Coming from a Zyra main: she does not need a rework, just some small changes

P0IS0N IVY··2 votes·538 views

I'm an avid Zyra main and have played her ever since I started ranked. I had an 80% winrate with her when I reached plat in season 4. I have approximately 700 games with her in both normals and ranked. The plant has very defined weaknesses and strengths as well as a good playstyle.

Zyra excels in zone control and punishes anyone who steps into her territory. She provides instantaneous soft CC and delayed hard CC. Given that her kit is all aoe, her strength comes from being able to catch multiple people out and keeping them there (or just the adc - that works too). She has long ranged harass, but would have to sacrifice some of her zone control for it. I like that she's a champion with choices. I'm not forced into a certain playstyle when I play her, and I can adapt with the situation.

I play Zyra both mid and support, but support is my favorite role. The main reason why I choose her is that she can block skillshots, an absolutely invaluable thing when protecting your adc. However, in order to do so, Zyra must trade her damage and leave herself vulnerable to save the adc. The timing must also be correct, and that is a challenge in and of itself. The plant must pop up while the enemy skillshot is in progress or Zyra has lost a valuable chunk of her damage and her adc is dead. Her seeds have a rather long cooldown time and the best time to catch her out is when she has no plants to call upon. She is also very squishy and quickly falls when you get right in her face.

There are a few things about Zyra that make her rather clunky. The first is her plant AI, which has been discussed on these forums multiple times. The plants will start off targeting an enemy champion and then immediately change targets even while the enemy remains in their range. Zyra is losing potential damage because of this and if such a mechanic is what she is balanced around, then the plant behavior must change to be more consistent. Secondly is Zyra's passive. I personally don't approve of any passive that requires you to die. However, it does work for some champions like Karthus but is absolutely useless for others like KogMaw. Zyra's passive is so delayed and the skillshot so narrow that it is borderline useless. Not to mention it's incredibly buggy. Even I have fired it on occasion without meaning to due to mashing buttons previous to my death. I don't like that the grasping roots I attempted to cast right before dying translates to my dead plant firing a thorn into thin air 3 seconds after.

So to sum up Zyra:

Strengths: Zone control, soft CC, hard CC, skillshot block, free vision Weaknesses: Slower than molasses, squishy, vulnerable without seedlings, E is slow moving, ult is delayed Clunkiness: Delayed and buggy passive, buggy plant AI

So in my opinion, Zyra does not need a full rework but instead a few fixes to make her a bit smoother. I would be happy if the passive activated faster for example.

18 Comments

coeurloyal1 votes

No offense, but I'm a bit confused as to why everybody is acting like each of these champions is getting a Sion-level update. Sure, there will be kit changes, but it's not like her core identity is going to go away.

I will agree that Zyra seems like a bit of an outlier here because she is quite unique and brings different tools to the table though, so I would assume that they added her to the group as an opportunity to giver her som QoL or kit changes that may make her dps more reliable.

LaoBushido1 votes

the main reason is track record look at malicious metal he felt the mord rework the hardest and it was really bad, same thing for resent rework from the junger naut and marksmen have negative reaction the community just doesn't want the same thing to happen to their mage main, i myself am in the same boat but i believe riotrep is getting the good points of the malz in his head

P0IS0N IVY1 votes

They could be getting Sion-level updates for all we know. We are voicing our opinions now in an effort to ensure this does not happen.

LaoBushido1 votes

they have confirmed at most changes will be like marksmen level Caitlyn Quinn so at most a champ will lose their passive, ult , and one ability. base on what they intend on zyra her passive will change so she can summon a jungle

P0IS0N IVY2 votes

Do you mind linking your source please? I was not aware of this.

BladeSteel1 votes

Look again at what they've said. Where did you get this info?

P0IS0N IVY1 votes

The closest thing I can find is "similar to the Juggernaut and Marksman releases" but I look at Skarner and Graves and those are very dramatic changes....

Not something I would want for Zyra.

BladeSteel1 votes

and look at caitlyn and mf and garen and darius.

coeurloyal1 votes

I would argue that they really aren't that dramatic short of passive changes (which were rather sweeping). I would also argue that 90% of those updates were huge improvements over their former iterations--Skarner being the definite exception. Nobody is promising that they're going to play the same after updated, but its almost guaranteed that they'll have clear use-cases across the board rather than being cheese picks.

LaoBushido1 votes
LaoBushido1 votes

{quoted}

None of these updates will be close to Fiora sized (think roughly same scale on average as the marksmen changes).

{quoted}

We haven't yet started work on Zyra other than ideation, but one of the things we tended to be excited about was more plant interactions, like she brings the forest alive around her. Not sure where that means we're going to take her, but I am excited to see what the team comes up with.

P0IS0N IVY1 votes

Thank you. I missed the Meddler one.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

sums it up...i personally still thinks she´d deserve a nerf on the ult-radius to force her to think about it a little more. the passive isn´t meant to be reliable, but if you delay it long enough most people can´t focus on it and you can add some nice revenge dmg in teamfights after unleashing your kit beforehand. Better on support zyra than mid though (support zyra is supposed to die for her carry if need be, mid not soo much).

LeBlanc Jameś1 votes

Don't change her!!!!!!!!!!! item 3070

The Bearded Bard1 votes

While I'm not nearly as huge of a Zyra main as you are, I am a pretty avid Zyra player. This is my thread for proposed Zyra changes. The changes are focused around doing less burst damage and potentially spawning a lot more plants, along with giving her an entirely new W spell with a new plant and everything. Her W was moved to her passive and her passive was removed.

P0IS0N IVY1 votes

I was reading that just now. I don't think those changes are necessarily bad, but you removed my favorite part about Zyra, which is her ability to block skillshots.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

Not entirely. Having your passive ready and using your Q spawns the plant regardless if you hit something or not. I did that on purpose just so people could still block skillshots. I suppose it's less readily available than it is now, but it's not completely removed, and with the lower cooldown on Q, you might even be able to do it more often.

P0IS0N IVY1 votes

Yes, I think less readily available is more appropriate wording. The skills block is what I see as most important about Zyra, so I would not like such a change.

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