Idea to re-amp the "Fill" role

Ten Summer Suns·Mar 13, 2019·17 votes·9,824 views

Petition to create "secondary" position when primary selection is "FILL" where second selection is "except".

So "Fill/Bottom" = Any role EXCEPT Bottom,

Please make this happen.

30 Comments

FioraWillCarryMar 13, 20194 votes

I don't see the point of this to be honest. Everyone will just veto support. It adds nothing and solves nothing. Riot already tested something like this. You can find it in one of the devblogs or Ask Riot posts somewhere.

ButterwoodMar 13, 20198 votes

AKA "I never select fill so I don't care about this suggestion"

Frog goes mooMar 14, 20191 votes

{quoted}

AKA "I never select fill so I don't care about this suggestion"

He literally gave you a problem to this idea and you're just brushing it off as since he doesn't ever play fill his problem is invalid? And this somehow got 7 upvotes. Lmao. Is this the pinnacle of the boards?

ButterwoodMar 14, 20192 votes

His comment was invalid because he's coming at it from a standpoint of "it adds nothing and solves nothing", when it actually would add something and solve something for us fill players. It'd be like if someone who never plays support were to say "let's just nerf all supp gold income items, who cares?".

Frog goes mooMar 14, 20192 votes

{quoted}

His comment was invalid because he's coming at it from a standpoint of "it adds nothing and solves nothing", when it actually would add something and solve something for us fill players. It'd be like if someone who never plays support were to say "let's just nerf all supp gold income items, who cares?".

you're actually right. I didn't see the other stuff he said. I must have just skimmed his sentence. But what he says about everyone vetoing support is valid though.

ButterwoodMar 14, 20192 votes

I agree, but at that point they'd just deal with autofill like everyone else. I personally love this suggestion because it'd allow me to exclude mid. Even if I have to autofill every few games, I still think this would make it so I rarely get placed there.

For what it's worth, I didn't mind filling mid when positional ranks were a thing. I was a Bronze 3/4 mid laner (where I belonged), but a Silver 2 jungle/top/supp. Me going up against an S2 midlaner would basically be a tower-hugging ping-for-help fest that I assume my teammates would like to avoid.

Ten Summer SunsMar 13, 20193 votes

I understand it might not effect how you play the game so much, but for players like me it would be a really cool tool. And honestly, I first began selecting "Fill" during the "veto support" phase just so I could get Support because nobody else wanted it. I would use the example I used. I don't like being ADC so much.

(edit) Plus, if you don't select Fill, and you choose two options, you're guaranteed not to play 3 positions as long as you're not autofill active. It doesn't really add any advantage over other players, it just helps. I play "Fill" and I can't complain when I get ADC because I made that choice. I'm just saying, when you pick "Fill" you don't get a second choice- why not just use that to cut us a little break for helping queue times?

FioraWillCarryMar 13, 20192 votes

You need to think about this more deeply. Adding this feature is basically creating a Fill option that never fills support because that's what the vast majority of players would do anyway.

Allowing players to select up an arbitrary number of positions would achieve much the same result. Fill with veto is just a roundabout but inferior way of doing the same thing.

If you instead implemented a system where you can choose from 1 to all 5 positions, it would satisfy a larger share of the player base. Some of you might not want to veto any position so you can choose all 5, a true fill. Some, like you, may not like a single position and can choose 4 positions. Some, might be hardcore one tricks that only want to play mid all day so they can choose 1 position.

Ten Summer SunsMar 13, 20191 votes

You over-analyzed this whole situation.

"Fill" is not selecting "All roles". "Fill" is selecting "whatever is left". Players that choose the fill option are helping to lower queue times by lowering their priority in role assignment.

Let's say you went "Top / Mid" an ally went "Top / Bot", and another ally went "Top / Bot".. because of the demand for Top, and the demand for Bot, you might get placed Mid because your two allies have a higher priority when it comes to compromising their decisions... they both have the same desire- where as your secondary desire is a solution- there secondary desire still poses a problem.

