Zed overrated?

WitchQueen Annie··50 votes·3,835 views

Now Zed is always banned in my ranked games but I don't understand why he's considered so overpowered.

There seems to be this common belief that Zed is a very strong laner. Yet when you look at the most common picks in Mid you find that most of them can actually go even with Zed while many actually counter him very hard. His laning is nowhere near as strong as it is made out to be.

Also, Zed can be easily counter-picked not just by a mid lane pick (like Fizz or Yasuo) but he can also be counter-picked by a FREAKING SUPPORT. What other decent mid-laner can get hard-countered by a FREAKING SUPPORT?! Seriously, try playing a Zed when they have a good Zilean or a good Lulu on their team who has some brains and goes ... "Okay, Zed is about 50% of the damage from their team so I'm just going to hold my OP shields/revives for my carries when he Ults."

Zed is a HUGE ticking time bomb. Even if you destroy the other laner and get a few good roams and push a few towers... chances are that by the time it goes into a long game (and it almost always does because people in Solo Q just keep throwing), Zed will fall off. Zed becomes this very powerful (only at 1 vs 1) but RIDICULOUSLY FRAGILE assassin who can't afford to make a single misplay or else he throws the whole game. And for what? Just to kill 1 carry and probably die doing it? Even if he escapes... so what? He's unlikely to have the health to do anything after.

What utility does he bring at that point in the game compared to an AOE caster like Vladimir (who can nuke a whole team) or a Lux/Ahri (who can create huge play-making opportunities for the team). Whenever a team picks a Zed, they are in huge danger of creating a late game where they simply cannot team fight. And if they cannot team fight and they can't rely on their team mates not to throw while splitting... they will definitely lose.

And while yes, Zed is a strong split pusher, there just seems to be too many towers to push down. It takes too damn long. And in Solo Q when left with 4 people the team is just going to throw over and over and your lead will be squandered. Even if you try to TF as Zed, its likely to turn out bad simply because you can't afford to make a single mistake.

Yes Zed has a ton of damage (on paper) but because of the cool downs you can only 1 vs 1 unless your team creates oppertunities for you by wounding other key targets.... its also ridiculously risky because you have to get up close to get kills.

The other problem is that if the enemy ADC is smart, they are going to buy a Bloodthirster and a GA, and just stand in the middle of their whole team next to a Support who counters you (ex Zilean or Lulu). Then good luck ever assassinating them. You can't get the Mid Laner either because guess what? He has a Zhonya. So then what do you do?

In my opinion, I think Zed is highly overrated. A skilled Vladimir/Lux/Ahri is way more dangerous than a Zed yet Zed's ban rate is grossly disproportionate to his actual likelihood to carry.

Thoughts?

104 Comments

Seenan29 votes

He's not freelo whatsoever, unless you're Faker of Bjergsen...But laning against him is annoying for pretty much anyone. His ban rate only skyrocketed when they made QSS not affect his ult anymore.

WitchQueen Annie3 votes

But honestly though, I think a Yasuo and a Fizz are far more annoying to deal with.

Also, the QSS nerf is hugely blown out of proportion. Unlike Akali or Talon, Zed's Ult isn't an insta-kill and can't usually 100-0 people in a team fight scenario. There's so many rooms for error (in shooting your skills) and there are so many variables at play and opportunities for the target to escape regardless (ex suddenly flashing away after R-ed in, he's probably already used his W or will fail to respond quickly enough). I can't tell you how many times I've seen Zed Ult in... launch a few attacks the Carry, and then either die before he manages to make a kill or else be forced to R back because of how much Flak he's taking.

Like there are ACTUAL assassins who can easily 100-0 people (LB and Fizz for example); Zed's Ult has always been loaded with counterplay.

Knoyle5 votes

I feel like you are being a bit too biased towards Zed. Are there other annoying mid laners? of course. However the only one who even compares to zed is leblanc as far as escape potential goes. However here is the thing about Leblance and Fizz.

They go oom. Now I know that doesn't sound like a fair thing to bring up for some but It makes a big difference. Fizz only escape is linked to his main burst/waveclear which is also very costly early and a bad idea to spam. He will go oom FAST in lane. Leblanc primary waveclear is also her only real poke and all in. Goes oom relatively fast.

Zed Can repeat his combo albeit not relatively frequently. However the fact is he does not suffer from mana sustain issues. This allows him to be a more consistent bully and unlike fizz he does have ranged poke meaning ranged mid laners are not necessarily in a good trading spot against him.

