What's Vel'koz going to lose in exchange for a "reason to pick"?

DrCyanide··2 votes·394 views

Some discussion from last month that covers Vel'Koz's state:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/5dJN5vf7-meddler-velkoz-thoughts

TLDR: Healthy, fun to play, distinct to play as, fair to play against, needs to have a more distinct reason to be brought to a team than he currently has .

I'm sorry, I just doubt Riot can change Vel'koz in a way that keeps him healthy, fun to play as, distinct to play as, and fair to play against. Something is going to break.

8 Comments

ScurvyNave1 votes

He'll lose a bunch of players if Riot's rework/update team doesn't tread carefully.

-also..I can't pick more than one option in the poll? Cause thats what may happen.

Samflash31 votes

I suspect the ability at risk is his W and E. His Q and R are his staple abilities.

WhiperSnapers1 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/jQmE1EjE-mid-year-mage-update?comment=001500010000000c

It seems your guys' expectations on how much we'll warp some of these champions just because they're in "the 6" is quite large and drastic. Guess it's understandable given some of our track record. It's important to consider that our changes have ranged from as small as Darius and Miss Fortune to as large as Mordekaiser and Graves.

Our current plans for Vel'Koz might literally be the smallest scope changes we've ever done in a class update. In fact, I could understand how some people may not even really perceive it as a significant update and more of a "patch note."

Either way, your downvotes are loud and clear. You don't really want Vel'Koz to change much. We don't really plan on moving Vel'Koz's core at all - just want to amplify what's already there.

DrCyanide1 votes

The point remains that they're messing with the closest thing the game has to a perfectly balanced champion. A nudge in any direction significant enough to give him a "why pick Vel'koz over X" is more likely to unbalanced him than anything.

WhiperSnapers1 votes

Dont get me wrong, I really like Vel'koz and I agree that he is basically the definition of balance in this game. The problem I have is with your post and most of the other "pls dont touch Vel'koz" posts on the boards. Almost all of these posts are designed to scare the reader (not always intentionally) into thinking that vel'koz is going to recieve a massive rework like: Graves. The people that read these posts and dont bother double checking the information will further spread this "vel'koz is going to be completely reworked" belief.

I'm simply trying to make sure that people know that Riot is planning to make small changes.

DrCyanide1 votes

Riot is planning to make small changes.

They say that, and at the same time they say they're planning on making changes big enough to have a clear reason to pick Vel'koz over Xerath, Lux or Ziggs. I just don't see how both can be true at the same time, while also maintaining his balanced state.

Let's assume that they're modifying his passive and replacing his W. I can't remember right off where the post was that mentioned they generally didn't like how it's being used to poke enemies through the wave while Q is such a unique ability for poking.

They can't replace W with a shield, that makes him too similar to Lux. They can't replace it with an area of zone control, that makes him too similar to Ziggs. They can't replace it with generic burst of near on demand damage, that's too similar to Xerath. So you're most likely left with some other utility/delayed damage combo. Obviously there are a lot of possible utilities that could be thrown in, both ones we already have in the game and ones we don't, but whatever it is this is going to be what defines why you pick Vel'koz. There's no way that's a small change. If it fails to become a reason to pick Vel'koz, the reason for picking Vel'koz for the mage update fails, and you're still in a situation where it would have been better to pick another mage.

The only way it works out is if Vel'koz is still considered the most balanced champion in the game and there's a distinctive situation to pick him. If both of those don't happen, then picking him was a mistake.

... Sorry if it feels like I'm going in circles, it's late and I'm tired...

WhiperSnapers1 votes

Sorry, but you cant really make these assumptions:

Let's assume that they're modifying his passive and replacing his W. I can't remember right off where the post was that mentioned they generally didn't like how it's being used to poke enemies through the wave while Q is such a unique ability for poking.

As Riot Statikk said:

Our current plans for Vel'Koz might literally be the smallest scope changes we've ever done in a class update.

I would like to remind you that Darius was in the recent Juggernaught class update. Now before you say "yeah and he was so OP" please read the following:

  1. None of his abilities were actually changed. They just added an additional line to his passive and changed some numbers.
  2. He was so OP after the rework, but once they got the numbers right he became much more balanced. Take a look at the Darius now and compare him to the one released right after the rework.
  3. Before the rework, there was no reason to pick Darius over another champion (some even considered him a bad pick since you either built AD and died before you could do anything or built HP and dealt no damage). Now there is a reason to pick Darius over X champion while at the same time he is not so OP that you would want to pick him for every game.

Now looking at Vel'koz:

  1. Statikk said that his changes were going to be the smallest of any rework. Since darius kept all of his abilities and "Vel'koz changes" < "darius changes" you cant assume that he will be losing his E, W, or passive.
  2. He will be OP on release but he will balance out in the end.
  3. Much like the current Darius, it will be much clearer when you should or shouldnt pick him
LatetotheRace1 votes

How about viability? why can't I vote that....

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