@Riot: You know I think you guys realy dropped the ball with Graves kit...

5G8Nri0B54··7 votes·1,365 views

The sole thing in his kit that has anything remotely to do with his shotgun is just his Q and nothing else. His R's just a really boring nuke. And worse of all...........the steroid you gave him is an ATTACK SPEED buff.

That's not to mention that his projectile is just a really underwhelming BB gun rather than slugs or buckshot.

I don't know about you, but Graves weapon should have been the thing that separates his style with other ADC's. Namely his focus should have been slow but much more impactful shots. Rather than granting AS, his steroid should have granted something else more fitting a shotgun.

Balance wise..........he's functional. But now that the game has over 100 champions, and they're getting more and more colourful, something like Graves just screams of wasted potential.

Also...why an attack speed steroid? More AD, more ArPen. Some other unique buff. Almost anything is more fitting than firing a shotgun like a machine gun.

16 Comments

Urdnot Entar3 votes

Plus they have Graves 2.0 now Lucian

Abilities: Straight line that goes through minions? Check Dash? Check Utility function that affects movement speed? Check Ultimate that doesn't do all that much damage? Check

Not exactly the same, but that's why it's 2.0 :P

Elemon1 votes

Utility function that affects movement speed? Check

Wow... So similar... It's not like pretty much every champion in the game has some ability like this or anything...

They're both AD caster marksmen. Of course they're going to be similar... They're not nearly the same, though...

Digezz2 votes

I agree, I love the design but on the same notes as you have mentioned, his Q should not have diminishing returns on multiple bullet hits.

5G8Nri0B542 votes

Wait.........I never said anything about his Q's diminishing returns...

I just said that it shouldn't be the sole ability in his entire kit that has anything remotely to do with his weapon's all...

Elemon1 votes

So he deals 3x as much damage if he gets within melee range? Makes perfect sense.

FalconPawwwwnch2 votes

Graves was made in a time where Riot was really trying to make the most broken ranged AD possible.

I mean the last one they released was Vayne and she was an abomination on release

5G8Nri0B543 votes

Ah, you mean around the time they started giving ADC's their own gap-closers in response to Riven having so many damn gap-closers whom herself was directly made in response to Irelia being so dominating.............................

Good times...good times.

Anyways. Balls dropped. Riot should pick it back up and find a way to make Graves more interesting.

Narasimha2 votes

You forgot the finisher "Irelia who was made in response to Ashe."

So really, its all her fault.

5G8Nri0B541 votes

wait...really?

I never heard them mention that before. I know from a Rioter that it went atleast as far back as Irelia. I guess it does make sense though. Granted I didn't know there was such an urgency that they had to make a champion to counter ASHE....

Anidan1 votes

It was a part of a thing counter her permaslow so she couldn't just slow the enemy bruiser meant to kill her (at that time, anyway) and keep on trucking, making the bruiser a testament to slow failure in the process. So they made a champion whose kit couldn't be countered as hard by slows which let Irelia get in Ashe's face and Irelia's passive would help her against Ashe's arrow and the cc of Ashe's team if she was in the middle of the teamfight like her kit wanted her to be. If I remember right, it wasn't so much an urgency as a reaction that Riot is so known for when they perceive something to be a problem. (cough) Olaf; pre-rework, then POST-rework Eve (cough)

Really, giving her what is essentially Drow Ranger's slow and Mirana's Arrow on the same champion was kind of overkill, but whatever.

Crazycatperson1 votes

Better nerf her then

Xela Syab1 votes

Idk man, that as boost is great for taking down turrets, I'ma huge Graves fan and I think he's a great champ to learn the carry role since he's safe to play. I feel he has a really unique kit and probably the best ad seige caster in the game. Granted he doesnt really even have a shotgun it's actually a grenade launcher...

I really think Graves just needs a showtime skin that makes him look like RON FRICKEN BURGANDY! Graves YOU"RE A SMELLY PIRATE HOOKER MissFortune item 3070 item 3070

Ironclad Dragon1 votes

I think they dropped the ball designing Annie. I mean, come on... why doesn't her Q provide a shield, block the next incoming spell and restore mana on 50% critical chance?

CoolKnightST1 votes

Ones you played Graves a fell times you come to the conclusion he really need that asp buff. It helps him on more than one way:

  • Helps his splitpush
  • Helps his waveclear
  • Helps his dps on extended fights
  • Helps stacking his passive faster

Graves already has great burst. By further increasing it, you will just decrease his counterplay in that area while still further decreasing his weaknesses what he already has plenty in his arsenal.

Additionaly, Graves is a AA-Caster!!! Not a AD-Caster!!! Their is a hugh differents between the 2. This is what defines Graves as a adc. If you don't auto attack with Graves than man. You really don't known how to play him and you missed about 50% of his damage output.

Graves is actualy in a good spot right now. After the nerfs towards Lucian he recieved some more play. If you want to put him in a tier list I would place him high in the tier 1 list. This is the main reason why whe don't see any changes on Graves right now. Despite the new season hit him a little bit.

