I dont understand why Riot thinks Vayne is still okay?

HandheldBrandon·Jan 13, 2015·5 votes·641 views

Seriously why would you give a champion that builds all damage to begin with a passive with the potential to do some insanely high damage already and then on top of it slap on one of the best chasing passives in the game and some really good mobility on top of it PLUS stealth. Seriously this isn't the season of top lane do it all's and invincible tanks. Last whisper makes armor a joke and Vaynes passive further compounds upon it. She might as well just be doing true damage period because right now she basically is.

IMO her W passive needs to be weakened. It was made when tanks were huge and killing them was a real chore but now they are too easy to kill.

22 Comments

SmokingPuffinJan 13, 20155 votes

Vayne is pretty weak right now. Her specialty in kiting and killing tanks is not much in demand and her short effective range is a serious problem against League of Assassins.

Probably Vayne doesn't need buffs or nerfs, but if I were picking, I would pick buffs.

DirewolfiezJan 13, 20151 votes

She shouldn't be buffed until tanks are. They're in a much shittier position than she is right now, and if you buff her, she'll just make it worse.

SmokingPuffinJan 13, 20152 votes

I agree, tanks are the priority right now.

That said, a buff to tanks is a buff for Vayne.

junglerboy16Jan 14, 20152 votes

The reason she isn't strong right now is exactly because tanks are so weak. % Max HP True damage isn't that powerful against somebody who can burst you and only has 2K HP, as opposed to an armor stacking tank with 5K HP.

JustMyBassCannonJan 13, 20154 votes

"A marksman deals damage? What the hell is this?"

Meanwhile, exaggerating about the strength of anti-tank offense, ignoring the fact that the problem is the weakness of defensive items due to a lot of nerfs.

DirewolfiezJan 13, 20152 votes

She naturally deals true damage while her core build includes % health damage and flat armor pen. How do you not see how ridiculous that is?

JustMyBassCannonJan 13, 20152 votes

Twitch was doing the same thing, for longer, but it's suddenly worse because...

DirewolfiezJan 13, 20153 votes

He's SO much easier to pin down, even if his stealth isn't tied to his ulti. Vayne gets a low-cost mobility spell as well as invisibility on her ult, plus her passive for chasing, while Twitch is completely immobile aside from his invisibility. Also, Twitch's passive is DoT, which has more counterplay besides not getting AA'd.

Also, the reason tanks are such shit right now isn't just because of the several nerfs to tank items, ADC items in general got buffed almost across the board, which compounded upon the tank item nerfs to put them in an even worse place.

JustMyBassCannonJan 13, 20154 votes

So it's worse because Twitch has to be more careful than Vayne, to circumvent the bluster and exposition.

Vayne's mobility and stealth are defensive by design (aside from her passive's chasing MS), which makes it better for self-protection. Instead of it being integral to her initiation, it's for repositioning and survival.

That still doesn't change the fact that Twitch has been doing true damage and buying %HP and ArPen for longer, and is actually more of a threat because he can deal it to the entire team at once, so long as he positions properly.

{quoted}

Also, the reason tanks are such shit right now isn't just because of the several nerfs to tank items, ADC items in general got buffed almost across the board, which compounded upon the tank item nerfs to put them in an even worse place.

Buffed across the board? Really? You must have absolutely no recollection--or possibly be unaware--of the history of items.

Pretty much every single marksman item in existence is weaker than it used to be. The only ones remotely close to their original stats are Phantom Dancers (which still lost 7% bonus MS and Dodge) and Statikk Shiv (because it's brand freaking new by comparison). Maybe Bloodthirster as well, because it doesn't fluctuate between 60-100 AD, but now you can only get 80 AD from it.

DirewolfiezJan 13, 20151 votes

Do you even remember patch 4.10? The Marksman patch?

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-410-notes http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/V4.10

They nerfed a few items but largely buffed the rest.

JustMyBassCannonJan 13, 20152 votes

Lifesteal, across the board nerfs except for specifically on Bloodthirster (which was later buffed to 20%). BotRK got its %HP buffed so that it was actually competitive to choose between it or BT. BF Sword was returned to 50 AD from 45. Infinity Edge was returned to 80 AD from 70. Mercurial Scimitar was buffed, no argument there. AS goes up by 3-8% on several items, bringing most of them back to their old values as well. Wit's End was the only one that has been 42% for its entire prior existence. Youmuu's active was buffed, specifically for Ranged champions.

