Can we talk about Malzahar yet?

DW Diana··13 votes·8,782 views

Edit: Please read the post before commenting...

Hi All,

So a couple of months ago there was a LOT of talk on the boards about my main Malzahar. There were posts with Polls, posts with rework ideas, posts requesting reverts, and even one poor guy who came back to the game after 2 years and was in shock lol.

Anywho the whole thing went on for a few weeks, with multiple people questioning potential changes in Dev corner to no avail. In fact over this period the only thing riot actually did say was by maple saying "AD malzahar is a possibility in the next few months."

Well here we are after mana changes, jungle changes and adc changes, with support and fighter changes just around the corner. The meta has gone from about 15-20 champions being played midlane regularly to just 8-9 holding 80% of the total pickrate, and Malzahar has dropped to below 2% pick rate on champion.gg as i write this post. Even as a Malzahar main I've seen my winrate from from 62% to 53% in the last few months to the point I've just stopped playing ranked, and I know I'm not the only one (This is a similar story for a lot of Mage mains).

Over this time we've had a guy posting in dev corner looking for some response from Meddler, and hes been ignored. That's 2 months, with 3 posts ish a week from meddler, every time he's given no response.

So I'd like to put forward the following for anyone that does OR doesn't play malz, but doesn't like the current "hyper carry" midlane meta, to consider. I'm ready to be downvoted for saying this, but the current meta in midlane is due to Malz and his type needing work. I know, sounds pretty narrow minded yeah? But think about it for a second.

Who was the counter for midlane Yasuo last season? Who was the counter for Zed? Who countered LB pre and post rework? Who countered Zoe when she came out? Who countered Kat? Who countered Ahri?

Malzahar was the "go to" counter for every hypermobile hypercarry in the game (minus Fizz because of his ult >.<). So who countered Malz? Most mages actually, especially "poke" mages like Xereth, Vel'koz, Syndra (god I hated them). So who countered them? Control/Spam Mages like Anivia, Taliyah, Cassiopia.

Also remember Galio and Kassadin? These two were AP champions designed to counter AP champions. Kassadin has dropped to a 1.3% playrate, to a 0.8% playrate.

Now I'm not saying "Buff Malz and all will be well", but when you take away the main counters to an entire champion group, all of which snowball, leaving them only to counter each other, then naturally the will rise to dominate, and the counters of the counter, and their counters and so on will barely get played.

So how could we "fix" malzahar? Well his W would need to revert/change. This "spam voidlings" thing removed all the skill from timing this ability right, and effectively nerfed his burst. This for me and MOST Malz mains is his biggest problem and the first thing to be changed.

His passive is both OP to some and underwhelming to others. It can be broken with an AA and doesn't actually block all the damage (so can't be used with banshees). However it does stop the CC effects of any spell, and is on a relatively good CD. Far better to remove this and give him a passive that is less pointless/safe. I like the idea of an Kennen/annie style stun.

His ult. Oh god his ult... That suppression that costs him so much, yet is hated by his enemies almost as much as by those that main him. Kill it, give him old Null Zone with a grounding effect and a larger/growing area to lock down those he is meant to counter. With the passive being a stun he doesn't really need the suppression anyway, and he'll be able to move after he casts it.

All of this will allow his other abilities to have their effects/damage/duration changed back again (moderately of course, 2 second q silence was a little silly xD).

Final thoughts. Malzahar isn't the ONLY one. Lissandra is another that used to work this way, and would need little to no effort to fix. And there are no doubt a few more. But in reality riot need to aim at bringing champions like these back into the meta as counters, not as wave clearing monkey's with a flash ult that costs people 1300 gold to counter. This is the fastest, easiest and most productive way they can balance the midlane pool.

So yeah, I think it's time to start talking about him again. Constructive comments welcome, trolls never really are but when you build a bridge they always come. Also think about how to get a response from Riot.

Lord Loki

29 Comments

Salson4 votes

You know, reading this I came to understand why the rework failed.

Does anyone actually know what Malz even is? -DoT mage? -Burst mage? -Control anti-mobility mage? -Summoner? -Can/should point-and-click be a part of someone's 'fantasy'? -Are portals a part of his 'fantasy'?