Zed honestly needs to go die in a fire is really unfun and annoying to see in games.

Guy Fox Teemo3 votes

Being annoying to play against is incredibly subjective

Dengeden1 votes

His banrate did not skyrocket because of that... ADCs did not buy that item ever.

sir d wreck17 votes

Um, at the start of and going into this season Mercurial Scimitar was a staple buy on almost every adc until they nerfed it.

Dengeden2 votes

I wish. They always bought BT, even in the pro scene. His banrate rose because the entire community wanted to circlejerk him into being the next Kassadin.

Dessem10 votes

ADCs actually bought it reasonably often to cleanse Zed's ult. They don't in the pro-scene because they have allies to rely on which is often better, but soloQ I've seen plenty of people build it.

Especially Mercurial at the start of this season, since it was a 75 AD lifesteal item with an ace active.

Dengeden1 votes

Keyword "often", as in "not always". Watch any Zed or Fizz montage before the QSS changes, I guarantee at least one dead ADC will have a different LS item.

sir d wreck4 votes

The whole reason Merc Scimitar was nerfed a little while back (and this was written on the patch notes) was that it was supposed to be a situational buy, not an item that is a must buy every game - and on top of it fighters were starting to buy QSS too because it was that good. So thus, it was nerfed.

Dessem2 votes

Really hard to argue with a 75 AD item that gives you a Break Out Of CC card on top of some lifesteal for survivability and magic resistance.

Poske1 votes

UM let me raphrase what he said

NO GOOD PLAYER BUILT SHIMITAR TO COUNTER ZED? GET IT?

Hinagiku335 votes

It's true that Zed isn't freelo.

But I banned him constantly because he tilts the hell out of my teammates. Just having a Zed on the enemy team usually puts me at a disadvantage because one or two players on my team tilt like crazy and psyche themselves out before the game even starts.

If I don't absolutely need that ban slot on something genuinely OP, then I'd use it on Zed every time just to not deal with him and the frustration he brings.

Jet Sett9 votes

Because in most cases he can out farm you and then ult you under tower at 6 for a kill if you're anything squishy, which is what most mids are. Therefore, fuck Zed.

KVbqbFsC8e8 votes

{quoted}

Because in most cases he can out farm you and then ult you under tower at 6 for a kill if you're anything squishy, which is what most mids are. Therefore, fuck Zed.

Thats one of the biggest problems with him. You can't deny him CS because he can farm safely and reliably with his 900 range shuriken.

Saianna6 votes

Now Zed is always banned in my ranked games but I don't understand why he's considered so overpowered.

I'll be honest, I stopped reading after this sentence. It's almost 11 AM and i haven't slept yet.. So.. sorry I am certain your whole thread makes some important points, which I'll obviously miss. So, yeah.. Sorry for that aswell :(

I will do try to explain why I believe Zed is (way) too strong 1 sentence:

If an assassin can go full retard kamikaze 1v5 and get a kill, then die or run, then he definitely is too strong.

Or in depth explanation:

You might say "okay, Zed killed an ADC, but he died in the process, so it evens out". Not really. Zed scales so god damn better with AD than any ADC or even Riven (< joke), simply because slapstick free power of 20-25% bonus AD passive in his normal ability. in late game you could see glass cannon Zeds with 700+ AD. But that's simply an overkill. 400 AD is enough to rip apart any ADC, even with 1 or 2 defensive items.

Then we have next thing. Mobility. Or even "better", how unpredictable it can be. Zed can be in 3 (4 with flash) spots insantly. In skillshot era with slow projectiles and little target-CC, it's close to impossible to kill Zed before he will finish his keyboard faceroll. Yes yes, you could use AOE CC ultimate (Amumu/Sejuani). But using your best teamfight CC against one target, even if it'll kills him.. You are still giving a huge weakness to rest of enemy team.

Oh there's also commitment to the "cause". Evelynn has to go balls deep. Akali aswell. And so are most of assassins. If they want to get a kill, they have to stick to a target. Zed? Nope. R -> shurikens -> AA and he can run away, because that will definitely do the trick.** I'm not sure** , but I heard Riot made his ultimate uncleansable. Well even if you cleanse it right away, you'll be in a state that mild fart would kill you making you back off and heal or simply run. Yes ADC survived, but he's unusuable for a fight.

