Whats the status for our Shuriman Emperor, Riot?

MasterPrankster·Apr 4, 2015·16 votes·5,353 views

I had posted earlier wondering if Azir would receive buffs, morello responded that he would, and he did. He's sitting at an OK 46% win-rate in ranked right now which is a a sign that he needs love in my opinion, are you guys working on him at the moment/is he on your agenda?

In URF he is killer, but I can't live up to my username right now in Ranked matches because he is a seriously niche pick right now. I think he COULD fit into all team comps if he got a little love but he needs too much help early game. While I think he does need to have a weak early game like all Shuriman hyper carries, his laning phase is too weak to handle some of the popular champions right now in the mid lane.

Just wondering if he is on the radar for buffing/changing right now, would love a response. Cheers!

33 Comments

RiotMeddlerApr 5, 20158 votes

We're currently letting him sit as he is for a while, to assess both the impact of the 5.5 buffs and to see how the changing state of the game (tank jungler return and Athene's buffs) affects him.

As far as win rate goes that's a data point that needs to be treated with caution, particularly on an extremely high mastery curve champion like Azir. A 46% average win rate for example could be associated with a champion that's weak or with a champion that's balanced (or even strong), whose average performance statistically gets dragged down by players new to that champ.

As far as being able to be picked into any team comp that's something we'd like to avoid where possible. It suggests a champ lacks sufficiently clear strengths and weaknesses which results in a champ that gets picked all the time if they're strong, leading to games that feel very similar to each other.

MasterPranksterApr 5, 20153 votes

That sounds fair, and about the last thing about him fitting in any team comp, looking back at that statement I can see where that would lead to problems. A more accurate statement would be he should fit in more team comps, but that's besides the point. The win-rate thing is also a bit of shaky evidence as also pretty silly of me as I know how hard Azir is to play effectively.

I'm happy where he is right now regardless though, as he's very fun to play and I can hold my own against alot of champions. I'm still finding success with him, steadily learning new tricks and gaining skill. I'm glad you posted Meddler, this gives me hope for Shurima.

Azir

RiotMeddlerApr 5, 20158 votes

Yeah, that's a good point, too few team comps being relevant's also a problem. If a champ's only effective under certain extremely narrow cirumstances they're probably lacking a necessary tool and/or extremely feast or famine. I don't think that's the case for Azir, that's just a personal estimate based off his recent state though.

Lady SeptimusApr 5, 20154 votes

:/ Like soraka? who seems to fit in only a couple of team comps

CuixApr 6, 20151 votes

Soraka's getting about as much Riot discussion as Cass, now. Not a good look.

Duke AnaxApr 6, 20151 votes

Soraka doesn't need it though.

She is good in any team with CC and armor/MR. She is good agaisnt Assassins.

CuixApr 6, 20151 votes

Ineresting, then, that in this tank meta which still has room for picks like Zed and Ahri, Soraka still isn't getting picked literally ever.

Duke AnaxApr 6, 20151 votes

It baffles me really.

Or well when I see her, I see her build wrong (no AP), probably the reason.

TheRakkunApr 5, 20151 votes

[deleted]

MasterPranksterApr 6, 20151 votes

but that brings in the dangers of having be able to attack outside the towers range.

Thats why they have the debuff of only lasting 4.5 seconds under turrets.

Cosmic WarperApr 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

As a person very fond of Azir I can say that he's not really in a good position, his early damage is too lack lustre to have him even the shadow of a chance to snow ball, and his late game damage is nothing compared to his old late game damage, now the enemy is not punished if he somehow is able to snowball.

When the patch notes said he was able to be a lane bully whoever wrote it mustn't be familiar with his through the roof mana costs paired with the fact that if he decides to bully he has no escape, he also pushes his lane very hard making him extremely susceptible to ganks.

If I was to say what should be done to him i'd say Q: 70/95/135/160/195 Magic damage OR You could just have the range increase as he invest levels into it, but that brings in the dangers of having be able to attack outside the towers range.

I'd rather just see his W have a lower mana cost. Zyra's W doesn't even have a mana cost to begin with and it gives cdr. Azir shouldn't have to spend mana on summoning soldiers, it just doesn't make sense when it is his core ability to even do anything.

RoakOriginalApr 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If a champ's only effective under certain extremely narrow cirumstances they're probably lacking a necessary tool and/or extremely feast or famine.

ehm-khazix-ehm... one of the worst performing junglers for few months already (dropped even lower with the cinderhulk introduction... and only few who had worse statistics - not only winrate... everything - are getting buffed...)... only thing he can do, is one-shot squishies super lategame, and even for that he needs those extremely narrow circumstances... so after several screwed mini-reworks and buffs for everyone but him he now oficially is, the worst jungler in the game... (and not a chance to lane with him, since he is extremely weak early-mid game)

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.overallPosition&order=descend&roleSort=Jungle

only junglers with worse stats than him are laners and eve... many primary laners are better in jungle than kha, who cant lane at all... and eve is getting buffed every patch...

tofutimeApr 6, 20151 votes

I think there are way more ways to counterplay azir than there should be. Since Azir can be compared to a sustained DPS champion let's compare him to an ADC for example. An ADC has to worry about 2 things, doing dps while having good position. This can involve kiting or dashing to a different area to get a new area of advantage while still shooting.