You could legit rework his into: -Point-and-click burst mage -Point-and-click DoT summoner -Control anti-mobility portal mage -Burst DoT mage -Portal summoner And it would still be Malz in a way.

My personal favorite would a sort of portal-control-summoner, as we don't really have that.

DW Diana3 votes

{quoted}

You know, reading this I came to understand why the rework failed.

Does anyone actually know what Malz even is? -DoT mage? -Burst mage? -Control anti-mobility mage? -Summoner? -Can/should point-and-click be a part of someone's 'fantasy'? -Are portals a part of his 'fantasy'?

You could legit rework his into: -Point-and-click burst mage -Point-and-click DoT summoner -Control anti-mobility portal mage -Burst DoT mage -Portal summoner And it would still be Malz in a way.

My personal favorite would a sort of portal-control-summoner, as we don't really have that.

Malzahar is a control mage. He has shorter range then a lot of mages (which is why he sucks again poke mages). He uses Dots and minions to do damage, and his ult was originally there to hold them in place so his damage would have impactat close range. He was never meant to be a spam mage, his poke was designed to only hit you if you positioned badly, and his voidlings were there to further punish this (they were never meant for a spam waveclear ability).

Kurt Hyzan1 votes

"Portal mage" sounds fucking awesome, and would be something totally new in the game.

DW Diana1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kurt Hyzan,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EHmAEOfo,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2018-06-09T20:17:24.111+0000)

"Portal mage" sounds fucking awesome, and would be something totally new in the game.

I suggested a rework based around portals and summoning a while back, also had points towards being a seer etc.

Dope Solo3 votes

Its not the champ, its the retarded balance philosophy which has invalidated nearly the entire class.

DW Diana1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dope Solo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EHmAEOfo,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-09T12:54:51.999+0000)

Its not the champ, its the retarded balance philosophy which has invalidated nearly the entire class.

I get that, but consider it as a circle.

Malz etc > Assassins > Control/Spam Mages > Poke Mages > Malz etc. Take out Malz etc. Everyone still has the same counters except the assassin's. Look at the meta. You see my point?

Giga Baboon3 votes

Malzahar doesn't counter assassins. He just doesn't lose to some of them automatically like most mages (Talon straight up counters Malz, highest ranked Malz player says Zed is one of his worst match ups, assassins with sustain like diana/akali destroy Malz because of his low damage, Fizz/Kat/Leblanc all have kill pressure on you if you make one mistep). He hasn't countered assassins since they look all of his kill pressure away by nerfing his damage 5 patches in a row.

DW Diana2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Giga Baboon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EHmAEOfo,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-09T16:10:15.827+0000)

Malzahar doesn't counter assassins. He just doesn't lose to some of them automatically like most mages (Talon straight up counters Malz, highest ranked Malz player says Zed is one of his worst match ups, assassins with sustain like diana/akali destroy Malz because of his low damage, Fizz/Kat/Leblanc all have kill pressure on you if you make one mistep).

He USED to counter them before they screwed him up last season. That's kinda the point. Talon for example strews malz because his W kills his voildings in 1 shot (like more things), as does Zed Q. Ask your highest ranked Malz main when he last saw Malz as a counter to Talon/Zed, he'll tell you "when his W wasn't crap and he did damage."

Malz USED to counter assassin champions because getting his Malefic Visions on you was SCARY. He'd spawn his voidlings, they'd multiply, and you couldn't just press a button and kill them. Now you get Malefic Visions on you, you laugh, press one button and know you're just screwing the Malz's mana over by eating that 50 damage. Some champions TRY to get it on them...

He hasn't countered assassins since they look all of his kill pressure away by nerfing his damage 5 patches in a row.

I know, which is why we need him back? I'm not sure whether you are agreeing with me now or not...

KlydeFrog1 votes

Whats funny is zilean counters all the champs you named

Ifneth1 votes

He has to lose his R if he wants his waveclear and laning power back. It’s why he was picked at Worlds. Flash-R-Ignite means that it doesn’t even matter if the jungler has to walk over a ward. You’re literally dead 100-0 with no counterplay until you buy QSS.

