Absolutely Zero Reason to pick Rengar over Kha Zix

WitchQueen Annie··6 votes·11,177 views

Rengar's one shot damage would need to be A LOT (a lot lot) higher than Kha Zix to be a non-troll pick.

Kha Zix is just better in absolutely every single way possible in practice.

...

Pre-6... Kha Zix has mediocre to strong Ganks/Counter Ganks in all lanes. His mobility is completely unrestricted and he can jump strike from anywhere.

Pre-6... Rengar has stronger burst combo ON PAPER. However, his enemies have to be stupid enough to go near bushes for him to do anything. He has to gamble on the enemy not understanding Rengar's kit. His Countergank/Gank is sub-par because his mobility is entirely restricted to bushes.

...

Pre-6... Assuming enemy overextends and Kha Zix walks into lane from behind. Enemy Laner: "OMG I AM FUCKED. He's gonna auto-Q-auto me, immediate Electrocute... and if I flash away he'll jump after me and repeat until I'm dead or super low."

Pre-6... Ennemy overextends and Rengar walks into lane from behind. Enemy Laner: "What the fuck are you gonna do bro? Throw a Bola at me? I'm going to walk away from you and away from bushes so you can't jump after me."

This lack of mobility on Rengar translates into another important weakness. If you're looking to clean up and pick up kills (snipe off wounded enemies) in the early game... Kha has a higher probability of picking these up. Rengar's gotta walk, he's basically as effective as a Master Yi when it comes to early pickings.

...

Kha Zix pre and post 6 can easily invade the enemy jungle with near impunity. His on-demand jump and invisibility means he can get away with sustained guerrilla warfare/camp stealing/assassination in the enemy jungle.

Rengar? Nope, not really. Its too risky. If he's cornered, he has ZERO escape. Dead cat. You dun goofed. Unless you're a Rengar one trick, ward over some wall to see a camp and then jump from some strange bush at the edge of the range to escape 2 enemies but come on...

...

Post 6.

Again, on paper Rengar has a ton of damage but a lot of it is gated behind his Bone Necklace mechanic. Since he has a hard time getting kills pre-6 (against competent players who understand his kit), its a very strange design.

Now let's say we assume he somehow picked up 1-2 trophies. Now he can just Invis and then 1 shot ennemies with 1 or 2 necklaces right? Again, it sounds great on paper but in practice you have no way of escaping after you've 1 shotted the dude. There is no outplay/escape potential (its very limited even if it exists). In practice, with the same play style a Rengar is going to die A LOT MORE than a Kha because he's just got no escapes (either that the Rengar will just be too safe and not go in). This means that a lot of kills Rengar picks up (if he does) will mean less for his team because he's giving away gold and exp too every time he dies.

Meanwhile, Kha has way too much outplay, mobility, and escape capability. In the hands of a skilled player, he does SO MUCH MORE than Rengar. And while his 1 shot is less powerful, in practice, because he's more likely to pick off kills pre-6 (so he's in a stronger place at this point in the game) his 1 shot is often close to equal to the Rengar who is gated by his Necklace and a super clunky early.

The biggest deal though is that a skilled Kha is going to have a very low death rate while having a great KDA. The enemy's not getting tons of gold/exp from killing him. Meanwhile, any decent team will kill Rengar when he goes in (best case scenario is the Rengar kills 2 people before himself dying).

...

TLDR

Rengar needs A LOT MORE burst if he's going to be a viable pick because Kha is just flat out better.

His pre-6 is awful, he's got no escape when he does go in. If you're going to power farm to 6 and then delete 1-2 enemies before dying every time your R is up again there is no reason to pick Rengar. Master Yi is WAY BETTER at doing that.

61 Comments

Eedat5 votes

Absolutely Zero Reason to pick Rengar over Kha Zix

Sure there is. What if Kha is banned or picked by the enemy team first? Hmmmmmm?

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

Xin Zhao (for number one strongest early Ganks against noobs).... absolutely zero counterplay if the enemy is Gankable. He wins most 2 vs 2s even if the other JG shows up.

Or if you want to power farm until 6 and adopt a Rengar yolo dive approach while sometimes invading... Master Yi.

They're both better.

Dasdi963 votes

You all complain about. Khazix going into melee range and attempting to 1 shot. Meanwhile Twitch does the same thing except from 850 range so you can't even fight back.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

To be fair Twitch seems over-nerfed at the moment.

