Remove Conqueror

mc4life·May 14, 2019·3 votes·1,314 views

If ur annoyed to read skip below line.

Lets get reminded to at first, conqueror didn't even exist! It was added like 3 months or so idk, after runes reforged. It works just on everyone, true dmg and healing - 2 stronger elements in game, true dmg was limtied to very few champs and it should stay like that, runes acutally were balanced before conq even got relased, now everyone can do a lot of dmg just thanks to the conqueror, it doenst matter what are you building, even if u are tank you are gonna completly ignore enemy armor and magic resist by certain amount and heal the same amount. Not even life steal procs on true dmg or crit dmg, and this shit does very well, i use to play vayne last monht or soo a bit, and when i go botrk first item, i need just 1 wave to get full hp. Imagine that with conqueror. Its just too broken on everyone, there is not strategic play to make runes to their job, you just need to use your abilities no matter who you are, you dont need your midlane/adc, you can do pretty well yourself. League just isnt fun anymore, you can ban 1 champ but there are 5 more ready to pummel you with true dmg and sustain.

To put it short:

True dmg was limited to very few champs and their kit was partly focused on true dmg.
Too much healing and very easy to play with.
Broken af.
Makes other runes more less useless on most fighters/tanks.
Just not to play against, can't be countered, and 2% nerf won't do anything.

Some stuff don't need to be nerfed, they need to be destroyed, there is 14 other keystones that can be used, conqueror definitly isn't needed for game to work.

9 Comments

Spooks and NullMay 15, 20192 votes

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The thigh guyMay 15, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yes. It didn't exist for 3 months. And for those three months, bruisers were all garbage and forced to run PTA. Most runes didn't work on them. Tryndamere took Electrocute for fucks sake.

How come everyone else gets to have 4 runes they can run on their champions, while we finally get one rune, and now there's a problem. You can't just remove conqueror and expect things to be ok. These runes don't work on pretty much any of the champions who take Conqueror nowadays. "But PTA!" Yes. You can technically run PTA, just like how you can technically run Summon Aery on an ADC, it doesn't mean it's a good thing nor a thing that works.

I've voiced concerns on Conqueror myself, but acting like the rune itself is the problem rather than riot's laziness to actually give bruisers different keystones and instead just giving us one really strong one that forces champions who can't run it to be permafucked is just wrong.

Also. Lol @ everyone can run it. No they can't. There's only one ranged champion who runs it and then there's most of the bruisers. ADCs can't run it these days because they changed the stack falloff time. Mages don't benefit from the stacking since it happens to slowly. Tanks would much prefer Aftershock or grasp.

And "conqueror can't be countered", then you're just not playing against conqueror correctly. If you go for short trades and back out before the enemy stacks it fully, the rune will do literally nothing. Conqueror punishes you for being greedy and taking extended trades against champions who are supposed to win extended trades. The exception is a champion like Riven who can stack it instantly, in that case, sure the rune is powerful, but the problem is riven not the rune.

I'm so fucking sick of seeing people cry for the removal of the one keystone that I can use and not feel terrible about, meanwhile ADCs get three keystones designed just for them.

Bruisers have access to all keystones. :/ you can run pta, grasp, phase rush, aftershock, electrocute. All these work on bruisers. -.-

Spooks and NullMay 15, 20192 votes

[deleted]

The thigh guyMay 15, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yes because Olaf can activate Aftershock. Yes because Electrocute is so good on a champion who doesn't burst. Yes because phase rush is so useful for a melee champion. Yes because Grasp is so great in the mid and lategame.

These things can maybe function. But they're not good on these champions. You can technically run Grasp on an ADC, does that mean you should?

These runes aren't actual choices. They're not actually good picks. They're just things that can technically sorta maybe function on these champions. Why are my champions only allowed to have "maybe sortas" while ADCs have over 3 incredible rune choices, in addition to more depending on the champion?

Olaf with phase rush is fucking disgusting. Same with Darius. Garen takes grasp and does fine.

And grasp scales just fine. :/

Just because conquerer is op and bruisers are stupid as fuck doesn’t mean conquerer isn’t op. :/

And adcs have 3 tunes that work great? Um what? Pta is maybe on par with electrocute Lethal tempo requires a fuck ton of investment. And what’s the third? Fleet footwork? The rune thay was nerfed SPECIFICALLY on adcs?

