Stop gimping tank runes

GigglesO·Sep 28, 2017·76 votes·3,522 views

So when you take your secondary rune you can get +12% as ~300 gold 15 ap ~326 gold 70 health ~ 140 gold...

Woooo aww yea...

113 Comments

PopcornBunniSep 28, 201719 votes

But hey at least we get that sweet 60 gold worth of 3 armor wooo

GigglesOSep 28, 20176 votes

{quoted}

But hey at least we get that sweet 60 gold worth of 3 armor wooo

Meanwhile in the offence line 20% attack speed 500 gold, 80% attack speed 2000 gold

But hey, we have grasp that gives 5 permanent hp every time you use it which I guess if you never stopped hitting the enemy from minute 0 you could get 1500 hp in a 20 minute game soooo realisticaly 1/4 or less of that which is <500 which is 975 gold but lets be realistic here... are you even going to get 1/4 of a perfect grasp stack?

kasfasSep 28, 20175 votes

It's more like 250 in a 30 minute game.

It's very underwhelming.

Mister SupportSep 28, 20172 votes

In addition to 5% increase while being healed and with some builds/champs can be purely hitting the 25/second purely from HP regen.

SteelflameSep 28, 201720 votes

Even if you can proc that, assuming 200 armor (A fairly safe bet) you'd only be getting 10 armor. A 200 gold value. Lategame.

Those resist runes are dogshit terrible compared to offensive runes, many of which can exceed several thousand gold in value.

Glory ln DeathSep 28, 20175 votes

Not in the early game. Iron Skin and Mirror Shell are not runes meant for tanks to ever get. Tanks don't have a choice of which rune to take in that slot - Conditioning is the only one that benefits them.

Only a few tanks can get the 5% boost after healing outside of potions (in lane - Warmog's obviously helps later).

LankPantsSep 30, 20171 votes

Actually you only need to heal 20 HP in 1 sec, most tanks can very easily hit this number with a couple of HP items and SV. Why you would try though is beyond me, Conditioning is just better, most likely on every champ in the game.

Glory ln DeathSep 30, 20171 votes

Yeah, that's why I specified in lane - most tanks can't get it during laning phase. Which is the phase where these runes are meant to help you...

My personal feelings on it are: If you are going Resolve as your primary path, there is no reason whatsoever to take Iron Skin or Mirror Shell. If you are going Resolve as your secondary path, you might only be there to help with the early game, so they may be options - and you're more likely to have a built-in heal or build lifesteal that would trigger the 5% boost.

LankPantsSep 30, 20171 votes

I think if you're taking Resolve as your secondary and you're looking for something to help you through the lane phase there's better choices in other tiers.

Perseverance is probably going to save your arse more than any other mastery in the game and it's going to have a far bigger impact than Iron Skin in almost every case. You need 150 armour for 1 stack of Perseverance to be better only considering armour, but that's not where it shines, even in this case however it's still probably statistically better since you get some MR too. At two stacks it's better at 34 armour, so always. The best thing though is the tenacity you get for using a summoner, which will save you a lot more than a few points of armour anyway. This mastery is the reason you'd offspec into resolve for most champions.

After that there's second wind, which is going to give you far more anti harass than 3 armour. Let's say you get hit to half HP and you have 800 HP. This mastery would regen you by 16 HP meaning for 3 armour to save you that much HP you'd have to take 788 damage assuming you had 20 base armour. It gets worse as your armour gets higher. Mini D-Shield just saves you more HP at all but very high HP values.

Glory ln DeathSep 30, 20171 votes

Just goes to show how crappy Iron Skin and Mirror Shell are that even Second Wind, which is a pretty crappy rune, itself, is pretty clearly superior...

LankPantsSep 30, 20171 votes

I actually think Second Wind's pretty solid, it's not the best rune by a long shot but it still beats out most of the Resolve tree quite handily and is even fairly average when compared across trees.

The only other non-keystone runes in resolve which seem stronger to me are Font, Perseverance and conditionally Overgrowth.

Glory ln DeathSep 30, 20171 votes

Second Wind would be decent if it weren't completely gated by the "for 10 seconds after being damaged by an enemy champion" condition. With it's current numbers and effects, it's just a crappy version of the current Perseverance Mastery (+50% health regen, increased to +200% health regen when below 25% health). If it gave some other effect during those 10 seconds, or gave a weaker, persistent effect outside of the 10 seconds, it would be a decent rune.