DW Diana1 votes

{quoted}

He has to lose his R if he wants his waveclear and laning power back. It’s why he was picked at Worlds. Flash-R-Ignite means that it doesn’t even matter if the jungler has to walk over a ward. You’re literally dead 100-0 with no counterplay until you buy QSS.

Awesome! Malz has no 100-0 potential, but yes with someone else doing damage would often allow him an assist. Now ready the post and make a comment. I mention several changes, and included his ult in it xD

Ifneth1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Loki1987,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EHmAEOfo,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-06-09T17:32:10.176+0000)

Awesome! Malz has no 100-0 potential, but yes with someone else doing damage would often allow him an assist. Now ready the post and make a comment. I mention several changes, and included his ult in it xD

It’s not just the gold advantage that he enjoys from a gank. Malzahar use his waveclear to slow-push a giant wave into the turret and then use his ult to dive with the jungler.

Getting a kill or assist for himself, denying the enemy two waves of minion gold and experience, and having them on a death timer is essentially game over midlane in professional play. The jungler can take dragon, herald, or the turret, and he and Malzahar can do it again unless the enemy laner buys QSS, which delays their build greatly and for which they might not even have enough gold.

Ah, sorry, I didn’t read the ult comment.

DW Diana1 votes

{quoted}

It’s not just the gold advantage that he enjoys from a gank. Malzahar use his waveclear to slow-push a giant wave into the turret and then use his ult to dive with the jungler.

Cool, so get get a gank, use your ult etc to secure the kill, push MAYBE 1 and a half waves into the tower, then roams and uses his ult again? Or is the jungler 100-0 his laner? Or is he building this wave with his laner alive? Sorry but I've mined malz for a while and can say this is not a likely option or outcome at any point.

Getting a kill or assist for himself, denying the enemy two waves of minion gold and experience, and having them on a death timer is essentially game over midlane in professional play. The jungler can take dragon, herald, or the turret, and he and Malzahar can do it again unless the enemy laner buys QSS, which delays their build greatly and for which they might not even have enough gold.

Again, in pro play I get why malz is strong, but outside of pro play he's just BAD right now. Champions like Zed and Talon will be unlikely to ever go there, while having someone with an ult that suppresses for so long on a point and click will always be ok. But riot need to think about more then just pro play: even the pros are complaining about the recent changes and the games current balance lol.

Ah, sorry, I didn’t read the ult comment.

No worries, you weren't the only one to read a bit then comment lol.

Ifneth1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Loki1987,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EHmAEOfo,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-09T19:37:22.871+0000)

Cool, so get get a gank, use your ult etc to secure the kill, push MAYBE 1 and a half waves into the tower, then roams and uses his ult again? Or is the jungler 100-0 his laner? Or is he building this wave with his laner alive? Sorry but I've mined malz for a while and can say this is not a likely option or outcome at any point.

Again, in pro play I get why malz is strong, but outside of pro play he's just BAD right now. Champions like Zed and Talon will be unlikely to ever go there, while having someone with an ult that suppresses for so long on a point and click will always be ok. But riot need to think about more then just pro play: even the pros are complaining about the recent changes and the games current balance lol.

No worries, you weren't the only one to read a bit then comment lol.

You can’t do it anymore, but before his nerfs, he could use his waveclear advantage to build the wave up and crash it even if his opponent played well.

Oh, yeah, totally rework him. He’s built around not interacting with his lane opponent. Spell shield to block shots. Minions and DoT to push the wave for him. Silence to deny more shots. Suppression to totally shut down an opponent. It’s frustrating for his opponents, and frankly I don’t see how it’s fun for his players.

DW Diana1 votes

{quoted}

You can’t do it anymore, but before his nerfs, he could use his waveclear advantage to build the wave up and crash it even if his opponent played well.

Oh yeah he used to, but now he can't. Now he can't do shit lol.

Oh, yeah, totally rework him. He’s built around not interacting with his lane opponent. Spell shield to block shots. Minions and DoT to push the wave for him. Silence to deny more shots. Suppression to totally shut down an opponent. It’s frustrating for his opponents, and frankly I don’t see how it’s fun for his players.