Now Azir on the other hand has to worry about 3 things. Soldier position, Azir's position and DPS. Azir's dps relies on soldier position. if they are out of soldier range, Azir needs to relocate his soldiers with Q which is on a pretty large cooldown being such a necessary skill. Also putting down a new soldier puts Azir in a dangerous location. The soldier planting range is very low. Most of the times waiting for Q to relocate your soldier is the only and best option. During this time the enemy is DPSing and relocating simply by right clicking somewhere or using a dash ability.

Currently, Azir relies on enemies being stationary or being held down by some CC to DPS. He can maybe build burst but then his gameplay is simply a worse version of Orianna. Orianna can reposition her ball much easier have more burst with Q W and has tankiness to get in closer with her shield.

It just seems like Azir is worse at both roles.

GorillazNtheMystApr 14, 20151 votes

Right, as of right now Azir really only works with team comps that have heavy frontline - at least that's been my experience with him. Even poke-comp teams that you would think he could slip into don't really provide enough defense for him (and that's saying something, considering he has a built in wall to chuck at people).

Has there been any consideration to buff his Q slightly, since that's an ability he relies tremendously upon? To say its base damage was severely reduced with the intention to turn it into a simply repositioning tool with no actual compensation is kind of unfortunate. It doesn't really have any significant range anymore, no significant damage without a Luden's Echo, and it still has a fairly high mana cost and cooldown. Orianna's Q, another "repositioning" move does more damage, has a lower mana cost, and a lower cooldown - wouldn't it be nice if Azir's repositioning tool were at least on par with Ori's? Why have a champion based on positioning if his basic positioning ability isn't that great, useful, or reliable (frankly)?

ZephyrDrakeApr 5, 20152 votes

{quoted}

We're currently letting him sit as he is for a while, to assess both the impact of the 5.5 buffs and to see how the changing state of the game (tank jungler return and Athene's buffs) affects him.

As far as win rate goes that's a data point that needs to be treated with caution, particularly on an extremely high mastery curve champion like Azir. A 46% average win rate for example could be associated with a champion that's weak or with a champion that's balanced (or even strong), whose average performance statistically gets dragged down by players new to that champ.

As far as being able to be picked into any team comp that's something we'd like to avoid where possible. It suggests a champ lacks sufficiently clear strengths and weaknesses which results in a champ that gets picked all the time if they're strong, leading to games that feel very similar to each other.

because we don't see champions who are strong at everything all the time and then nothing is done about them yet when one is strong at something specific they get nerfed... i don't believe that "we'd like to avoid something being picked in any team comp" thing at all

UdoIkOSc4uApr 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

We're currently letting him sit as he is for a while, to assess both the impact of the 5.5 buffs and to see how the changing state of the game (tank jungler return and Athene's buffs) affects him.

As far as win rate goes that's a data point that needs to be treated with caution, particularly on an extremely high mastery curve champion like Azir. A 46% average win rate for example could be associated with a champion that's weak or with a champion that's balanced (or even strong), whose average performance statistically gets dragged down by players new to that champ.

As far as being able to be picked into any team comp that's something we'd like to avoid where possible. It suggests a champ lacks sufficiently clear strengths and weaknesses which results in a champ that gets picked all the time if they're strong, leading to games that feel very similar to each other.

Lee sin have ben in this state for 3 years making jungle and lcs Boring while azir only 2 weeks and didnt get picked much in the lcs dude that is clear favoritism

TheRakkunApr 4, 20154 votes

WAIT WHAT :D PIGEON GOD YES! I mained Azir before his nerfs so I feel like I should chime in, the nerfs at first were over the top, and he was brought back to an OK position, but not great, he deserved some nerfs, specifically in the tower destroying department.

What I never understood is they said he was a lane bully and a carry, thing is everyone in midlane is a lane bully and a carry, that's sort of the point of midlane, it's a lane where champions are constantly poking each other in lane so they can get the advantage and carry, you see this with Zed Leblanc Katarina Ahri ect, now before you say that it's because they're assassins, I feel Azir too is actually quite the assassin, with fair mobility, some burst and some sustained damage.

I don't feel that he was in an unhealthy state before (Bar the tower destroying (Seriously that was insane, he did it better than Jax ) everything else was fine, i'd actually like to see the changes reverted, but I have a feeling riot won't do that.

SpongebobIsLifeApr 4, 20152 votes

yeah I love my azir, but he sucks in solo q now, I can't get ahead in the laning phase, and in many cases, the game is over if you wait it out for late game.

TheRakkunApr 4, 20151 votes

Yeah, He didn't have all that strong an early game before, he was EXTREMELY susceptible to ganks, given that to escape he needed to use all 3 abilities at once, being a heavy drain on his mana and also taking a large amount of time to do compared to the likes of Kat, Zed, Leblanc, Ahri, Kass, Yasuo, who's dashes/ blinks were near instant, I saw so many Azir QQ threads before his nerfs that were frankly unprecedented, and his ridiculous banrate seemed rather silly, having a very low winrate overall.