If in the future Graves need some kind of buff I would go towards changes to his Smoke Screen. This is litterly the only ability that holds him down. A change that could be intressting their is further increasing the projectile speed from it. Currently any player with a little bit brain & reaction time can dodge it what really hurt Graves in my opinion since while this ability is not effective he lost a lot of his dps. Not only on the impact damage but also on the auto attacks that he now can't use because their is no slow. Whe have to take in mind that Smoke Screen is not designed as a close range withdraw tool and that the function from this ability both offensive as defensive really have a hugh gap unlike other abilities. Offcourse if you really want to give him a bit more ballanced burst they might could buff his midgame damage on it like:

  • From: 60/110/160/210/260 (+60% Ability Power) magic damage on impact
  • To: 60/120/180/240/300 (+55% Ability Power) magic damage on impact (for a more burstly mid game)
  • OR To: 70/120/170/220/270 (+60% Ability Power) magic damage on impact (for a more burstly early game)

However, I won't see riot do this anytimes soon. Graves is just in a to strong position right now.

Oleandervine2 votes

Ones you played Graves a fell times you come to the conclusion he really need that asp buff. It helps him on more than one way:

  • Helps his splitpush
  • Helps his waveclear
  • Helps his dps on extended fights
  • Helps stacking his passive faster

Graves already has great burst. By further increasing it, you will just decrease his counterplay in that area while still further decreasing his weaknesses what he already has plenty in his arsenal.

Additionaly, Graves is a AA-Caster!!! Not a AD-Caster!!! Their is a hugh differents between the 2. This is what defines Graves as a adc. If you don't auto attack with Graves than man. You really don't known how to play him and you missed about 50% of his damage output.

Graves is actualy in a good spot right now. After the nerfs towards Lucian he recieved some more play. If you want to put him in a tier list I would place him high in the tier 1 list. This is the main reason why whe don't see any changes on Graves right now. Despite the new season hit him a little bit.

If in the future Graves need some kind of buff I would go towards changes to his Smoke Screen. This is litterly the only ability that holds him down. A change that could be intressting their is further increasing the projectile speed from it. Currently any player with a little bit brain & reaction time can dodge it what really hurt Graves in my opinion since while this ability is not effective he lost a lot of his dps. Not only on the impact damage but also on the auto attacks that he now can't use because their is no slow. Whe have to take in mind that Smoke Screen is not designed as a close range withdraw tool and that the function from this ability both offensive as defensive really have a hugh gap unlike other abilities. Offcourse if you really want to give him a bit more ballanced burst they might could buff his midgame damage on it like:

  • From: 60/110/160/210/260 (+60% Ability Power) magic damage on impact
  • To: 60/120/180/240/300 (+55% Ability Power) magic damage on impact (for a more burstly mid game)
  • OR To: 70/120/170/220/270 (+60% Ability Power) magic damage on impact (for a more burstly early game)

However, I won't see riot do this anytimes soon. Graves is just in a to strong position right now.

I think you miss the OP's point. The kit may make sense on a technical level, but the OP is pointing out that thematically, AA reliance and attack speed steroids do not support the idea of Graves wielding a shotgun.

If you are unaware, a shotgun is a slow, excessively powerful weapon that fires a round that essentially explodes into shrapnel or it fires a large metal slug that can put a hole through a wall with ease. It can only hold about 2-10 shots depending on what kind of shotgun it is, with manual holding the least, and automatic holding the most. The closer the target is to the gun barrel, the more lethal the weapon becomes. There is practically no way at all to increase how fast you fire the weapon past a certain point, so the attack speed steroid and an AA based play style are contradictory to what a shotgun is.

To make it fit thematically, Graves should be a caster style ADC, with spells and abilities that give him spray and higher damage the closer he is to his foes. He should have slow, but immemsly powerful AA, and maybe even a passive somewhere in his kit that makes his attacks hit multiple targets. Then his kit would make sense thematically and be a little less cookie cutter.

5G8Nri0B541 votes

a fell times you come to the conclusion he really need that asp buff. It helps him on more than one way:

Well first things first, the main problem here is that he was designed poorly to begin with. So if her really needs that AS buff, that's due to poor design than necessity.

But more importantly, how do you even know if he "really really needs" that buff? The problem with many people is that they have difficulty seeing beyond what's already there. Many people thought Gnar will NEVER see any competitive play due to his inherent unreliability. But look at him now, a top-class lane-bully.

With Graves , he likely can be designed to be more shotgun-like, but people can not see it because they have difficulty imagining him as anything different than what they see. In this case, a little bit of creativity is needed.

Also, I'm not even talking about whether he is OP or UP. In fact, I feel he is completely balanced. However, BALANCED =/= well designed. Why do you think Viktor was reworked. As one of the few people who mained him pre-rework, he was perfectly capable of holding his own. But there was no denying he was poorly-designed, and Riot fixed him.

Riot should do that very same thing to Graves

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