I almost caught Kalista today using a melee champion! OMG!

arbokfister·Feb 18, 2015·43 votes·3,911 views

I built full movement speed Rammus with 5 and 1 , had full movement speed runes and was using powerball. God damn she is well designed

53 Comments

TecToNiiCFeb 18, 201556 votes

Almost catching her is probably enough to get rammus nerfed

arbokfisterFeb 18, 201514 votes

{quoted}

Almost catching her is probably enough to get rammus nerfed

Agreed

Ryan123339Feb 19, 20153 votes

If anything catches kalista gets nerfed, unless it's another kalista, lee sin or zed

MarkedOfKaneFeb 18, 201513 votes

I was playing a Twisted Tree line the other day.(Who cares about TT, thats not the point)

Aatrox, Mordekaiser & Yasuo.

I was the Aatrox and we caught her. I had landed my knockup. Yasuo ulted off of it. Mordekaiser does his ult and E. The moment she touched the ground, she flew out of there and was completely untouchable. I landed my slow, used randuins. I couldn't even attack her because she kept jumping back and fourth, causing me to just stand in like the same spot pacing.

arbokfisterFeb 18, 20155 votes

{quoted}

I was playing a Twisted Tree line the other day.(Who cares about TT, thats not the point)

Aatrox, Mordekaiser & Yasuo.

I was the Aatrox and we caught her. I had landed my knockup. Yasuo ulted off of it. Mordekaiser does his ult and E. The moment she touched the ground, she flew out of there and was completely untouchable. I landed my slow, used randuins. I couldn't even attack her because she kept jumping back and fourth, causing me to just stand in like the same spot pacing.

I know the feels :(

Celeste BenalFeb 18, 201515 votes

Yasuo should have 100-0'd Kalista by himself. All he had to do was RQEQ. If not, then your team was really far behind and probably wasn't going to win anyway.

NarasimhaFeb 19, 20157 votes

If that entire combo didn't kill her, then it wouldn't have made a difference.

OJ191Feb 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I was playing a Twisted Tree line the other day.(Who cares about TT, thats not the point)

Aatrox, Mordekaiser & Yasuo.

I was the Aatrox and we caught her. I had landed my knockup. Yasuo ulted off of it. Mordekaiser does his ult and E. The moment she touched the ground, she flew out of there and was completely untouchable. I landed my slow, used randuins. I couldn't even attack her because she kept jumping back and fourth, causing me to just stand in like the same spot pacing.

how does she not die from an aatrox morde yasuo wombo combo, what are you all building full tank 0 damage or something.

MarkedOfKaneFeb 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

how does she not die from an aatrox morde yasuo wombo combo, what are you all building full tank 0 damage or something.

We all had good damage, it was at the point where Aatrox & Morde got some durability due to the large damage the enemy team has. If I can remember, she wasn't like a glass cannon. I think she healed and the moment she hit the ground, she was rapidly healing back up and dancing around us. Then she pulled in the Skarner and the other champion showed up.

I was very shocked that she survived.

Lord DusteonFeb 18, 201511 votes

This info is based on a ROUGH estimate of Kalista's dash distance from the wiki indicator. As such, I will run this with the highest values (Kalista jumping backwards, max boots, 2.5 AS. As Her dash scales with the named effect of boot movement speed, I will assume a 2x scaling and swiftness boots (to go with a base jump of 150. This ends up being a jump of 337.5.

As such, a 2.5 AS Kalista could cover 843.75 distance (if we assume Q is an instant cast, this goes up to 1181.25). As a sidenote, please remember that autoattacks + her Q both have a windup, and her dash still has some time spent as a projectile before she lands and can autoattack again.

A Rammus with full movement speed has a base of 335 movement speed, adding 60 movement speed from swiftness boots. The flat % increases are 25% from zeals and 4.5% from runes. His multiplicative % bonus is 0%, ramping up to 140%. This ends up being a movement speed of (pre soft caps) 511.525 to 1227.66. After the cap, this goes to 485.76 to 843.83.