3 People want Top.. okay so what's their 2nd choice? 2 want Bot and one wants Mid.. Place the midlaner, now let's resolve the other two.

That's how the autofill system works.

Now, when someone goes "Fill", they aren't in this equation at all. There's no priority. If we were allowed to exempt a role for a "Fill Buffer", then it would just be something to add priority to Fill players in role assignment.

And this wouldn't really complicate anything.

Now.. here's another option for role selection:

"Mid / Fill" This is a good function to work off.

Essentially, "Role / Fill" places priority on primary role, but takes the player off priority for "primary conflicts". The "secondary" is just the conflict resolution. If we could do something like "Fill / Mid", then there is no priority until it is prompted.

Someone going "Fill / Mid" would register as "no priority" until the conflict resolutions attempt placing that player in the "mid role".

Zane ZephyrMar 14, 20191 votes

When you're in a group with 3 people, four different positions have to be selected so what you said is mostly irrelevant. And fill means you are willing to play whatever role is needed, so technically it is selecting all roles because you aren't preferring any one role over another.

aCIDIChaOSMar 14, 20191 votes

ok so imagine you just dont want to play mid because mid gets a lot of attention any but mid not like if auto fill is popped it wont still give you mid (or support in most peoples cases) but it doesnt negatively affect you at all if this happens, so... WHY ARE YOU DISREGARDING OR PUTTING DOWN THIS IDEA? If it will help someone else and it doesnt hurt you at all to do it, or even inconvenience you at all, WHY NOT?

Ten Summer SunsMar 15, 20191 votes

That's not what I said. I never mentioned anything about "groups". I think you're taking my example the wrong way. These 3 players I'm hypothetically talking about are just random solo players trying to queue up. I'm trying to explain how Riot handles the traffic for a bunch of randoms trying to join games. The reason queue times are high is because you have to find players that fill the slots. More players requesting the same position creates that priority queueing. You're right though, if we're talking about partying up then the whole argument dies. Usually parties have an idea where each player wants to be.

RenownedWheat42Mar 13, 20192 votes

Before I switched to maining jungle/top, I'd often queue support/fill and half the time I was playing some other role. Hell, even in the last few days I've done it and three of the five games where I did it I got mid lane.

ButterwoodMar 13, 20193 votes

Upvote from me! I exclusively fill but am an atrocious mid laner. It only happens one in every 25 or so games, but when I fill mid and am unable to trade out of it I basically just end up trying not to feed for 30 mins.

Ten Summer SunsMar 13, 20192 votes

It reminds me of those enlightened soul memes. Us "Fill" players are God-tier among the "role-mains".

DragonFa11Mar 13, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Upvote from me! I exclusively fill but am an atrocious mid laner. It only happens one in every 25 or so games, but when I fill mid and am unable to trade out of it I basically just end up trying not to feed for 30 mins.

SAME

QuephaMar 13, 20192 votes

As long as you realize it means you could still be autofilled into that role.

Ten Summer SunsMar 13, 20197 votes

Yes, if you have "autofill activated" then you can still be placed into the excepted role. It would work like normal autofill at that point. But as long as autofill is protected, then the idea is that you're safe from any role of your choosing if your primary choice is "Fill".

QuephaMar 13, 20194 votes

sounds good to me

Ten Summer SunsMar 13, 20192 votes

rubs hands together deviously because playing fill means never being auto-filled

InfernapeMar 13, 20192 votes

Riot tried it in LAS and LAN. They found it make queues worse. Everyone opted to exclude support.

Ten Summer SunsMar 14, 20191 votes

I'm just a standard player. They need to test it openly, the best way to determine if its successful is to try it. I'll be honest, I don't know what LAS or LAN are. So it seems to me that the standard player base isn't fully represented in whatever test Riot tried. People play "Fill" when they realize their primary role has low-priority status. Or players like me select fill to just experience different aspects of the game. Either way, it seems reasonable to allow these players that option.