As it is right now, the healing is way too low. It's only noticeable when you're almost dead and don't want to be taking damage, anyways, and it won't help you at that point, since you're an easy kill. It can be decent for tanks in the late game - 12 health per second when you're down 3k in a teamfight is pretty good - but it's terrible in lane.

LankPantsSep 30, 20171 votes

Second Wind would be decent if it weren't completely gated by the "for 10 seconds after being damaged by an enemy champion" condition

It's heal over 10 seconds, my understanding is that the healing starts immediately. So if you're AAd by a Jayce then 2.5 seconds later he AAs you again you'd heal 1% of your missing HP over the first 2.5 seconds then it would be overwritten and you'd heal for 4% of your new missing HP value.

SpoofghoulSep 29, 201711 votes

well at least we have iron skin + 3/5% armor

they could have done something like

Iron skin +5 armor, after healing for at least 20 or consumable you refresh your armor, reducing 50% of any armor shredding effects and reducing the effect of armor penetration by 50% for 3 seconds

Would be a whole lot more useful then +3/5% armor which after cleaver and ldr have said their piece about it adds up to like what 8-10 armor late game

Already feeling the ever increasing healthpool at +10% after i get 500 cs when game ends before you can even get half of that and items no longer give a shred of hp

Seriously anyone who thinks tank runes are strong is debil

BobaFlautistSep 28, 20179 votes

To be fair, health is a stronger early game stat than AP or attack speed. And you'll have comparatively more armor/mr than ad, crit, armor pen, magic pen, or CDR early, so you get more value out of it.

But yeah most of the tank runes feel a lot more situational than the aggressive ones.

GigglesOSep 28, 20176 votes

How do you figure, where is your data, please give me your statistical analysis.

BobaFlautistSep 28, 20179 votes

15 ap will add less than 60 damage to any full rotation. 70hp>60 damage.

GigglesOSep 28, 20173 votes

70 damage is literally 1 spell worth of damage...

Votable JesterSep 28, 20173 votes

He's talking about damage that the bonus AP would give.

nice tableSep 28, 201731 votes

you usually get hit by more than 1 rotation of spells in a lane

EschetonSep 28, 201719 votes

[{quoted}](name=nice table,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w9RLZRnN,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2017-09-28T18:00:11.179+0000)

you usually get hit by more than 1 rotation of spells in a lane

^This. 70 health is nice. 70 health and 5 health/level or something would be better. Manageable upfront stats, but actually worth what you are paying for it.

SpoofghoulSep 28, 20175 votes

or possibly early hp/5 or something akin to old dorans shield where it blocks X damage

TerozuSep 28, 20172 votes

So that means that it only exists to cancel out the ap?

Best princess EUSep 28, 20176 votes

laning phase is not a straight 1v1 in any way

15 ap throughout 5 min can deal over 200 bonus damage

DuskDaUmbreonSep 28, 20178 votes

How can the boards simultaneously complain both about how strong tank runes will be and how weak they will be?

GigglesOSep 28, 201717 votes

Because dealing damage is not something tanks should do... Which is what they are complaining about...

I Main SwainSep 28, 20173 votes

yeah it seems like riot is trying to make tanks more self sufficient by giving them more damage throughout the game at the sacrifice of tankiness. building tank doesnt even do much anymore, its just a tanky support now

Critmaster GarenSep 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Because dealing damage is not something tanks should do... Which is what they are complaining about...

wait wtf. which tank rune allows tanks to deal damage?

the only damage rune in resolve is grasp, and thats the same as now with a stacking health bonus to add like 100 to 200 more health over the course of a game.

are they talking about aftershock? i honestly dont see much of a difference to grasp.

GigglesOSep 28, 20174 votes

(to towers) go read them if you don't understand why people are complaining about the tank tree being op... it gives tanks an option to push...

Critmaster GarenSep 28, 201716 votes

{quoted}

(to towers) go read them if you don't understand why people are complaining about the tank tree being op... it gives tanks an option to push...

i think the issue is with adding more turret sieging abilities when turrets are already considered weak.

my personal opinion is, that giving other classes than marksmen the ability to siege objectives as well as them is a step in the right direction to make marksmen less mandatory for a teamcomp.

but from there they need to buff turret resilience in general, so they dont fall over like card houses.

TeCoolMageSep 29, 20173 votes

Yeah I have to agree with you. I hate the idea that tanks can't do damage and carries have to do damage, and everything else is a bruiser. Every champion should have an optimal choice in terms of general tankiness, but it should be fine to bend builds (and have the choice through runes and items) to compensate for a missing role.