I do remember that patch. That patch brought most AD items back to their old values. The only objective buffs for AD were BotRK's %HP and Mercurial Scimitar's AD. AS, likewise, was returned to former values. The only one that was actually buffed was Wit's End.

Maybe I'm not making it clear. The vast majority of the buffs from 4.10 were nerf reversions from the past.

HandheldBrandonJan 15, 20151 votes

What percent HP items was twitch buying back then? If you say Madreds BloodRazor then you need to slap yourself not only did that do far less damage than (4 percent max health vs 8 percent current health plus the 10 percent max health active) but it also did magic damage where botrk does Physical damage and benefits from armor pen and also heals for a huge chunk of health.

Twitchs passive only does 36 true damage at max level and stacks 6 times however its a DOT and once he has 6 stacks thats it all he can do is fresh the stacks. Vayne does 60 true damage every 3 attacks PLUS 8 PERCENT OF THE TARGETS MAXIMUM HEALTH. Since most Vaynes buy Botrk thats another 8 percent of current health and also the active. Even with True damage Twitch will never reach that amount of health shred no matter what he buys. Vayne is a tank eater in a time when tanks are at their weakest. Its like kicking a man while hes down.

LordKentravyonJan 14, 20151 votes

When your a full stack cho with 200+ armor and 4000+ HP and she still melts you there's a problem...

JustMyBassCannonJan 14, 20151 votes

No, the problem is that tank itemization is currently bullshit. Most big items are about 2/3 as strong as they used to be.

But the fact that a late-game anti-tank melted a tank in the late game is working as intended.

5G8Nri0B54Jan 13, 20153 votes

She witnessed her parents getting brutally killed as a child, this is as "ok" as she'll ever be unfortunately.

N3mO06Jan 13, 20151 votes

You can't build anything against her. Even if she is 0/10/0, with a botrk she will deals always unconterable damage

JustMyBassCannonJan 13, 20154 votes

Randuin's Omen is a fantastic answer to Vayne, actually.

Physical resistance for the massive portion of physical damage, health is generically useful for defense, and the AS slow directly weakens her %HP output.

What's so special about "uncounterable" damage? All damage is uncounterable, unless you have something like Kayle's Intervention.

HandheldBrandonJan 15, 20151 votes

Randuins is a good counter for nearly any ADC however Vayne's W counters the health and most vaynes will rush botrk which will further compound the issue. There is no true counter to Vaynes W. Health wont counter it. Armor will weaken her autos but her W will more than make up for it. Thornmail doesn't count against her W Frozen heart is a decent choice but then Botrk will counter that too. Can't escape her unless you got a blink/dash and a wall and thats if she doesn't have flash because there is no way in hell you are outrunning her.

Vayne was released in a time when Tanks and Bruisers were in such a godly state that someone like Vayne was absolutely necessary. However now that tanks are incredibly weak and with the introduction of Botrk Vayne is still too ridiculous.

WooBeeWooJan 13, 20151 votes

I agree i hate late game vayne

Colgate GatorJan 14, 20151 votes

Because it's her role to do a lot of damage if she gets close enough to you.

LordKentravyonJan 14, 20151 votes

When your a full stack cho with 200+ armor and 4000+ HP and she still melts you there's a problem

%max health true damage? I mean come on there is literally nothing you can do to that. Then coupled with the difficulty to kill her from knock back / stealth / rolls

Social Justice 1Jan 15, 20151 votes

Vayne is what I consider a "pure assassin." If for some reason Katarina CAN'T kill you, she's boned. But defending yourself against a Vayne is next to impossible.

She is, however. ONLY damage and aggression. Good splitpush (like every popular assassin), but dreadful at sieges or holding a tower. Good dragon/baron damage, but abysmal control over the dragon/baron pits. Can rush in and kill somebody, but running away means losing her passive (and even her tumble cooldown reset in many cases). Like markmen and assassins in general, she dies when you sneeze on her. Unlike marksmen and assassins in general, Vayne comes with no sneezeguard.