Prediction: mid becomes top

DW Diana·Jun 9, 2018·2 votes·2,014 views

So here's what I predict: the toplane champions that beat assassins etc will move midlane (you can see it happening a bit atm) meaning tanks come back a bit in top. This will sre the tank shred mages (avniva/cass/malz) moving top which will bring their counters top as well, while the bruisers counters move to mid to deal with them there. Assassins will start going top to answer the mages there, while tanks will look to use their cc in both bot and top so will go mid, and juggernauts will be able to push through a short midlane with little answer.

I'm not saying this WILL happen, but it IS seeming more likely.

28 Comments

SwarmerJun 9, 20181 votes

assassins have replaced adcs in bot now

DW DianaJun 9, 20182 votes

{quoted}

assassins have replaced adcs in bot now

They have? When?

SwarmerJun 9, 20181 votes

Since this piece of s*** patch came out. ADC is unviable until 35 min on average, but games dont last that long, so oneshotters, vlad, yas, rengar, lee to name a few have become adcs, because, they can lvl 1 turretdive adc and oneshot it, while adc needs 12k gold to start playing, otherwise they are just farmbots.

DW DianaJun 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Since this piece of s*** patch came out. ADC is unviable until 35 min on average, but games dont last that long, so oneshotters, vlad, yas, rengar, lee to name a few have become adcs, because, they can lvl 1 turretdive adc and oneshot it, while adc needs 12k gold to start playing, otherwise they are just farmbots.

Oh so they're in the same spot as mages? Well, then I welcome you to the last 2 months of midlane. Sad isn't it?

SwarmerJun 9, 20181 votes

Mages arent that bad tho. Orianna, Syndra, Anivia are actually dominating mid, while adcs have to be pure farmbots with 100 cs per 10minute +2-3 kills per 10 min to be able to do damage after 35 min

DW DianaJun 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Mages arent that bad tho. Orianna, Syndra, Anivia are actually dominating mid, while adcs have to be pure farmbots with 100 cs per 10minute +2-3 kills per 10 min to be able to do damage after 35 min

I'm not sure how to respond to this... Maybe you should look at their stats and rethink...

VoraciousXJun 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Since this piece of s*** patch came out. ADC is unviable until 35 min on average, but games dont last that long, so oneshotters, vlad, yas, rengar, lee to name a few have become adcs, because, they can lvl 1 turretdive adc and oneshot it, while adc needs 12k gold to start playing, otherwise they are just farmbots.

It's been 10 days, OP.GG still shows ADCs dominating bot lane. It doesn't show enough data to even list Rengar, Vlad, Yasuo, or Lee Sin as bot laners. They're still listed as jungle/top, mid/top, mid/top, and jungle respectively. This would mean that it's not a dominant strategy and hasn't been played much at all, considering the lowest pick% ADC is 2.97%.

As for the original topic, top lane would be way too long for Anivia to move into it. Cass and Malz have more defensive tools to get away with it, but I highly doubt it'll become meta to bring mid laners top. Especially considering tanks and juggernauts and tanks aren't roamers(Tanks maybe could roam a little bit depending on the tank but they're not tremendous roamers), making mid lane kind of bad for them. Unless they start building mobis with waterwalking+celerity to roam, I can't really see this becoming a huge thing.

SwarmerJun 9, 20181 votes

it recently started, even pros play only assassins as adc now on streams, and dominate

VoraciousXJun 9, 20182 votes

{quoted}

it recently started, even pros play only assassins as adc now on streams, and dominate

Have yet to see that translate over to being a dominant strategy.

SwarmerJun 10, 20181 votes

At the moment you see it as very dominant, because some assassins can turret dive and 1shot adcs at lvl 2, have seen it in defts and bangs streams, how they get oneshotted, and then they slowly swapping to it and trying it also, andcompletely dominating. Only 1 adc at the moment seems able to counter it, and it is lucian.