I couldn't make him work at his "OP" patches but now he's just really really bad

Glory973 votes

Rengar is not weak. Kha zix is just way too strong. He has a over 50% banrate. Picking out one champion and comparing this champion with most broken champion in the game to justify buffs is not how balancing works.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

well let's just compare him to Master Yi then.

Master Yi can power farm to level 6 relatively efficiently (he has strong clears, just like Rengar). He's considered to have no play making ability pre-6 against competent opponents (just like Rengar pre-6). However, after 6 Master Yi can pretty consistently cut down at least 2 opponents by hitting R.

Meanwhile, Rengar after 6 has a kit that can only kill 1 target.

If you're good at Rengar you MIGHT be able to calculate a bit better and also get 2 targets per battle situationally. However, with the way Master Yi's Highlander is designed (with resets) and with the way Rengar's abilities are designed, Yi will more often kill 2+ targets than Rengar.

So again, why play Rengar?

Isn't he basically an inferior Master Yi?

Harden Stepback2 votes

Thread is the truth

Khristophoros1 votes

Isn't Rengar more of a bruiser/assassin hybrid? Kha can't get away with building tanky the way Rengar can.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

no one on probuilds buys any armor on him for the first half of the game ever besides a GA after you completed your core.

The build is virtually identical to Kha's (except maybe you add a Hydra because of its synergy with the 1 shot). He's built glass cannon right?

If anything, Kha seems more like a "fighter" because he can jump all over the place/continuously outplay and generally stay in a fight longer.

Nicklam02701 votes

{quoted}

Isn't Rengar more of a bruiser/assassin hybrid? Kha can't get away with building tanky the way Rengar can.

That is true, not to mention the fact that rengar counters bursty champions, because his healing ability is like a ekko's ult

Red Wreckage1 votes

As long as either of them are viable picks...I'm happy.

Don't ask for kha'zix nerfs cause I'm sure as hell they will not buff Rengar at all....leaving both of them in the trash tier category

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

the thing is... unless/until Rengar gets a better pre-6 (that's not tied to cheesing through bushes), why would I pick him over Master Yi.

Against competent enemies I'm going to have to wait until 6 to make the big plays anyways. Yi has way better hyper carry potential. Rengar has to work so hard even post-6 to kill more than 1 target in a real team fight before dying. Meanwhile 3 item Yi... hack hack hack (dodge) hack hack....

Red Wreckage1 votes

I'm guessing its a thing called "riot being held hostage by huge swarm of bronzies/silvers"

If Rengar starts doing damage, this board will be flooded by endless crying of low elo lux players about how broken/OP rengar is, how his one shots are toxin and unhealty etc. etc.

So yeah....I doubt this champ will ever be viable. fking j4/wukong one shot better than rengar.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

but how can he be OP when Master Yi does the same thing except he can WAY MORE easily kill 2+ people every team fight?

no matter how much they up his 1 shot, if his early game is junk (and you're not going to make big plays until 6), he's always going to be an inferior Master Yi.

Its low elo anyways, you don't need invisibility to flank and engage, Yi's Highlander is more than enough

no to toxic1 votes

There is one, you can be a degenerate furry .

Hügö1 votes

The problem with Rengar is still that he has absolutly no early game. Dieing to a pre 6 rengar gank could be considered trolling as he literalyl needs to just walk to you like a lane minion (maybe there is the rare case that you are near a bush but the chance is so small that you can ignore it). And when riot just continous to buff his damage he will just be to strong mid an late and will still have a shit early.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

I mean... MAYBE it makes sense if Rengar was SUPPOSED to be the underdog. Kind of a challenge anti-hero type character.

You know?

Like Kha is SUPPOSED to be better since he's the antagonist? Kind of like a final boss unlock. You have to play through the whole campaign as Rengar first?

Teridax681 votes

I, for one, would rather not see Rengar buffed back into his previous toxic state just to keep up with a champion that is currently notoriously oppressive. Rengo's revert was excellent and managed to make him significantly more fun for both his players and his opponents, in part precisely because it avoided making him too good at one-shotting. By contrast, Kha is currently in this unpleasant area of balance and design where he can kill his opponents in a fraction of a second from invisibility. Because of this, I'd rather see Kha get changed to no longer have so much upfront burst, and therefore less one-shot potential, than have Rengar turn back into a toxic kitty.