His dot does little to no damage, voidlings do to minions but die instantly, silence is ok because you need it to get close enough to do his waveclear. I want a revert initially so they have time to rework him properly, but something has to change...

Ifneth1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Loki1987,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EHmAEOfo,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-09T20:13:27.404+0000)

Oh yeah he used to, but now he can't. Now he can't do shit lol.

His dot does little to no damage, voidlings do to minions but die instantly, silence is ok because you need it to get close enough to do his waveclear. I want a revert initially so they have time to rework him properly, but something has to change...

It’s not how good his abilities are but what they’re supposed to do. I want his kit to require interaction and risk-taking.

DW Diana1 votes

{quoted}

It’s not how good his abilities are but what they’re supposed to do. I want his kit to require interaction and risk-taking.

While I agree, I don't feel his current kit fits that ideal. Risk taking his passive can negate but is imobility and being cc'ed by his own ult give. Interactive, E refreshing is kinda it. I miss when his voidling required timing and rewarded great damage.

Christ Superstar1 votes

I just want a full revert and then taking it from there - He went from being one of the most untouched champions, to being a far worse/cancerous version since mage update.

DW Diana1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Christ Superstar,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EHmAEOfo,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-06-09T21:29:15.332+0000)

I just want a full revert and then taking it from there - He went from being one of the most untouched champions, to being a far worse/cancerous version since mage update.

This is also my opinion.

Verandure1 votes

My draw to Malzahar was how similar he was to a Warcraft warlock: Burst (Destruction, Q), DoT (Affliction, E), minion (Demonology, passive). If I remember correctly, he was changed in the hopes that he would become more interactive during the laning phase -- a mark I think they missed. Were I to have my druthers, he would have been changed like this:

Passive:

On every fourth ability use, Malzahar summons a Voidling that that lasts for 21 seconds or until killed. If Malzahar dies, the Voidling stays behind but stops attacking.

Voidlings grow in size after 7 seconds, gaining 50% bonus attack damage and 50% bonus armor. After another 7 seconds, they frenzy and gain 100% bonus attack speed.

Measuring the number of spells used to get a voidling out at a good time was interesting. A lot of people complaining that the damage was incidental considering they didn't scale with AP, but I found that to be a worthy trade-off for how they helped to clear waves.

Q:

ACTIVE: After a 0.25-second delay, Malzahar summons two orbs at the target location perpendicular to where he is facing, after a 0.4-seconds delay dealing magic damage to all enemies caught between the orbs and silencing them.

Call of the Void is a good ability, as is. It's telegraphed, gives time to react, and feels satisfying when it's landed.

W:

ACTIVE: Malzahar rips Malefic Visions from the target, dealing 25% of the remaining damage to the target. Malzahar can recast within 2 seconds to transfer the Malefic Visions to a new target.

A new ability to replace both the voidling swarm and the null zone. This moves to make Malzahar more active in maintaining and moving his DoT in a fight.

E: Cooldown reduced

ACTIVE: Malzahar infects the target enemy's mind, dealing them magic damage (x Stack) every half second over 4 seconds. Damaging a target with Call of the Void or Nether Grasp will refresh the duration of Malefic Visions. Stacks up to 5 times

If the target dies during this time, they pass Malefic Visions onto the closest enemy, refreshing the duration and restoring 0.5% (x Stack) of Malzahar's maximum mana.

The primary difference here is a stacking mechanic in the E. The damage and mana refund ramps up per stack. This has the effect of making his damage spread out, making him less bursty, and forcing him to stay in the wave for longer than currently. Further, by reducing the cooldown on E (such that you could conceivably stack it, early game before CDR) you give a synergy with the passive.

R: Range reduced

ACTIVE: Malzahar Knockdown icon knocks down the target enemy champion. For the next 2.5 seconds Malzahar channels, during which the target is suppressed and dealt magic damage based on the number of Malefic Visions stacks on the enemy every 0.25 seconds.

Reducing the range on the R and tying its damage to the number of stacks on the target encourages premeditated plays rather than flash ults. Because the suppression is intact, people would obviously still use him as a stun-bot, though.