They should return base defenses of adc, or make items cheaper, as they used to be, otherwise, adc does not exist in this game anymore.

Just checked leagueofgraphs botlane synergy: strong botlane figure irelia+nami, graves+nami, yi+nami, jax+nami, yi+morgana, jax+lux, yas+nami, yi+lux, irelia+lulu

These are only above 50% winratio botlane comps besides lucian+any champ, and some ezreal, jhin, mf, which are in rare comps above 50%, lucian is above 50% with anything supporting him, while every other adc stands at around 46% winratio.

VoraciousXJun 10, 20181 votes

Which assassins can level 2 one shot? Because no mid lane assassin that I know of has the damage or abilities to one shot someone at level 2 except for maybe Talon with ignite, which isn't really a one shot because he doesn't kill them all in 2 seconds or less. You need items and a full rotation for an ACTUAL one shot, even on Zed, and no one's going to have a serrated dirk at level 2. As for ADC win rates, you can look at every ADC's win rate on OP.GG and most are doing fine. Some might have a sub 50% win rate, but it's not terribly off. There are 7 ADCs with a higher than 50% win rate, 3 with around a 49% win rate or higher, and only 5 with less than a 48% win rate. It also shows that no other champions are being used commonly in those roles. It may seem dominant, but it obviously isn't if we don't see those champions at the top of the list(of which is made from the most played in relation to highest win rates, and no assassins are even shown on the list at all).

SwarmerJun 10, 20181 votes

Humm, you check champion.gg whih is most inaccurate site, go on leagueofgraphs, and check streams of progamers. With the i forot the name of rune, you get 10 lethality, and ignite, you literarily 1shot adcs, and adcs have only ~25 aror at level one now. Leesin does 300 damage at level one when dashing to adc, and pair it with ignite and a support - GG

And no, NA challengers are not good players, as EUNE former p3, im still g5 in euw and eune, i was at same time playing with 200ms p1 in NA, NA still sucks in every game as always, look for european NOT STREAMERS, BT ACTUAL PLAYERS JUST STREAMING, or KOREANS, they all just show oneshotting adcs on lane in streams at lvl 1.

VoraciousXJun 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Humm, you check champion.gg whih is most inaccurate site, go on leagueofgraphs, and check streams of progamers. With the i forot the name of rune, you get 10 lethality, and ignite, you literarily 1shot adcs, and adcs have only ~25 aror at level one now. Leesin does 300 damage at level one when dashing to adc, and pair it with ignite and a support - GG

And no, NA challengers are not good players, as EUNE former p3, im still g5 in euw and eune, i was at same time playing with 200ms p1 in NA, NA still sucks in every game as always, look for european NOT STREAMERS, BT ACTUAL PLAYERS JUST STREAMING, or KOREANS, they all just show oneshotting adcs on lane in streams at lvl 1.

No, I check OP.GG which last I checked Riot themselves said was one of their most accurates(And it uses Korean data in case you were wondering). Also a one shot is killing someone in two seconds. Unless 1 tick of ignite kills them after you use two abilities, it's not a one shot, and if the support helps it's definitely not a one shot.

SwarmerJun 12, 20181 votes

But these oneshtos are literarily below 0.5 sec :D Ive personally been turret dived by assassins at lvl 1, and have done it myself multiple times, fastest ive been oneshot under turret at lvl 1 from ful hp has been 0.39 by a leesin+rengar combo.

VoraciousXJun 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

But these oneshtos are literarily below 0.5 sec :D Ive personally been turret dived by assassins at lvl 1, and have done it myself multiple times, fastest ive been oneshot under turret at lvl 1 from ful hp has been 0.39 by a leesin+rengar combo.

How could a Lee Sin or a Rengar "combo" you at level 1? They only have one ability each and I don't know how they even pushed up to your turret without being level 2.

