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Zed main discussing the Zed nerf.

MasterPrankster··83 votes·6,369 views

So I don't really think that this nerf is going to hurt as much as Zed mains believe.

Just went and experienced first hand the nerf and tbh here are the things you wont be able to do affectively anymore, which imo doesnt make our favorite ninja too bad.

>You CANNOT towerdive people with hard CC anymore, you have to bait it out beforehand or save your W to dodge it. >You will not be safe after using a W, W, R combo to catch an adc in the middle of a team. You gotta find another way to reach that person without burning your only escape now (W).

Your outplay potential IS NOT lost, the only thing you are losing here is those risky dives and teamfight assassinations. Both of which are still possible but not as easy anymore. I think this actually ADDS to Zed's skill instead of taking it away. (Reflex isn't all that is to Zed everyone, he is much harder to micromanage than to press four buttons very quickly.)

As an obvious Zed main, i'm actually glad these nerfs are in place because it makes Zed harder to play, and he will get more respect for making plays instead of angry jinx mains complaining to rito.

This isn't how I would personally nerf Zed, but to be fair this is a perfectly acceptable nerf, and I ain't even Salty.

78 Comments

SlytherinUmbreon51 votes

Wait, let me get this straight... Are you the first person here who's realized that making a champion more difficult to play without completely removing their options increases their skillcap/skillfloor? Kudos to you, good sir.

SmokinSickStyle1 votes

Difficulty isn't always related to how good are your plays or how many you can do, his new ult completely removes an outplay\prediction potential on few champs, such as Orianna or Lulu, reducing the amount of plays that you can make translates into being forced to stick to some other plays or inventing new ones, which in this case can be done BUT it's an utopia as it requires ulting certain champs melee range which again those champs won't ABSOLUTELY let you walk up to them.

Yes it didn't totally remove his outplay potential, but you cannot deny that it made Zed not easier nor difficult, just more binary then he ever was (Not implying Zed is a one trick pony mind you.)

Mecha MaIphite20 votes

Dodging an ability by pressing a button doesn't take skill. It takes a finger and decent ping.

Decision making, for some champions, is a big contributor to difficulty. This is why, in my opinion, Talon is harder than Leblanc despite having a very straightforward kit. He has to think before he goes in, because you have no effective escape without burning a flash or using your ult, which you want to use for damage. Leblanc, on the other hand, has a lot of escapes in her kit, and is also ranged, meaning you can get good damage off from a safer distance.

Troll Pool8 votes

{quoted}

Difficulty isn't always related to how good are your plays or how many you can do, his new ult completely removes an outplay\prediction potential on few champs, such as Orianna or Lulu, reducing the amount of plays that you can make translates into being forced to stick to some other plays or inventing new ones, which in this case can be done BUT it's an utopia as it requires ulting certain champs melee range which again those champs won't ABSOLUTELY let you walk up to them.

Yes it didn't totally remove his outplay potential, but you cannot deny that it made Zed not easier nor difficult, just more binary then he ever was (Not implying Zed is a one trick pony mind you.)

If you consider oneshotting someone BEFORE a teamfight starts and then being able to escape before anyone reacts a healthy play style. Then yes.. He is possibly less versatile then before.

But i honestly think that's absolutely ridiculous. An assassin is supposed to position themselves correctly, catch someone off-guard, catch someone out of position, or sneak in during the chaos of teamfights to assassinate. Just running up to a 5 man team ulting someone and being able to survive is just not a health playstyle for an assassin. And REMOVES the skill it takes to play such champions. Since you no longer need to actually think before you ult someone beyond "does he have a zhonya or QSS and can i burst him?"

SmokinSickStyle3 votes

I've never survived into a 1v5 dive whilst being able to kill my enemy, you guys are just spitting out biased opinions against Zed.

I don't get what you mean with oneshotting someone before a team fight starts, if you then say that an assassin is supposed to catch people off position, i repeat, try to 1v5 with Zed before a teamfight even with enemy not having bought Zhonya\Qss and see how much you can do if they have some sort of CC.

I suppose that if you can't herd sheeps, ignore them.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a393 votes

{quoted}

I've never survived into a 1v5 dive whilst being able to kill my enemy, you guys are just spitting out biased opinions against Zed.

I don't get what you mean with oneshotting someone before a team fight starts, if you then say that an assassin is supposed to catch people off position, i repeat, try to 1v5 with Zed before a teamfight even with enemy not having bought Zhonya\Qss and see how much you can do if they have some sort of CC.

I suppose that if you can't herd sheeps, ignore them.

Why would you jump into a 1v5?