This keeps what I feel his identity is (Damage from DoTs and minions) while attempting to make him more interactive in lane. The suppression is probably still a big problem, but I haven't been able to come up with something better that isn't just a Brand conflagration or a Ryze double spell flux.

DW Diana1 votes

{quoted}

My draw to Malzahar was how similar he was to a Warcraft warlock: Burst (Destruction, Q), DoT (Affliction, E), minion (Demonology, passive). If I remember correctly, he was changed in the hopes that he would become more interactive during the laning phase -- a mark I think they missed. Were I to have my druthers, he would have been changed like this:

I have to agree on all counts tbh

Passive:

Measuring the number of spells used to get a voidling out at a good time was interesting. A lot of people complaining that the damage was incidental considering they didn't scale with AP, but I found that to be a worthy trade-off for how they helped to clear waves.

So a revert

Q:

Call of the Void is a good ability, as is. It's telegraphed, gives time to react, and feels satisfying when it's landed.

Needs a longer silence then currently

W:

A new ability to replace both the voidling swarm and the null zone. This moves to make Malzahar more active in maintaining and moving his DoT in a fight.

Id rather see this as a way to spread e then just reducing the damage. Read the next bit to make sense.

E: Cooldown reduced

The primary difference here is a stacking mechanic in the E. The damage and mana refund ramps up per stack. This has the effect of making his damage spread out, making him less bursty, and forcing him to stay in the wave for longer than currently. Further, by reducing the cooldown on E (such that you could conceivably stack it, early game before CDR) you give a synergy with the passive.

Stacking e is a cool idea, but also think it should spread to more targets then just one, and having its 'ping' gives it extra stacks to those near it. I'd have to do less damage then the current version but then with say 3 stacks it would do more.

R: Range reduced

Reducing the range on the R and tying its damage to the number of stacks on the target encourages premeditated plays rather than flash ults. Because the suppression is intact, people would obviously still use him as a stun-bot, though.

The point and click supression is the reason the rest of his kit has been nerfed so much. It has to go which means he needs cc elsewhere in his kit.

This keeps what I feel his identity is (Damage from DoTs and minions) while attempting to make him more interactive in lane. The suppression is probably still a big problem, but I haven't been able to come up with something better that isn't just a Brand conflagration or a Ryze double spell flux.

Its a nice idea but sadly unless you can fix the ult and cc issues it won't work...

Verandure1 votes

You can definitely keep more than one high-stack e going thanks to the reset mechanic of the q, it's just a lot harder to maintain (like juggling more than two Draven Axes, I would imagine)

Its a nice idea but sadly unless you can fix the ult and cc issues it won't work...

Agreed. I don't think the ult is part of his identity, but I can't think of anything else off the top of my head. I'm not against point-and-click CC (I think it's necessary with so much mobility in the game) but I don't think it really fits with everything else, here. I suppose you could keep the knockdown/grounding and change it to a stun, like you said in the OP, but it would need something else to feel satisfying.

Perhaps, in this case, spreading Malefic Visions to surrounding enemies while the channel is happening. That would take care of your comments on the w and e, as well. As an illustrative example: you build e stack on the wave before the teamfight. Cast w at five stacks and throw it onto the divers and cast R. Anybody that comes into the area around the ulted target would then also eat a 5 stack e (with some tick-time refresh).

I don't know, though. Obviously, I'm not a designer, so I can't say how well this would work. There's the case where you cast your e on a fully stacked target. What happens then? Do they eat a fraction of the damage as burst or does it eat your mana/cooldown and just refresh the debuff? I'm not sure which would be more fair.

DW Diana1 votes

{quoted}

You can definitely keep more than one high-stack e going thanks to the reset mechanic of the q, it's just a lot harder to maintain (like juggling more than two Draven Axes, I would imagine)

Agreed. I don't think the ult is part of his identity, but I can't think of anything else off the top of my head. I'm not against point-and-click CC (I think it's necessary with so much mobility in the game) but I don't think it really fits with everything else, here. I suppose you could keep the knockdown/grounding and change it to a stun, like you said in the OP, but it would need something else to feel satisfying.

Null Zone could stay, become his new ult with grounding. Stun could be added to your w?