SwarmerJun 13, 20181 votes

by flashing out of bush before minions come and double ignite. Which then made a game unplayable for the rest of the game for anyone who wasnt tank.

iPooUnicornsJun 10, 20181 votes

Ehh, Bruisers still lose to mages mid, so mid just becomes more rock/paper/scissors

DW DianaJun 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Ehh, Bruisers still lose to mages mid, so mid just becomes more rock/paper/scissors

Like who? Bruisers can do more burst, have more sustain and are harder to kill. Mages scale better but in lane most can't do anything lol

iPooUnicornsJun 11, 20181 votes

Ahri Anivia AurelionSol Lissandra Cassiopeia Orianna Swain Syndra Veigar Viktor Ziggs Zyra

Control mages. They push waves much harder, harass when the bruiser tries to CS, and can disengage with CC.

Being a control mage vs a bruiser mid isn't about trying to get early kills. Your goal is hard shove waves to their tower, bruisers can't match a mage's waveclear. The key to doing this is to use your wave clear spell(s) on both the minion wave and enemy, the moment they walk up to CS, toss your spell(s) on the wave and champion, and then play safe while they are on CD.

When the bruiser is under tower, they have to make a choice: take harass every time they go to CS, or miss CS to not take harass. If the wave isn't yet under tower, you'll still have a bigger minion wave thanks to your superior waveclear, meaning if the bruiser tries to engage you, they take damage from a big minion wave as well as you.

Granted, some of these champions currently have a bad winrate against Irelia mid, but Irelia is incredibly overtuned atm, and nerfs are expected for the next patch.

DW DianaJun 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Control mages. They push waves much harder, harass when the bruiser tries to CS, and can disengage with CC.

Actually a lot of control mages use their cc BEFORE they engage in any way. Also half of those AREN'T control mages (I was going to list them until I realised how many you showed were NOT control mages lol). What I think you are describing are POKE/Burst mages (which again doesn't match all of those) and while they CAN play against bruisers, that doesn't mean they win against them any more then they win against assassins, they are VERY squishy and will die the second they are caught by the bruiser, unlike the other way round where you might get them down 1/3 of their hp over the course of a few waves only to oom and have to back.

Being a control mage vs a bruiser mid isn't about trying to get early kills. Your goal is hard shove waves to their tower, bruisers can't match a mage's waveclear. The key to doing this is to use your wave clear spell(s) on both the minion wave and enemy, the moment they walk up to CS, toss your spell(s) on the wave and champion, and then play safe while they are on CD.

Again love the idea, so you use your spells for CS'ing, you use your spells for poke, and with most/all of these mages you can do this for about 3-4 waves before you are OOM. You are right that you don't try and trade early with control mages, you try to scale, but bruisers don't have that issue, they can trade and cs with little to fear, though again you have show several champions that are not control mages for your example so I can appreciate the confusion.

When the bruiser is under tower, they have to make a choice: take harass every time they go to CS, or miss CS to not take harass. If the wave isn't yet under tower, you'll still have a bigger minion wave thanks to your superior waveclear, meaning if the bruiser tries to engage you, they take damage from a big minion wave as well as you.

When a bruiser is against a control mage and he's under tower they are unlikely to be thinking so much about cs as watching for you to come close enough for them to jump onto you. Never the less there are SOME mages that will be ok against bruisers in the same way that some mages are ok into certain assassins. The issue is that MOST mages won't be able to fight them successfully much like MOST assassin's can't.

Granted, some of these champions currently have a bad winrate against Irelia mid, but Irelia is incredibly overtuned atm, and nerfs are expected for the next patch.

Irelia isn't the only one I was thinking of, though I will admit seeing her come midlane is worrying. I'm just thinking that with 60% of games see one of 6 assassins in midlane per team (Plat+) show that their counters are going to have to come to deal with them. Irelia is obviously a strong counter, and can also deal with Yasuo, but think of the other toplaners that can also compete strongly against the hypercarry midlane meta. Then think of THEIR counters coming down from toplane to "deal" with them. This is the pattern I'm seeing a lot at the moment, with Irelia coming down, and someone picking Jayce or Renekton or Aatrox to deal with her, and suddenly THEIR counters turn up.