Snowman Arc1 votes

Rengar has a slightly stronger teamfight presence though. Popping ult makes the enemy team fear you, to the point that he makes a good sieging or baron taking threat. He also has more tankiness off his W and has potential CC on his E.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

More like his Ult alerts the team that you are coming (another strange design decision, Kha Zix has no warning but Rengar has) though...

And yes it scares them but it gives them time to prep too.

Also, would you rather frighten the enemy team into thinking you can kill 2 of them (Rengar) or actually have the capability to strike and immediately kill 2 of them and get out (Kha Zix)?

Snowman Arc1 votes

Well, Rengar can stealth on demand anywhere if he has his R and is useful in base sieges for example. Khazix can't do that. I agree Kha is way overtuned though and much more useful right now, because the only strong advantage (damage) Rengar had over him is now almost gone.

Wild Geese1 votes

The problem with Rengo is he's not an assassin, he's the world's most glass cannon diver. (By a long shot!!). Two options really;

  1. Give him a way to get out
  2. Give him some stats or tools to survive.

Personally I lean at option 2. Rengo certainly looks the part. He should at least require some effort to kill.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

so then buff his W so it can actually tank?

Interestingly enough, I think that was what they tried to do after the "Assassin" rework. I like the idea too.

T4underbolt1 votes

Rengar is able to nearly oneshot a squishy after going 0/7 and building only warrior and titanic hydra (yes. A tank item. not dmg item). Tell me more about how rengar is bad and needs to have more dmg than kha when kha is already retardly overpowered.

KlydeFrog1 votes

Kha has a reset on jump . Or why choose either of those 2 over noct

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

Nocturne has close to close to no playmaking capability before 6.

If you're going to play Nocturne you're better off playing Master Yi. He's the best and most reliable of the level 6 power farmers in my view.

You don't need a longer strike range or invisibility because Highlander's DPS OP.

KlydeFrog1 votes

cc spell shield long range ult that does a lot of damage.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

would you rather have a spell shield or the ability to cut down at least 2 enemies every team fight?

Daizumi1 votes

While I agree with some of your points on paper, in my personal opinion, Rengar gives a more fun and fufilling experience. When I'm fed on kha zix sure it can be fun to go invis and find some unexpecting squishes and get easy kills, but when I'm fed on Rengar... I'm a apex predator. Nothing feels better than chasing down the enemy adc and one shotting them, or watching the enemy team cower in fear together while my ult is up. Plus unlike kha I can go Crit or heavy pen or even AP for luls.

TLDR: rengar to me gives a more enjoyable experience when I'm fed verses Kha but that's my personal opinion.

TempName748141 votes

being better with rengar?

Nyarlathοtep

More or less what khristophoros said. Rengar is more of an fighter than an assassin. Way too stupid to compare 2 different champs that are in different categories.

Khristophoros1 votes

{quoted}

More or less what khristophoros said. Rengar is more of an fighter than an assassin. Way too stupid to compare 2 different champs that are in different categories.

He probably leans more assassin than fighter considering he can instantly kill squishies out of his ult

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

He's not a fighter.

His kit is all about 1 shot diving targets right?

There's nothing in his kit that synergizes with him building tanky. He's not like Xin Zhao (Xin Zhao I would see as a fighter/diver).

The POTENTIAL (but rarely done because its so situational) of 1-shotting someone without Ult from a bush and then Ulting away invisible to kill another player suggests a more assassin play style. At least on paper, in practice its SO clunky.

There's nothing in his kit that enables him to stay in a prolonged fight (unlike Xin who has a defensive Ult). His W is more of an offensive than defensive ability cause its been so nerfed.

Nyarlathοtep

Oneshotting and then staying in the fight. Thats not an assassin. Riot has said that mobile champs, that can go in and out on will are assassins.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

Then why was he part of the “assassin” rework officially if not an assassin himself?

He can technically get in and out it’s just really situational. If he used R to go all in then he has escape. But if he camps a bush post 6... launches a normal jump combo to 1 shot and then escapes with r to re-engage or run he starts playing like an assaasin. Problem is, his current kit is too clunky to allow for this sort of situational outplay more than once on average per game

Nyarlathοtep

Hey dont ask me ask riot. Besides, diana is the same as rengar. Assassin burst, but no real way to get out.

Also, which rengar uses his ulti to disengage after a kill? I mean i do have seen it to run away, but not after a kill. Even the most fed ones use it to kill and then die, or flash away. Ive never seen a single rengar to use his ulti like that. Its not made to disengage since its camouflaged .