Perhaps, in this case, spreading Malefic Visions to surrounding enemies while the channel is happening. That would take care of your comments on the w and e, as well. As an illustrative example: you build e stack on the wave before the teamfight. Cast w at five stacks and throw it onto the divers and cast R. Anybody that comes into the area around the ulted target would then also eat a 5 stack e (with some tick-time refresh).

Interesting. Think of it: your w blows up the stacks, spreading the same number of stacks to everyone in the area and stunning the target. It'd need a decent cd, but as it's damage is only from other other abilities, the cc wouldn't be op.

I don't know, though. Obviously, I'm not a designer, so I can't say how well this would work. There's the case where you cast your e on a fully stacked target. What happens then? Do they eat a fraction of the damage as burst or does it eat your mana/cooldown and just refresh the debuff? I'm not sure which would be more fair.

The latter I'd suppose, same as is currently happening.

Verandure1 votes

Then, if I'm interpreting this correctly, you'd want a kit like this:

Passive: reverted Q: silence duration increased W: Spreads Malefic Visions to nearby targets and stuns the primary target (maybe has a conditional stun duration based on the number of stacks). E: Can now stack up to 3 times. R: Null zone but grounds and damages people in a larger area.

If I got this right, it wouldn't have the DoT manipulation that I outlined, but centers more on the control aspects of the kit. The best case rotation would be building a 3 stack E in the wave and letting it bounce to a champ then a quick W, R, and Q to keep them from retaliating. The stun would let you place the R to keep them from flashing which lets you hit the Q right out of it, resetting the E stacks in the process.

Edit: I'm not sure I like this one. This seems to make him more of a control mage than what he's been up to this point. Further, wrapping all his damage into fully stacked E but not being able to control where it goes sounds kinda horrible.

In the lore, Malzahar is a prophet. His sermons (e) bring the void closer to Runeterra (old passive). He shows his victims the future, like he was shown, and they either convert or it kills them. He's a charismatic cult leader that can manipulate void energies (q) to bend the wills of the people.

The R (and new passive/old w) just don't really fit that thematic. It's just a Hell Rider reference that's stuck around and an ability for the sake of having an ability.

DW Diana1 votes

{quoted}

Then, if I'm interpreting this correctly, you'd want a kit like this:

Passive: reverted Q: silence duration increased W: Spreads Malefic Visions to nearby targets and stuns the primary target (maybe has a conditional stun duration based on the number of stacks). E: Can now stack up to 3 times. R: Null zone but grounds and damages people in a larger area.

If I got this right, it wouldn't have the DoT manipulation that I outlined, but centers more on the control aspects of the kit. The best case rotation would be building a 3 stack E in the wave and letting it bounce to a champ then a quick W, R, and Q to keep them from retaliating. The stun would let you place the R to keep them from flashing which lets you hit the Q right out of it, resetting the E stacks in the process.

Not at all. The removal of his ult suppression would allow more damage/power to be placed in the rest of his kit. His Q would do more damage and silence longer (not the 2 seconds it used to be but maybe 1.5), his E damage would be lowered by 25% but be able to stack 3 times. The W would be used in one of two ways:

  1. Poke: Your malefic visions are stacking up on the cast minions as the melee ones die, your opponent gets too close to one of them and you use your w on the caster minion to kill it and pass malefic visions onto your opponent (voidling would also now be beating on him)
  2. All in: E lands on opponent (whether by miss-positioning or by you targeting them) you then W to proc the stun (I would have the DAMAGE scale with the stacks, not the stun), ult, Q, and voidling going to work. His voildings would do more damage then the current trash, but against the set up would be important. You spawn it straightaway and it'll be little. You spawn it at the right time and with the above examples it could easily chuck them down (like yorick hitting E xD)

Edit: I'm not sure I like this one. This seems to make him more of a control mage than what he's been up to this point. Further, wrapping all his damage into fully stacked E but not being able to control where it goes sounds kinda horrible.

All his damage wouldn't be wrapped up in his E. His E would do damage yes, but his Q and voidling would also be stronger, and null zone does % hp damage making it strong against most champions. Not stacking E wouldn't be the end of the world, and you can never control where his e goes after the initial cast.