Some mages are finding homes in botlane, some in jungle, but we've seen it before that when a champion moves lanes to counter the picks there, others that counter it are never far behind.

Lastly Control mages: A mage that focuses less on damaging enemies and more on coercing enemies into favorable situations for you and your team, often by threat or use of crowd-control (stuns, slows, charms, etc) ,displacement (knock up, knock back, etc.) or a combination of the two. Effectively, their intent is to 'control' the flow of a team-fight through utility. Damage is usually a secondary for them unlike mages that spam spells to do damage or burst/poke mages that combine several spells at range quickly to the maximum amount of damage as quickly as possible.

Control Mages: Malzahar Anivia Fiddlesticks Heimerdinger Lissandra Morgana Swain Ziggs Karma Maybe Zyra Orianna though they're far more of poke mages imo

Warlord RhinarkJun 11, 20181 votes

I think bot moving mid, top moving bot and mid moving top is how things will turn out.

REASON FOR BOT GOING MID:

It's the smallest lane meaning farm is more accessible.
It's hella easy to ward because you're 2 people there.
Previously you had 2 people bot lane because of dragon but now that Rift Herald is a thing, 2 people mid makes more sense because they can go both top to help with herald or bot to help with dragon.
Since the lane is so small it makes it harder for people to gank meaning situations of "better ADC wins" don't happen as often. However, since it's centered in the middle of the map, it does make it easier for both top and bot to roam there.
Since the mid lane towers have Fortification it means Laning Phase will last a little longer which means ADCS will have more time to scale which means crit will finally become less shitty because games won't be decided within the first 10 minutes of the game.

REASONS FOR TOP GOING BOT:

Bot lane towers don't have Fortification so that makes it easier to shove in the way to later on prepare for a split push.
Early Dragons are way more important than early Rift Heralds and Mages aren't exactly that good at killing Dragons due to their lack of health and their basic attacks being rather weak.
The lane itself is literally just mirrored from Top lane.

REASONS FOR MID GOING TOP:

Nothing actually. We just need a place to put them.

DW DianaJun 11, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wPxdT3VY,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-06-11T13:32:28.442+0000)

I think bot moving mid, top moving bot and mid moving top is how things will turn out.

REASON FOR BOT GOING MID:

It's the smallest lane meaning farm is more accessible.

It's hella easy to ward because you're 2 people there.

Previously you had 2 people bot lane because of dragon but now that Rift Herald is a thing, 2 people mid makes more sense because they can go both top to help with herald or bot to help with dragon.

Since the lane is so small it makes it harder for people to gank meaning situations of "better ADC wins" don't happen as often. However, since it's centered in the middle of the map, it does make it easier for both top and bot to roam there.

Since the mid lane towers have Fortification it means Laning Phase will last a little longer which means ADCS will have more time to scale which means crit will finally become less shitty because games won't be decided within the first 10 minutes of the game.

REASONS FOR TOP GOING BOT:

Bot lane towers don't have Fortification so that makes it easier to shove in the way to later on prepare for a split push.

Early Dragons are way more important than early Rift Heralds and Mages aren't exactly that good at killing Dragons due to their lack of health and their basic attacks being rather weak.

The lane itself is literally just mirrored from Top lane.

REASONS FOR MID GOING TOP:

Nothing actually. We just need a place to put them.

Interesting thought. The thing with changes to the duo lane moving from bottom is for it to be successful the person you put bot lane has to be able to 2v1 initially as your opponents are unlikely to follow the same tactic, much like when people try to cheese top lane by having no jungler, they HAVE to win hard or the enemy jungler and top laner will just be too strong for them to contend with. The second the solo top laner can farm under tower without dying/2v1 is the second the game is done.