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

Rengar plays more like diver than a fighter. He "dives" (in the sense that he's trying to 1 shot a target with a combo) with no easy way to get out of the fight.

Hence he should be in the same group as Xin Zhao, Renekton, and Shyvanna. They go in to try and 1-2 shot a target and then fight for a few more seconds and die unless their team engaged perfectly. With good calculation maybe they take 2 people but there's nothing in the kit that allows for easy escape.

A "fighter" would be more like a Riven or a Yasuo with their shields and extended mobility. They have "1 shot" combos too but they aren't on demand like Rengar's with a single R ready.

Nyarlathοtep

You do know that a diver is a subclass of fighter. Fighters have two subclasses. Juggies and divers.

Yasuo and riven are Skirmishers, a subclass of slayers.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

wow if this was a quiz that's at least 25 points tricked from my score...

$%#^&%$^@%$&^#%^$@

MrHaZeYo1 votes

It's weird you ask that, because while he is meant to be a assassin (unlike Diana who is meant to the a AP Bruiser), if you watch the Pro games after the Assassin rework, Rengo would get picked and then build Warrior, BC, tank. They played him like a Diver, which honestly he kind of is. He is the only true "assassin" without a escape. Fizz, Ekko, Ahri (who is more of a mage), Eve, LB, Zed, Talon, Yas (although he's more of a duelist), Kass, Yi (although it's simply a massive MS/Slow immune, it still counts), Nid, Kha and Akali. only Shaco, Noc, and Rengo don't have pure get aways, although Shaco can use his Q and somewhat is Ult, but most usually engage with their Qs on. Noc and Rengo are more so Divers then Assassins, they both have 1 shot potential but then they die because they're squishy AF unless the build like Divers.

In retrospect, Fiora, Cam, Renek, and Riven can all dive in and survive to dive back out. Vi and Xin can one shot someone as bruisers but can survive longer based on the fact they build like Divers, similar with Diana and Wu.

The problem with Rengo is they want him to be a assassin with a mostly bruiser kit, if he had a different Ult he would be a Diver (well really he would be useless but I'd Imagine his ult would be different to make him a diver. Noc is the same way.

Twitch, Teemo, Vayne and Trist are all considered assassin marksman, but Teemo and Twitch have no escapes (Twitch like Shaco generally engages with Qs) Trist and Vayne are very much assassins, except there burst potential early and mid isn't (on average) has high as the actual assassins, they're made to be late game assassins.

Have you tried building Rengo like I said eariler? BC/Warrior/Brusier- tank, you rely off the bone necklace for bonus AD but it allows you to stay alive in fights, then again you won't 1 shot, you'll still kill em, just not as fast.

Glass Cannon Rengo is best when going on the prowl after a team fight as broken out and then flanking the backline while the fight ensues, so he can delete the Carry(ies) and make a decision on whether he needs to bail or move up to the fight from the enemy backline. This could be said about any Assassin outside of the marksman ones and Ahri though. Problem is, the higher you climb the smarter the supports get, they don't just leave their AD and Mage while the Assassin is not shown on the map. Then most Mages also either have good CC or Peel mechanics of their own to help themselves and their AD standing around them.

So TLDR - Rengo and Noc need VGUs

Dusk Mane Rengar1 votes

Rengar is an assassin.

Nyarlathοtep

No he isnt.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

With current tuning, he's more like a glass cannon diver with slight fighter-like secondary attributes (only because of his W and low Q cool downs).

Somehow officially classified as an Assassin though.

Dusk Mane Rengar1 votes

Rengar is an assassin there is no argument here.

Nyarlathοtep

Lol by this logic both diana and irelia are assassins too.

Dusk Mane Rengar1 votes

??

Rengar has an escape skill.

Diana and Irelia doesnt

Rengar is an assassin, play Rengar before talking tyvm.

Nyarlathοtep

Oh really. I Assume you are talking about his w. Which is not.

Dusk Mane Rengar1 votes

?

Its an escape skill, again play one game before even talking lol

Nyarlathοtep

By this awesome logic you have there, then olaf and alistar are assassins too AND both have an escape tool. Cool. The more you know.

Dusk Mane Rengar1 votes

wtf happens with you???

Neither alistar or olaf have the damage of an assassin or his mobility.

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