shit about me because to them, my language is irrelevant compared to english. This tells me that if i use my language to communciate with some1 in-game, im in danger of getting banned if some of my words have an offensive meaning in english EVEN THO THE ORIGINAL MEANING ISNT TOXIC.

And who gives riot money? the players. So less players=less money being poured in riot.

At this point I would advise OP to quit this shit because if riot wont take into consideration other countries and their languages because they're not as used as english, they dont deserve players from other countries.

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