Zane ZephyrMar 14, 20191 votes

It's North/Southern Latin America. And yeah, people will exclude support overwhelmingly so it ends up being counter-intuitive. And if it does it on a small scale experiment, it's not going to change in the larger scale.

cryptixxMar 13, 20192 votes

I was just thinking about how i want this sooo bad! I love playing all roles except jungle and right now when selecting fill i get jungle 2/3 of the time.

Hemulen MagiMar 13, 20191 votes

There should just be a set of checkboxes for fill and you can select anywhere between 2-5 when choosing fill.

Ten Summer SunsMar 13, 20191 votes

That would re-vamp the entire "autofill" system though. It's basically priority queueing. To reduce queue times, players select the role they want and a back-up role. The back-up role is selected when the queue traffic becomes too high due to role-conflict. If everyone wants the same role, then secondary roles get assigned. And when "autofill" is active, they attempt to do the same thing- except they have a 3rd option to just place you anywhere.

When you select "Fill" it just bypasses the whole priority queueing to get you in a game. It also reduces the queue traffic because you neutralize 10% of priority queueing procedures for a match.

Hemulen MagiMar 13, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ten Summer Suns,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vtPRuK2U,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-03-13T22:56:33.048+0000)

That would re-vamp the entire "autofill" system though. It's basically priority queueing. To reduce queue times, players select the role they want and a back-up role. The back-up role is selected when the queue traffic becomes too high due to role-conflict. If everyone wants the same role, then secondary roles get assigned. And when "autofill" is active, they attempt to do the same thing- except they have a 3rd option to just place you anywhere.

When you select "Fill" it just bypasses the whole priority queueing to get you in a game. It also reduces the queue traffic because you neutralize 10% of priority queueing procedures for a match.

You would only get autofill protection when supporting or when filling with the support option selected.

Selecting 2 fill options would be the same as selecting those two options normally, but explicitly with no role priority preference indicated between the two.

By the way, autofill is a crutch which should have been made unnecessary long ago. Riot needs to keep actively working at making support a more rewarding role until it is desirable enough for supply to naturally meet matchmaking demands. If they won't improve the role's gameplay experience, then they should add an extrinsic incentive like extra hextech key chance for playing whatever is the most "in-demand" role. Autofill is a terrible and unneeded user experience.

The23rdGamerMar 14, 20191 votes

They've already tested versions of autofill where players could choose a role they would not be given... but almost everyone chose to not play support (which the lack of support players was a fairly large reason for the implementation of our current autofill system).

You're talking about manually selecting fill though, which is different. Are you meaning to say that you want to queue for fill primary and then just specify the role you'd like to get the least?

I ask this because I could see that making sense (sometimes I don't care what i play as long as it isn't {role}) but I don't think it's viable to eliminate autofill altogether. I do think that selecting "preferably not support" for example would work though: Top, Jungle, Mid, and Bottom all would have an equal chance for you to be filled to that role and the Support fill would be considered as a secondary pick, much like queuing for two specific positions already does.

Would love to hear back if you were meaning something more like the preference option I mentioned or if you were meaning to remove autofill for those who queue fill on whatever role they chose as their "EXCEPT: Role" thing. [sg-syndra]

Ten Summer SunsMar 15, 20191 votes

I'm not talking about autofill. Autofill is autofill. There should be no exceptions.

I'm talking about just for choosing "FILL" as your primary role. This is something I do all the time. But I really fall off as an ADC. When you choose "FILL" as your primary role, you don't get a secondary role option for obvious reasons. Players who choose FILL should still be allowed a second pick, but due to the nature of "FILL" a second pick should be that role exception.

aCIDIChaOSMar 14, 20191 votes

yes, i actually just tried to repost a similar idea