AFK PushSep 29, 20172 votes

ADCs can still have that rune if they put tank as secondary which isn't that bad.

PopcornBunniSep 28, 201719 votes

{quoted}

How can the boards simultaneously complain both about how strong tank runes will be and how weak they will be?

"The boards are one person"

IcyPepperSep 28, 201751 votes

How can the boards complain about the boards complaining?

Dr PoroSep 28, 201728 votes

How can the boards simultaneously complain and complain about complaining and complain about complaining about complaining?

KnalxzSep 28, 201729 votes

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_G777JJtwUs/TyHaeYfCcDI/AAAAAAAAApo/vjZeRGwQLQw/s1600/black-guy-gif-star-trek.gif

InfernapeSep 28, 20178 votes

Complainception.

Velzard of KozSep 29, 20174 votes

I hate this Boards guy. Annoying fella.

Lil Homie bustaSep 29, 20177 votes

Why they don't put a health % ? It would make more impactful without messing with the early game by giving to much health stat, since it would scale.

Lil Homie bustaSep 28, 20175 votes

Except by the Key runes, demolish and perseverance, the resolve path is a fuc------ joke. The inspiration path gives more durability as a secondary path than resolve. lol

Sire HippingtonSep 28, 20174 votes

What i find worse is that all 3 keystones in the TANK tree focus on damage, graso mostly is for the damage procs cause for some reason it's 3%hp as damage and only 1,5 as healing, demolish is damage only, and aftershock whie atleast giveing solid defense also focuses more on the aoe damage. It's wiered that there is no really defensive focused keaystone in that tree, but the dps tree has one...which scales off of stats and thus is not great on tanky champs.

Iota ThetaSep 28, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w9RLZRnN,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-09-28T20:28:28.821+0000)

What i find worse is that all 3 keystones in the TANK tree focus on damage, graso mostly is for the damage procs cause for some reason it's 3%hp as damage and only 1,5 as healing, demolish is damage only, and aftershock whie atleast giveing solid defense also focuses more on the aoe damage. It's wiered that there is no really defensive focused keaystone in that tree, but the dps tree has one...which scales off of stats and thus is not great on tanky champs.

Demolish isn’t the 3rd keystone. Courage is, the shield for yourself and your allies before they take damage.

The other two keystones do have defensive aspects as well though. Aftershock grants bonus armor and MR leading up the the blast (similar to Leona W), while Grasp grants effectively infinite health scaling. I would say Grasp is the only real damage focused one, but it has a decent defensive boost as well (increasing health is always good on tanks and Juggernauts)

SteelflameSep 28, 20174 votes

Demolish isn't a keystone.

The 3 tank keystones are Grasp, GUARDIAN, and Aftershock. Guardian is a purely defensive keystone, where you can channel on an ally and if they would take damage, you and they gain a short shield that is applied before the damage is taken, with a 60 second CD. If the proc isn't consumed at all, it instead goes on a 6 second CD.

Also, something you haven't really noticed on Grasp, every time you proc it you gain a max hp bonus. If you proc it a ton, you can easily gain several hundred HP, as it gives +5 max hp per proc on melees. You can theoretically proc it a max of 15 times per minute in laning phase. If you assume 10 minutes of procs, it is 750 hp. So assuming a safe bet of 1/3rd or 1/4th proc of that, you'd be able to push for a solid 200-250 hp by the end of laning phase as a permanent bonus.

Grasp is pushing you to be very aggressive in top lane, I'll say that much, as every time you proc it it is increasing your total power.

Glory ln DeathSep 28, 20174 votes

That's not a safe bet for a melee top lane tank. A safe bet would be them proccing Grasp 2-4 times per minute for 100-200 health at the end of laning phase. Between recalling, your opponent recalling, TP plays on either side, and your general lack of range and mobility, you aren't likely to get more than that while actually farming and not getting murdered for going too ham and inviting the enemy jungler to gank you.

DaNinadSep 29, 20173 votes

Grasp on fiora

shudders

AirKingNeoSep 28, 20171 votes

Because tank stats have more value.

GigglesOSep 28, 20176 votes

please back your claim with statistical data...

AirKingNeoSep 29, 20172 votes

Even better, analytical.

Tanks literally cannot be killed by any class who isn't marksmen. Tank items are already inefficient, yet still make them unkillable. Put two and two together.

GigglesOSep 29, 20171 votes

As a morde main I strongly disagree. I feel like everyone can kill me at all times unless I'm 6 items while everyone else is at 4...