Spooks and NullMay 15, 20191 votes

[deleted]

mc4lifeMay 15, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Olaf never runs Phase Rush seriously. Its a meme. Stats don't lie. Darius is the same, he runs it as a meme to pubstomp, its not a good choice.

Phase does nothing for you in lane, and good luck activating it in teamfights. The best you can use with phase on these champions is if they let you walk up to the enemy, then hit them three times, then maybe run away if theyre not paying attention. This is evident in the champions who actually use Phase Rush right now, Ryze and Vladimir use phase because it lets them kite melee champions really well and also because it lets them abuse parts of their kit. Vladimir uses it to reposition mid-pool, since his combo procs Phase and lets him run toward a squishy to use his empowered Q after his W ends. Ryze uses Phase in top lane to get away from melee fighters and tanks much easier, because its very easy for him to activate, being ranged into melee.

Garen takes Grasp BECAUSE CONQUEROR DOESNT STACK OFF HIS E AND HE HAS NO OTHER CHOICE, GAREN PLAYERS HAVE BEEN AT RIOTS THROAT TO CHANGE THIS FOR MONTHS NOW. It's become a meme in the garen community that Conqueror doesn't work on him. It's actually really sad honestly, since he'd love the rune if he could use it.

Grasp doesnt scale fine. It doesnt do reliable damage or effect later on, since it takes time to build up and the payoff is rarely worth it.

Woah but you get actual rune choices that work for you? You get PTA, Electrocute, Lethal, Fleet, still as viable runes that ADCs are taking? Lucians taking PTA, Ezreals taking Klepto, Ashe is taking Lethal Tempo, Many others are taking Fleet, Jhins taking electro as of recently, MF started taking Dark Harvest, Kalista started taking Hail of Blades... Looks pretty fuckin' diverse to me.

Your argument for Lethal Tempo is honestly really ironic to me, because its the same thing that you're saying makes these other runes good on bruisers. Its the same issue with Lethal on ADCs taking "a tonne of investment", not a lot of players are going to let you walk up to them and use your gap closer then stay in the fight for 3 seconds to activate grasp or for 3 autos to activate PTA. I dunno why its ok for ADCs to have a rune that is still usable but not viable because its "difficult to activate", but bruisers should all have "difficult to activate" runes instead of a rune they can actually use.

You're both proving my point and also proving that you don't understand how the meta in top lane currently is. Please don't comment on things you don't understand and act as if you understand them better than someone who lives it. The runes you're mentioning are so hard to activate on these champions. Go into a game and try and walk up to a Caitlyn as darius and activate phase rush. It isn't going to happen unless the enemy is a toaster.

I don't deny that Conqueror is OP, its power after this nerf remains to be seen, but it can't just be "removed" without compensation, because its literally all that some champions have. They should split the rune up into two runes that are focused on either true damage or sustain, basically specialized runes that do those two things better than conqueror does right now, but only one or the other.

How would ADCs feel if we just removed PTA? Basically you're just fucking over a whole bunch of them, but its ok because technically other runes work on them. That's basically how Bruisers feel with conqueror right now. Each of it's effects are so weak in comparison to the overall impact of other runes, but it has to satisfy every bruiser so its a grab bag full of effects.

EDIT: I know it sounds like i'm super angry or whatever. Not really trying to come off that way. I've had the conversation regarding these runes before, and it just gets old retyping the same idea. Hopefully this gives an idea of why these runes aren't useful. Idk. I can give a better explanation with reasoning if you'd like. This whole paragraph was kinda ranty, idk why. Maybe just a foul mood today, Apologies!

EDIT 2: For reference. There is actually a bruiser who doesn't run Conqueror. That's Camille, and camille has perfect synergy with PTA on her Q, an outstanding engage that lets her always get onto a target, an ult that keeps her target there for her to auto attack, and she can't stack conqueror effeciently. Its basically a match made in heaven. Kled and Renekton sometimes run PTA into squishy top laners to bully them harder. This is a choice that falls off later on, since its harder to activate PTA as a melee champion in a teamfight against a champion like a carry, where as Conqueror doesnt have to be stacked specifically on the enemy carry and can let you sustain longer in that fight. Conq's actually a pretty bad rune in lane, compared to many others, its a scaling rune if anything.