SmokinSickStyle2 votes

Exactly, i don't, and the few times i did, i was unsuccessful, i said that because our friend above believes Zed is OP because he goes 1v5 kills one enemy and goes away unscathed, which is simply not true.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a391 votes

{quoted}

Exactly, i don't, and the few times i did, i was unsuccessful, i said that because our friend above believes Zed is OP because he goes 1v5 kills one enemy and goes away unscathed, which is simply not true.

He didn't say that though.

Yingzii4 votes

Jumping into a 1v5 is the least thing you can do as a zed player~~ i do have to agree on that positioning and keeping track of enemies cooldowns is the safest and best thing you can do even in team fights.

SmokinSickStyle2 votes

No way, no experienced Assassin player (I use mostly AD ones) goes into a 1v5 if the enemy is on par with gold and has some brain plus CC, jumping into a 1v5 is the worst thing you can do, both with Zed and with every single champ you play in this game.

Silents4291 votes

Fair nerf indeed.

Wish I could sell Zed though because I can't manage and time all my abilities together well at all.

IcyPepper13 votes

(Reflex isn't all that is to Zed everyone, he is much harder to micromanage than to press four buttons very quickly.)

When the few Zed mains I encounter act like reflex is all he is, and then talk about his outplay potential, it irks me.

Then you came along, and I have faith that Zed players will focus more on strategy, positioning, and timing like proper assassins and stop thinking that a free escape after an ult that makes you briefly untargetable is "outplay."

76Summers10 votes

As someone who doesn't recklessly dive with zed...this doesn't affect me much...

Joquan3 votes

Looks like you missed out on some fun.

Yingzii1 votes

"A lot" of fun :)

I am Madlife8 votes

But how could you understand zed...

If you're not faker...

http://rs147.pbsrc.com/albums/r289/gmontalc/DramaticLook-1.gif~c200 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW7Op86ox9g

Gengar7 votes

Still waiting for passive removal/rework..

qetzel1 votes

To be fair, that passive does a lot less for him than most other passives would do.

Gorgiolio1 votes

That's questionable.

qetzel1 votes

It is questionable.

My reasoning is as follows: Zed likes squishy champions. %Max Health is typically better against tanky champions. Not great for Zed, particularly as it is magic damage. He wouldn't kill a tank anyway, but no self respecting tank would ignore MR, for which Zed has no penetration. ADCs, Zed's primary target, typically fit some MR into their builds. This makes his passive worth tiny amounts late game.

Compare that to the advantages: 6-20% Max health (depending on his level and ultimate), reduced by MR which he can't itemise against. Something, but not actually all that much. It is less than 20 extra HP on a caster minion early on. It is useful but not much given his other tools for last hitting.

So yes, it is useful, but it isn't that useful

Eggstealer1 votes

Getting 10 CS (or more) ahead of your opposing laner because of the executed my under tower on minions means you have some extra sustain or dmg and can snowball faster. Just my opinion.

1000angrybees6 votes

A zed player who actually understands. Wow.

Reynard the ƒox4 votes

If you think a League of Legends player is going to respect you for anything, you've got another thing coming.

Transgressor7 votes

That and bringing logic to "whine about X champion" threads.

qetzel1 votes

Is it not "another think coming"? As in "That last thought was wrong, but soon you will realise and have a different though".

Reynard the ƒox1 votes

It's actually a reference to the game of tetherball, in which the 'other thing coming' is the ball from the other side of the pole.

Mapo3 votes

the 2 things you listed are actually pretty big for zed

Mooing Kev3 votes

I mean it can be worst with all the zed qqs on forum. I'm glad they stopped at just this. I hate how it limits zeds options but he definitely will be still playable.

GigglingAngel3 votes

He still has plenty of options...

Mooing Kev1 votes

Didn't say he has little options, just saying few of his options mainly defensive ults are now gone.

GigglingAngel4 votes

Well it makes sense, because his ult wasn't meant to be so defensive and safe in teh first place.

Mooing Kev1 votes

Maybe, I'm just too used to being able to ult in a team fight and r back to bait out some ults. I still think this nerf was not the right way. I've said this many times but a better nerf would be so his passive only works on champs and reduce w bonus ad ratio.

GigglingAngel5 votes

{quoted}

Maybe, I'm just too used to being able to ult in a team fight and r back to bait out some ults. I still think this nerf was not the right way.

That's exactly why the nerf was the right way, because being able to do stuff like that with absolutely no risk is not healthy, especially with how powerful the ult is by itself in the first place.

I've said this many times but a better nerf would be so his passive only works on champs and reduce w bonus ad ratio.