EDIT: Adding 1 more point to my list. Farming. Mid mages have to use mana. Use too much and you are dry. Try to poke and you can't farm. Get too close and you get harrassed. In Zeds case he has long range attack which happen to be good at both farming and harrassing at the same time. Costs energy which regens like mad, almost every AD item comes with lifesteal, because Riot wanted more AD meta in ADC meta than we used to have since ever, so he can regen his HP. He has escape on pretty long CD but still enough to run back. And as a cherry on top of that huge mountain of a cake he has one of the easiest mob last hitting thanks to his passive. In other words enever others have to choose 1 option (poke or farm. Farm or gank. Go back to regen vs try to farm under turret with no mana), Zed has all of them mashed in 1 and always active.

And lastly: personal hate. I am biased. I simply dislike Zed. I watched how Riot relentlessly nerfed every champion for just tiny shits. "Balancing Pebbles" like Teemo. Teemo was nerfed because Liandrys torment made him deal I'm not sure.. 5-10% more damage on his mushrooms lategame. That's why he lost 0.3 ap ratio on R. But Lee or Riven or Zed? They were like immortal trio of nerf-immune shit viruses for goddamn super long time (lee even got himself a fking buff with his ultimate, while Zed had ATTACK SPEED nerf and low on top of that, while Riven was unbalanced for goddamn year before they changed her a bit.. Now they even gonna buff her).

I really hope I explained why I believe Zed should be removed from the LoL along with his creator.

Guy Fox Teemo2 votes

That's an incredibly narrow minded statement and not at ALL a good point. Especially when that's a rare occurrence and you're almost certainly going to die with the kill or die without one because you got instantly cc'd to death because Zeds ultimate is predictable

Requiemsfire2 votes

hmmmmmm more like he'd E+Q and then R out in less than a second unless the CC you have is point and click which not many champions have anymore you probably won't catch Zed.

But loook man if you disagree that's fine but remember Zed is the go to pick for every LCS team looking for an assassin where as you would hardly see champions like Talon Khazix Rengar Akali Kassadin and there's a reason why you would pick Zed over these.

Guy Fox Teemo1 votes

LOOOOOOL, ZED PICKED OVER RENGAR KHA OR KASSADIN????

Are you joking? Those 3 champions are played waaaaaaaay more then Zed and with way bigger success. The last time Zed was viable in in LCS was in Season 4. He hasn't been a good pick since, and that times he has been picked now have utterly failed.

Saianna1 votes

That is.. If you have CC fast enough to actually catch him. Oh and there's always this chance of Zed initiating with shadow, and then ultimating while you wasted CC.

I gotta say arguments "CC anything and it's easy" are simply bad. Because if team has no CC, or ineffective CC then what? Should they lose just cause of that? Try to skillshot CC Master Yi with 600 MS while he alpha strikes. Sure, if you get him, then he's dead.. but if you won';t then "GG team, report support and jungle"

PermabannedGaren2 votes

{quoted}

That is.. If you have CC fast enough to actually catch him. Oh and there's always this chance of Zed initiating with shadow, and then ultimating while you wasted CC.

If you can't CC Zed in 0.5 seconds you are the problem.

If you let Zed walk up into shadow range without being punished you are the problem.

Because if team has no CC, or ineffective CC then what? Should they lose just cause of that?

Uh, fucking, yeah, they certainly should.

If you pick a shit team comp without any crowd control you should lose against a good team comp that knows what they're doing. What kind of insane question is this?

Saianna1 votes

If you can't CC Zed in 0.5 seconds you are the problem.

yes, because the whole enemy team consist of 1 Zed and we can focus our whole attention just on him

PermabannedGaren1 votes

{quoted}

yes, because the whole enemy team consist of 1 Zed and we can focus our whole attention just on him

Well you could easily do that if he's out of position, but you don't necessarily need to. Ashe and Sona is a pretty popular bottom lane combo these days, and Ashe and Sona can keep Zed in place for 2.5 seconds, which is more than enough time to kill Zed with just those two alone.

Though, who says you need to kill him? Even if you just force him to R away that means Zed might as well be dead for the purposes of the team fight.

Guy Fox Teemo2 votes

Thats your own fault for picking a terrible team comp wtih no hard CC. I'm not using teh argument of "CC anything and its easy". You legit said he could just 1v5 kill an ADC, which he can't, that almost never happens and is completely false. Why?

Because most teams are smart enough to lock him down if he's that ballsy. If Zed could do tht shit so easily , he wouldn't be a shit tier pick in the LCS. (Thats the main reason he isn't picked, is because he's insanely easy to lock down)

Astôlfo5 votes

Zed is overrated. Outside of the few actually good Zed players, he's gutter trash.