Some other bruisery champs who don't run Conqueror and why:

Illaoi: Her tentacle slams only generate +1 stack even if three hit a target at once, making stacking slower than most others, on a champion who already struggles to get into combat efficiently. ususally she runs klepto because she can proc Klepto stacks on her E's ghost which is hilariously powerful.

Nasus: Nasus actually is in sorta a similar boat to a champion like Garen, in that nothing works for him. His E doesn't stack conqueror, and conqueror isnt even a rune he'd want to take since he doesn't want the sustain or tank killing. He runs grasp to get some early trades. He used to run Klepto back before klepto had two charges, since it was much easier to proc, but the two charges klepto change made it really hard for any melee champion to use. Basically Nasus is just kinda using Grasp because nothing else really works on him right now.

Garen was always a strong champion, his passive makes him disguting in laning phase, and using black cleaver and other core items, he can rush in with q e w and cleave enemy's armor and decent heath, while surviving thanks to w, with this he nice chance for adc to do their shit, since he will absorb almost all dmg and cc.

Woah but you get actual rune choices that work for you? You get PTA, Electrocute, Lethal, Fleet, still as viable runes that ADCs are taking? Lucians taking PTA, Ezreals taking Klepto, Ashe is taking Lethal Tempo, Many others are taking Fleet, Jhins taking electro as of recently, MF started taking Dark Harvest, Kalista started taking Hail of Blades... Looks pretty fuckin' diverse to me. Lietrally, he just decribed 5 things that won't work.

PTA is not broken at all soo it doesn't need to be changed, Removing conqueror of course means to it will either be replaced, or other runes modified. But ok, maybe i went too far with removing it, but at least true dmg should be removed, healing is ok, everyone could use that, but true dmg is just sick and makes all champs with true dmg in their set inunique. It would be better if it gives maybe armor/magic pene, but not 100% of it...

Illaoi doesn't need conqueror, she pretty much sucks now, haven't seen her in game for a while.

Nothing works on nasus? I guess you aren't familiar with current nasus meta, you take grasp/ghost/black cleaver/trinity + bone plating and all the healing runes, and all u need to do is stand under tower and stack,no matter how much poked you are you won't die beacuse your passive heal is abnormal, especially with bonus runes. And if u want to start fighting, you need to use w/ghost/r and you will kill the target, beacuse you have 80% slow for 5seconds, and have movespeed boost from ghost/black cleaver, which makes suer your target will need 3 flashes, soo far i haven't found ANYTHING that can escape nasus.

Camille is very good with conqueror, since she can trade very well with it and do some bonus dmg, especially when she uses r, you are sure for not to escape, she also has 150 hp adaptive shield at lvl 1 soo u can't even kill her at start. But ye, she doesn;t really need conqueror, but still its very broken on her.

EDIT: I know it sounds like i'm super angry or whatever. Not really trying to come off that way. I've had the conversation regarding these runes before, and it just gets old retyping the same idea. Hopefully this gives an idea of why these runes aren't useful. Idk. I can give a better explanation with reasoning if you'd like. This whole paragraph was kinda ranty, idk why. Maybe just a foul mood today, Apologies!

Its all kay, we all are a bit unintentionally means sometimes ;)

mc4lifeMay 15, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wHv4AkEr,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-15T03:42:30.677+0000)

Olaf with phase rush is fucking disgusting. Same with Darius. Garen takes grasp and does fine.

And grasp scales just fine. :/

Just because conquerer is op and bruisers are stupid as fuck doesn’t mean conquerer isn’t op. :/

And adcs have 3 tunes that work great? Um what? Pta is maybe on par with electrocute Lethal tempo requires a fuck ton of investment. And what’s the third? Fleet footwork? The rune thay was nerfed SPECIFICALLY on adcs?

Lethal tempo isn't something you should take wihtout attack speed buff on your team, other runes will work better in early game. Don;t take this as insult, but i assume you are currently in low elo and yoour support is usally lee sin/pyke. But if you have lulu, or support that took ardent's censer you can make tempo very useful after getting 1st item.

Fleetwork isn't purely made for adcs's, once again it gives movespeed buff, as well as it helps you recover after a poke, as well as helps you get advantage in one.

mc4lifeMay 15, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yes because Olaf can activate Aftershock. Yes because Electrocute is so good on a champion who doesn't burst. Yes because phase rush is so useful for a melee champion. Yes because Grasp is so great in the mid and lategame.