Also like the honesty of the midlaners. They are rapidly loosing their place in the game. Someone mentioned a couple of mages are moving to the duo lane (viktor I believe it was) and we've seen taliyah jungle. Zed has been seen in bot lane as well, and it won't be long before we see talon/taric combo coming through (talon W can clear a wave are a little damage is done to each minion so someone like taric or Rakan to get that damage would allow for a quick clear, but also allow Talon to kill his laner at that wonderful level 2 spike xD).

I do think the top going bot has potential, but if you think about it bot lane tower going down is often a result of a roam from mid, meaning top laners can still be mid and have that effect on bot lane tower.

VvVVvVJun 11, 20181 votes

its been happening already for weeks, even longer,.........ive seen yasuo, cassiopea, karthus all top .....vlad has been used top a couple seasons now.

But im fine with that......there is no rule book to this game.

DW DianaJun 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

its been happening already for weeks, even longer,.........ive seen yasuo, cassiopea, karthus all top .....vlad has been used top a couple seasons now.

But im fine with that......there is no rule book to this game.

Cassio top has been a cheese for weeks yes, but is not standard, Yasuo has been a top laner since he started coming mid lane so nothing new there, karthus top I've not see before I must admit, but I'd imagine it's just more of the "I wonder if this works" style rather then them changing lane.

What I'm expecting is for top laners to become a norm in the mid lane. Not just some, but most. Not just those few that can play both lanes like Vlad and Jayce, but champions like Aatrox, renekton, Illaoi and Irelia. These are starting to be played regularly in mid, with Irelia being the main one having a higher play rate then most mages already, but it won't be long before those that counter or can go even with her move down to mid as well. There are also a lot of other top laners that counterthe assassin/yasuo midlane meta that has taken over, so I can't see them not moving as well, leading to those that counter/go even with them also moving to mid.

JarringJun 13, 20181 votes

laneswaps have been going on for quite awhile now... if anything i'd like to see the Rift Herald changed a bit to make it more accessible to the adc/support early game rather than tanks/bruisers.. typically the adc just takes farm and pushes towers right? the rift herald seems to be great for pushing towers, and it would also give them a nice early objective. Sure it's a great objective for top lane bruiser/tanks...but i think it would be a better idea for the adc to have it when they can't freely farm other lanes...it also directly ties into their main role of poking down towers. I'd love to see the top and bottom lane switch for that reason. otherwise it's just a bunch of metavoodoo magic based on what other people might pick in a game.

DW DianaJun 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

laneswaps have been going on for quite awhile now... if anything i'd like to see the Rift Herald changed a bit to make it more accessible to the adc/support early game rather than tanks/bruisers.. typically the adc just takes farm and pushes towers right? the rift herald seems to be great for pushing towers, and it would also give them a nice early objective. Sure it's a great objective for top lane bruiser/tanks...but i think it would be a better idea for the adc to have it when they can't freely farm other lanes...it also directly ties into their main role of poking down towers. I'd love to see the top and bottom lane switch for that reason. otherwise it's just a bunch of metavoodoo magic based on what other people might pick in a game.

Bot tower is already weak, whereas top and mid are stronger. this is why rift herald is that side of the map.

JarringJun 13, 20181 votes

i actually didn't know about that until now. and from what i read it was just to keep the adc and sup in one lane to keep them from constantly switching.. meh.. if it was designed so that adc/sup takes riftherald instead, they wouldn't need to nerf the bot tower. might be too different and specific for pro play though, idk. also the riftherald was never designed to be easily taken by early adc/sup so idk how that would affect things either. I just thought it would be interesting.

DW DianaJun 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

i actually didn't know about that until now. and from what i read it was just to keep the adc and sup in one lane to keep them from constantly switching.. meh.. if it was designed so that adc/sup takes riftherald instead, they wouldn't need to nerf the bot tower. might be too different and specific for pro play though, idk. also the riftherald was never designed to be easily taken by early adc/sup so idk how that would affect things either. I just thought it would be interesting.

Nah its cool, it's was changed back in s6 so I only know about it from the boards. XD