Stalinium1 votes

I think he has a positive winrate in Master's tier lololol

Other than that...

1000angrybees5 votes

Zed's not fun to play against for a lot of people and no one wants to deal with it. Just like Fizz, Yasuo and other champs aren't exactly overpowered, but generally can feel overwhelming or frustrating.

I for one have had a lot more fun since I haven't seen so many Zeds.

WolfChases5 votes

I always ban Zed, not because he's OP but because he's so binary, one sided and usless unless he is really really good at every single point of the game and Zed as a champion. I don't really want him to score 10/0/0 and than finish the game with 10/15/1 nor I want to lose a single tam fight because my Zed is endlessly trying to splitpush and acts like Nasus.

WitchQueen Annie4 votes

Like really. if I see a Zed on the enemy team when I go ranked in Pre-made. I'll just go... "Okay someone trade me a Zilean/Lulu/Taric and I'll make sure he can't Ult a single thing in the mid/late game."

ADC, go buy Bloodthirster and stick to said counter-support who will take Exhaust too. Midlaner, play safe and rush Zhonyas (or pick Yasuo).

Make sure to push Mid super hard (forcing team fights and creating sieges). Always have your ADC be in the very middle of the team (Zed has no AOE and he'll have to dodge tons of CC only to get to a target with a GA who can still deal strong damage and life steal).

GG.

Let's see how many times he can outplay us. We're all human, at some point he's going to mess it up or go on tilt.

Split push if you want... I doubt he has the balls to tower rush against 5 of us in Mid.

Maszii3 votes

Mate, Zed counters Yasuo, not the other way round.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

{quoted}

Mate, Zed counters Yasuo, not the other way round.

In the past, I would have agreed. But now that tanky duelist builds have proven viable for Yasuo item 3046 item 3022 item 3078 etc., I'd say the matchup has swung heavily the other way. Yasuo has a far stronger early game than Zed and new item paths ensure that Yasuo has the mobility and tankiness needed to 1v1 Zed even after he has his ult. Zed most certainly beats Yasuos that still rush Shiv. But he's never going to beat a Yasuo that rushes item 3046 item 3047 item 3022.

Maszii1 votes

I can agree with that, but tbh thats mostly seen in toplane though. Where you wont really see a zed ^^

Xeruon4 votes

It's Circlejerk, don't try to convince these guys.

Zed is about a few key things:

  1. Adapting very quickly to high-stress siturations
  2. Snowballing, and spreading the snowball to other lanes
  3. Ending the game as early as possible.

After the game hits 30 mins, what very little teamfighting presence Zed had will fall off a cliff, forcing him to splitpush, and if you can outrotate him, have someone who can duel him, or his team can't turtle in a 4v5 situration due to not having a good enough frontline and/or the enemy team having very high pick potential, that falls apart, too. Zed is a ticking time bomb, yes, but with an auto-defusing system. After a certain point, he will become near-useless.

He doesn't fit in any teamcomp either. So if you're low elo (like me) and you see that your team is Trynd top, Yi jungle, Ashe ADC, and Blitzcrank support, you better don't pick an assassin, because you simply can't afford it.

DunkinNoobs3 votes

Zed hasn't been a strong laner since they gutted his early game by nerfing both his Q AND his W.

GrReaper969 votes

If by nerf you mean when they decreased his q base damage but increased the damage of multiple shurikens so landing 2 shurikien deals in the end deals more dmg (let alone 3 shurikens) than before then no

ModAcademy Kayn4 votes

2 shurikans landing was a 5 damage buff. The real buff was the three shurikans hit, but that actually takes effort.

Guy Fox Teemo2 votes

Oh yeah woooohoo 25 more damage on double q's at lvl 18

DunkinNoobs3 votes

Congrats, he has a possibility to do slightly more damage every 26 seconds in exchange for doing way less damage with his regular Q. What a deal!

GrReaper963 votes

Which is a good thing that separates the bad zeds from the good one. A good zed can land 2 Qs in lane constantly to proc thunderlords with his E but a bad zed would overspam his Q causing him to run low on energy. If your a good zed its a buff but if your a bad zed its a nerf.

Voluug132 votes

Whoomp there it is.

Zed ''mains'' spam about ''but muh skills!'' while we have clowns that complain when they raise Zed's skillfloor.