These things can maybe function. But they're not good on these champions. You can technically run Grasp on an ADC, does that mean you should?

These runes aren't actual choices. They're not actually good picks. They're just things that can technically sorta maybe function on these champions. Why are my champions only allowed to have "maybe sortas" while ADCs have over 3 incredible rune choices, in addition to more depending on the champion?

Olaf can use Pta in 1v1 very nicely which gives him lane advantage Only champions without ANY burst are supports(even some of them have tho). If a champion doesn't have burst that mean he has poke or he is focused on auto attacks, for poke u can use comet/aery, and for autoattacks you can use, PTA/fleetwork(Which is very good for surviving/dodging, it doesn't just heal, and also it can be powered with stormrazor whcih makes is very good)

Phase rush IS useful for melles of course, there are melle champions that can inflict sick dmg if they can get their hands on you, which by phase rush is useful.

Grasp is more of support for laning phase, if he is not good in late that just means he could use a buff.

All in all you gave your best to find 4-5 worst case scenarios, while i can give you over a hundred good case scenarios.

mc4lifeMay 15, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yes. It didn't exist for 3 months. And for those three months, bruisers were all garbage and forced to run PTA. Most runes didn't work on them. Tryndamere took Electrocute for fucks sake.

How come everyone else gets to have 4 runes they can run on their champions, while we finally get one rune, and now there's a problem. You can't just remove conqueror and expect things to be ok. These runes don't work on pretty much any of the champions who take Conqueror nowadays. "But PTA!" Yes. You can technically run PTA, just like how you can technically run Summon Aery on an ADC, it doesn't mean it's a good thing nor a thing that works.

I've voiced concerns on Conqueror myself, but acting like the rune itself is the problem rather than riot's laziness to actually give bruisers different keystones and instead just giving us one really strong one that forces champions who can't run it to be permafucked is just wrong.

Also. Lol @ everyone can run it. No they can't. There's only one ranged champion who runs it and then there's most of the bruisers. ADCs can't run it these days because they changed the stack falloff time. Mages don't benefit from the stacking since it happens to slowly. Tanks would much prefer Aftershock or grasp.

And "conqueror can't be countered", then you're just not playing against conqueror correctly. If you go for short trades and back out before the enemy stacks it fully, the rune will do literally nothing. Conqueror punishes you for being greedy and taking extended trades against champions who are supposed to win extended trades. Conqueror only stacks verse champions... So if you're letting someone freely stack Conqueror on you and just get it activated... I dunno what to tell you other than maybe Conqueror isn't the problem.

The exception is a champion like Riven who can stack it instantly, in that case, sure the rune is powerful, but the problem is riven not the rune.

"Two strong things" yes. It turns out adding effects to a champion is strong. Every rune in this game is adding an additional effect that champions didn't have before. Fleet gives you free sustain, Electrocute gives you free burst damage, Comet gives you free poke, Aery gives you free poke and a free shield for your team, Predator makes your ganks and roams stronger, Aftershock is a 2.5 second Kayle Ult, Guardian is a free shield. This isn't a problem unique to conqueror, it's just that Conqueror gets demonized because it's the only rune that these champions can feel good about picking, while other lanes get to comfortably change between 3 or even 4 keystone's that all work on them.

I'm so fucking sick of seeing people cry for the removal of the one keystone that I can use and not feel terrible about, meanwhile ADCs get three keystones designed just for them. Before Conqueror gets removed, I better damn well have 2 runes made for me, otherwise you're just deleting the bruiser class and saying they don't get to have a keystone because you're upset that you can't kill Jax at melee range as a squishy adc.

Consider that Conqueror isn't making "other runes more less useless" on fighters, but that those other runes were useless to begin with. Saying it makes other runes useless on tanks is just a lie. There's not a single pure tank who runs Conqueror right now.

First of all, no, brusiers never have been garbage, you know there was time wihtout this kind of runes right? brusiers were very good and back then as well with the time before conqueror.

Trynda is very hard to be useful in teamfights, since all you need is a stun/slow. He is a splitpusher, and triump/legacy for spd and last stand, you pretty much already have disgusting damage, conqueror just makes it broken. And last thing we need is broken brusiers Irelia