What would that accomplish, other than making his farming early game a living hell?

Lowering the bonus AD ratio, on the other hand, is smart, because it's currently way too high. It should not be increased by a percentage (especially one as high as 25%). That just encourages snowballing.

Egyptian2 votes

with how powerful the ult is by itself in the first place.

it's not though i don't play zed at all but i've watched it many times that the opposing teams just buy qss and zhonyas on squishies and he can't assassinate people on the go like most other assassins can he has to almost clean up

GigglingAngel1 votes

Not everyone's going to have a Zhonya's. The AD carry, for example, will not have it. They are a perfect target for Zed to focus.

Egyptian1 votes

QSS !

Silents4291 votes

I mean it can also be worse then the reality is all the people who got killed by Zed were complaining, not the Zed mains.

Volt Cruelerz3 votes

Honestly, I feel like the changes are good simply because, as you said, towerdiving with impunity is no longer possible. The change does make him weaker, but more importantly it makes him less toxic. If this turns out to have made him too weak, I'm perfectly fine with him getting a buff somewhere else. It's just that the reactionless tower diving was always something I've hated.

SociopathFriend2 votes

Holy shit, a thread about champion changes that isn't a giant chunk of complaint. You have my respect good man who is a Zed main.

followed swiftly by a one-fingered salute ya shadowy ninja-prick

A Miss Fortune2 votes

Zed just needs his laning ability to be nerfed, he's melee but makes early game a nightmare to high damage ranged champions because he has no mana, he can endlessly poke you, and he has an escape. I think simply nerfing his shurikens to having a permanent 14 second cooldown, and not allowing a second shuriken to pass through minions so easily would make him less of a toxic champion and make his laning phase more than him just spamming Q,W,E.

YossarianSensei1 votes

Yeah we need to nerf mobility

God knows Jinx and Annie mains are the most skilled players who always have to outplay their opponents

BluePolarizer4 votes

Annie requires some positioning and foresight since sometimes she has to engage fights, which isn't the easiest thing to do as a short ranged mage. Jinx is just... fking rightclick...

PL552 votes

naw man.... you can q then right click

Mandang01 votes

Jinx can actually be punished for being out of position. Zed/Annie really can't be, or if you do manage to catch Annie, she can dump her spell reel and make almost the same contribution she would have had she not been caught.

The thing that makes Jinx annoying is the same thing that makes Kat annoying - resets.

manbearswine1 votes

You know,you didn't have to write this large wall of text to state that "omg IF I SPEND W FIRST it would mean that I would have to survive A WHOLE SECOND(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) without a dash(though probably with a speed boost from botrk/yomumu's)" isn't much of a nerf.

cookiesforu1 votes

{quoted}

You know,you didn't have to write this large wall of text to state that "omg IF I SPEND W FIRST it would mean that I would have to survive A WHOLE SECOND(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) without a dash(though probably with a speed boost from botrk/yomumu's)" isn't much of a nerf.

Perfect example of how shitty some people in this community are. Dude makes a great post and you still have to be a dick.....

(not a zed player at all)

manbearswine1 votes

{quoted}

Perfect example of how shitty some people in this community are. Dude makes a great post and you still have to be a dick.....

On the contrary,the issue is trivial nonsense get's upvoted whereas more advanced(people not understanding higher levels of play often leads to downvotes) or controversial posts go unnoticed,whereas this crap does,read his post carefully,then reread mine,does he really say something I don't?

(not a zed player at all)

How is that relevant to anything? I never even said I'm one of the zed hate club,just that his post is pointless.

NinjaToad991 votes

[{quoted}](name=Not SkT T1 Faker,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ih3LJ4ib,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-05-14T23:37:55.896+0000)

which imo doesnt make our favorite ninja too bad.

What am I? Chopped liver?

LegitBacon661 votes

Do it to LB to????

Tmenov1 votes

I think the zed nerf is bullshit, why not nerf katarina who can penta kill by just pressing R? And ye, CC her CC her, I hear that enough, but u CANT CC her if she does 2k damage in 0.25, while zed, u could drop silence field, u could CC, so he wouldnt be able to do his Q E, you could zhonja, QSS, all those things... with kata / riven u cant, cuz riven just QQQ ur dead.. has a 1000000000000k shield, and a stun.. there are so many champs who arent balanced and riot refuses to nerf them.. they just wanna nerf everything that gets played alot in pro scene, like, the nerf on zed was really useless.. the buff on xin was useless, I mean.. xin was already broken and now they buffed him more.. GG rito, I wonder why I need school for game design When I see rito nerfing and buffing champs that dont need it.

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