In the lore, Malzahar is a prophet. His sermons (e) bring the void closer to Runeterra (old passive). He shows his victims the future, like he was shown, and they either convert or it kills them. He's a charismatic cult leader that can manipulate void energies (q) to bend the wills of the people.

If you want an in depth look at my idea for malz, look at this post. The idea isn't perfect, and I've rethought several parts for balancing, but fits with his lore far better then the current version and would be viable with work. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/WAAgqGQE-suggestion-for-malzahar-rework

The R (and new passive/old w) just don't really fit that thematic. It's just a Hell Rider reference that's stuck around and an ability for the sake of having an ability.

On the contrary, his old W fit perfectly with his lore: He would open portals to the void. His Q and E are odd for his lore, and everyone knows his passive was just a quick fix for extra lane protection with no bearing on the lore or its viability (they nerfed it how many times?)

I think we can all agree malz needs work. Serious Work. If they don't have time then they can do a revert to either 2016 pre or post rework and he'd be far better off. If they have time to do a rework of his kit, then they need to say something and revert for the meantime.

Paroe1 votes

@thread

Malzahar was reworked using trumpian philosphy; Deny, Deflect, Project. They denied the original malzahar being a healthy champion in a unique niche. They deflected the negative criticisms coming from the existing playerbase about the rework. They projected their own vision at the expense of the existing playerbase by forcing him to be something he wasnt. To be fair though that entire mage rework was part of riots "change for the sake of change" policy. The fact malzahar has been a balance nightmare is proof that he was far healthier pre-rework than post. Him and swain were some of the least changed champions in league at the time.

Malzahars main perceived problem is "lack of interaction". Riot never fixed this, and instead of giving him the tools to trade they just nerfed his base stats, nerfed his damage, and forced him to ignore half his kit or get destroyed because AD > AP for trades. To fix that problem riot would need to do a TOTAL revert, including base stats, then scrap the old W and passive. Make enemies killed by malzahars E leave behind void traces, then make his W consume void traces to summon voidlings similar to how yorick works. His passive could then be a spell blade that applies a long lasting DoT which takes priority over his E.

DW Diana1 votes

{quoted}

@thread

Malzahar was reworked using trumpian philosphy; Deny, Deflect, Project. They denied the original malzahar being a healthy champion in a unique niche. They deflected the negative criticisms coming from the existing playerbase about the rework. They projected their own vision at the expense of the existing playerbase by forcing him to be something he wasnt. To be fair though that entire mage rework was part of riots "change for the sake of change" policy. The fact malzahar has been a balance nightmare is proof that he was far healthier pre-rework than post. Him and swain were some of the least changed champions in league at the time.

Malzahars main perceived problem is "lack of interaction". Riot never fixed this, and instead of giving him the tools to trade they just nerfed his base stats, nerfed his damage, and forced him to ignore half his kit or get destroyed because AD > AP for trades. To fix that problem riot would need to do a TOTAL revert, including base stats, then scrap the old W and passive. Make enemies killed by malzahars E leave behind void traces, then make his W consume void traces to summon voidlings similar to how yorick works.

Now THAT'S an idea! They would need to make his waveclear less reliant on voidlings but it could work.

His passive could then be a spell blade that applies a long lasting DoT which takes priority over his E.

How would this work? I'm intrigued by the concept but would like to know how you'd see this working?

Paroe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Loki1987,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EHmAEOfo,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2018-06-10T08:03:14.878+0000)

Now THAT'S an idea! They would need to make his waveclear less reliant on voidlings but it could work.

How would this work? I'm intrigued by the concept but would like to know how you'd see this working?

Malzhars old E was 320+0.8AP over a duration - with modern DoT quality of life making it deal damage every half a second, the ability would be malzahars waveclear plain and simple. Malzahars pre-rework voidlings were for taking objectives and harass. While pushing they were incidental and not core.

As for the spell blade passive... Malzahar uses a spell, and his next basic attack would deal extra AP damage (perhaps as high as 10-27+0.5ap?) over 8 seconds or so. It would also take priority over his E, meaning his voidlings would become part of his interaction tools.

KlydeFrog1 votes

Please i want to know why certain champs cant go mid please post . i didnt realize champs are banned by riot

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