DunkinNoobs2 votes

It's a nerf no matter how good you are at Zed because even if you land 2 shurikens, it's only marginally better than it was before and you still can't do it nearly as often because the W CD was nerfed so hard. A single Q, on the other hand, is way weaker, so much weaker that you can't really zone enemies with it anymore. And that is a really, really big deal for a melee champion that mostly lanes against ranged champions. Guess what happens when you're a melee champion laning against a ranged champ that isn't afraid of you. You play Akali, you should know how this works.

GrReaper961 votes

I admit the W cd nerf hit pretty hard, causing his laning phase to be much weaker. Although the Q nerfs did effect his laning phase no longer making him a lane monster, it also helped his post-6 burst dmg. A 3 shuriken combo is significantly painful then before, making it easier for his mark to kill. Im not saying his Q damage changes were a buff, im saying they dont count as a nerf since they're shifting his power to another part of his kit. Zed always had it easy for a melee mid assasin and lowering that to increase his mid-late game effectiveness reflects better as an assasin. And yes, ive played akali for like 5 times in mid and i admit zed has it way easier than her pre-6. Hence, in my opinion shifting zeds pre-6 damage to his post-6 damage does not count as a nerf and reflects better on him as a burst assasin instead of a mid lane poker.

Only Play Darius2 votes

Yep, spot on. So many hard counters exist for Zed

Midder Scray2 votes

Everyone just hates him because his harass is great in lane and mid-late game he does an insane amount of damage if he gets fed (which happens with a lot of champs, so it doesn't really make sense to be upset about that lol)

Also he's thought to be a god just because he uses energy instead of mana. But with energy, he can't just spam his abilities several times, you still have to be careful with it or it could get you killed. And plus his health and being melee is still an issue. If you pick a ranged champ into Zed then it's pretty easy to dodge his Q's and shadows and keep his health low

Marshbouy1 votes

He annoying to face. Getting zoned by a melee as a ranged is incredibly annoying. I never ban him though.

MohawkBird1 votes

[deleted]

PermabannedGaren2 votes

{quoted}

He might not be the most powerful mid laner and assassin, but he sure as hell is the most safe. Nobody likes his ability to come in, delete your carry, and press R to get right back to safety after the 1 second it took for him to get his combo off. He's the most frustrating assassin to play against next to Akali for that reason.

LeBlanc is a safer assassin than Zed is, and there are many mid laners much safer than he is.

Zilean Anivia Morgana Xerath Galio Chogath Karma

For example.

Mobility is nice and all, but tankiness, range, and built-in life saving mechanics (like Zil ult or Anivia passive) make a champion safer than mobility alone.

Zed has to dive the back line to do anything, and when he does he can be CC'd and killed.

MohawkBird1 votes

[deleted]

PermabannedGaren3 votes

{quoted}

Most of those champions aren't that safe compared to Zed, especially when you consider Zed's ability to CS from 900+ range without mana. Every champion there uses mana, which means that once they are zoned, they are actually zoned, as opposed to Zed who can get zoned and still come out ahead because of his free poke and wave clear.

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?roleSort=Middle&sortBy=general.deaths&order=descend

That must be why they die way less on average.

Why do you people whine about laning phase as if that's the only stage of the game that matters?

Oh boo fucking hoo, the early game champion is hard to punish early if he plays really safe. Cry me a fucking river. Not that it's hard to passively farm and play safe on any of the champions I named mind you, since their auto attacks are ranged (except Galio and Cho). Use your fucking basic attacks if mana is an issue.

Also, your scenario is stupid. A Zed that farms from the maximum distance with shurikens like a sissy isn't going to be worth SHIT as the game goes on. To fulfill his function as a champion Zed has to dive into the enemy as a champion who built full damage. This makes him much less safe than the vast majority of the mages that go mid lane, who never have to put themselves so at risk.

Princess Íncest2 votes

{quoted}

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?roleSort=Middle&amp;sortBy=general.deaths&amp;order=descend

That must be why they die way less on average.

Why do you people whine about laning phase as if that's the only stage of the game that matters?

Oh boo fucking hoo, the early game champion is hard to punish early if he plays really safe. Cry me a fucking river. Not that it's hard to passively farm and play safe on any of the champions I named mind you, since their auto attacks are ranged (except Galio and Cho). Use your fucking basic attacks if mana is an issue.

Also, your scenario is stupid. A Zed that farms from the maximum distance with shurikens like a sissy isn't going to be worth SHIT as the game goes on. To fulfill his function as a champion Zed has to dive into the enemy as a champion who built full damage. This makes him much less safe than the vast majority of the mages that go mid lane, who never have to put themselves so at risk.

Damn bro u mad kid?

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