If he gets buffed I will happily ditch Viktor in return for Azir (OK I won't ditch Viktor, I love him, he's mine now)

Ariel the CruelApr 5, 20153 votes

I think he COULD fit into all team comps if he got a little love but he needs too much help early game

While I agree, I also think that this is the exact problem with some of the newer champs coming out. Lee is always good, Thresh is always good, Kali is always good, Nidalee is always good, Zed is always good, Victor is always good+. The problem with having champs that are always good, is they become an obstacle to diversity. You can Mid champ 1 who is the undisputed master of A, or you can have mid champ 2 who is almost as good at A, B, C, & D. There's not much reason to pick mid laner 1 in this case. Now you want another champ that can compete? Make another one do everything. Only now, you have a scenario where one will always be invalidated because the other is simply better.

I would like to see Azir become stronger in general. But it's simply no healthy for him, or the game overall. And he's rather strong right now, though incredibly niche. If he were to receive buffs, though should help reinforce his niche; not make him more of a generalist.

+Victor is kind of a new face on the block, but just you wait. The QQ will come.

TheRakkunApr 5, 20153 votes

Just revert the nerfs, except his tower damage one.

DorkunedAurasApr 5, 20151 votes

Just gonna throw out that the supposedly OP LeeSin is, and has for a very long time, been sitting right around that region of win rate. Win rate isn't everything, and Azir has been buffed back into viability. Throw some buffs at someone like Warwick , who they completely gutted after the disaster that was 4.20 one-shot Warwick . He has yet to get anything back from it, despite the fact that they nerfed both the smite and passive On-hit damage of item 3718 . His W has half duration and longer CD, his ult does less damage, when all they needed to do was kill the broken item, not the champion.

TheRakkunApr 5, 20151 votes

Azir isn't Viable yet, he's Niche, he has too weak an early game and snowballing is nearly impossible even if the enemy is being incredibly risky, he is not viable yes my friend, also Warwick needs his rework first.

GaleWinUnleashedApr 5, 20151 votes

Off topic, but I'm upvoting because of the summoner name. It's so much fun having a name based off our mains.

Spicy RiceApr 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Off topic, but I'm upvoting because of the summoner name. It's so much fun having a name based off our mains.

Are you a galio main?

Bet you can't guess mine

GaleWinUnleashedApr 6, 20151 votes

Janna main :)

D1rtFarmerApr 6, 20151 votes

Azir was really fun for about 2 weeks. After the bugs before the 2nd nerf.

Rinky DinkyApr 6, 20151 votes

To be fair, Azir has become meta again in LPL

So buffing him would be VERY dangerous.

I think they need to let him sit for a little bit.

He's still fairly strong imo

chriseritApr 6, 20151 votes

I feel like the only problem Azir has are his base stats growing. look at them Azir got a weak AS scaling (that could also be ok) but also a low HP, low MR, low HP5, low armor. That's the point.... Riot lowered AS scaling (cause otherwise he would be too strong with passive in addition) but they didn't give anything else in exchange for this.

if you look at the global champion base stats and compare them with azir, Azir is in the weakest spot for almost every stat (only mana pool is good but only because he require a lot of mana for his spell). Actually the things are two from my point of view:

increase growing AS (so that in early you got low AS but in late you got a lot)
increase base HP or armor/MR

personally I prefer 1 cause this is where Azir is strong and weakening his strengths is not really a great point

to compare base stats

Old Man TeetoApr 6, 20151 votes

Azir is fine.

Look at the LPL scene, Rookie's been destroying with Azir.

Also what Meddler said,

being able to be picked into any team comp that's something we'd like to avoid where possible. It suggests a champ lacks sufficiently clear strengths and weaknesses

DazarukApr 6, 20151 votes

It does take a while for Azir to become a threat. I'd say around 15 mintues if fed to 20-25 if decent farm. I personally dont think winrate is indicative of anything bad with him even though he does have problems punishing bad plays. I agree with the person who said W shouldn't cost mana though.

Meow Meow CafeApr 8, 20151 votes

His Q base damage is what really makes me cringe. I'd say keep his soldier auto attack range the way it is and increase the Q base damage a bit more. Before I used to snipe my enemies from a Q skill shot and it would be the most satisfying feeling ever or trade with them in lane and come out even or even out duel them although this would only happen when they get close to my tower and I ult them into my tower. I would expect to kill them as they retreat but now with current Azir I don't. The base damage on his Q is really low compared to other mid laners base damages. To deal the same amount of damage I have to use his Q twice, mind you they'll be walking away from the soldiers range or if they were smart they'd take advantage of the long cooldowns and his extreamly low damage early game. I know people often compare him and Vayne being played as "late game hyper carries" but Vayne actually has a steroid once she hits 6 where Azir had a small small that is actually quite easy to walk around. Main point is that I wish for his Q to receive minor base damage buffs. I was able to punish my enemies when they over extend, now they just walk away with a small amount of health as if the tower insec just didn't happen.