As such, a full ms rammus (and no, that is a shitty movespeed rammus build. Don't build flat %, build multiplicative :/ ) could catch up to a Kalista, even assuming extremely favorable circumstances for Kalista (sidenote, red buff would probably make the catching Kalista part much harder. Second sidenote, you are a rammus, just continue building armor and maybe a thornmail, then press W.)

8bj2yMEanNFeb 18, 201511 votes

I agree delete kalista

aaronconlinFeb 18, 20158 votes

I don't understand why people think movement speed is going to let them catch Kalista. Her attacks let her jump away from you, meaning no matter how fast you go towards her, she will jump away from you. item 3143 item 3110 = slower attacks = less jumps = easier to catch.

KingsgraveFeb 18, 20157 votes

{quoted}

I don't understand why people think movement speed is going to let them catch Kalista. Her attacks let her jump away from you, meaning no matter how fast you go towards her, she will jump away from you. = slower attacks = less jumps = easier to catch.

She builds 2 AS items. Reducing her AS by like 30% isn't going to help you catch her all that much.

arbokfisterFeb 18, 20156 votes

{quoted}

She builds 2 AS items. Reducing her AS by like 30% isn't going to help you catch her all that much.

Preach it!

Rinky DinkyFeb 19, 20155 votes

You would be suprised how much of a difference it makes.

OnegarionFeb 19, 20151 votes

In this case its less about how much of a numerical difference it makes but how much of a feel difference. Sounds a little weird, but when you are used to being at 2.5 AS and drop from there its a different feel that you aren't ready for. It throws you out of the rhythm and that can sometimes be all you need.

Lumus AvatarFeb 18, 20156 votes

I caught her with Skarner, and ate her. Go stun and suppression ult.

SookoFeb 18, 20155 votes

IMO her dash shouldn't go over terrain. Vayne's Q has a 2 second cooldown after she uses her auto, and doesn't go through walls due to its low CD. I don't know why a champion that can dash every time an auto is used (and autos can be used more than once per second) can go over any kind of terrain without any problem. Or at least let player-made terrain stop her...

flibitydooFeb 19, 20152 votes

{quoted}

IMO her dash shouldn't go over terrain. Vayne's Q has a 2 second cooldown after she uses her auto, and doesn't go through walls due to its low CD. I don't know why a champion that can dash every time an auto is used (and autos can be used more than once per second) can go over any kind of terrain without any problem. Or at least let player-made terrain stop her...

From what I've seen of Kalista, her hops are about Nid hops/ Riven hops in terms of how big a wall she can leap through.

And anecdotally, most Kalista players I've played against never leap towards walls (even the thin ones). Probably has something to do with cornering herself/limiting her mobility by doing so.

WindfallenFeb 19, 20155 votes

I knew kalista was annoying to deal with on the rift once she gets a lot of items, but I just played against her in dominion where the gold comes easy...

10 minutes in I decide to go help morde down in the "bot lane" (Dominion) because kalista is being slippery.

summoner 4 summoner 6 item 3144 item 3184 + Eve W were not enough to even stay in range for hatespikes.

Athenes LuluFeb 20, 20152 votes

Speaking of Kalista and targeted cc...

I present myself, the Lulu support. W enemy cast her > poke her with Q > she can't hop like a silly kangaroo anymore > tell your team to chain cc her > finish her off.

Also explains why Annie shits on her in lane as well. Her Q allows her teammates to do some chain cc so Kalista blows up instantly.

Inb4 Rito nerfs champs with targeted cc so Kalista will kite forever and forever...

delonixFeb 19, 20151 votes

item 3270 summoner 12 Rammus I promise you will get to her, even if she jumps away right after.

j jFeb 19, 20154 votes

Mobi + homeguards are countered by dmg

TrylobyteFeb 19, 20151 votes

Rammus should have an easy time negating Kallista. Get some tankiness, grab a Thornmail, then Defensive Ball Curl and walk at her. If she's kiting you then she's attacking you, damaging herself, and either backing away from her team or moving closer to yours, all things that are good for you. If she's ignoring you, taunt her and kill her.

ThefriendlyorcFeb 19, 20152 votes

Most of them get a runaans. So they don't need to focus you. They put a million stacks of rend on everyone and do a trillion damage. Even on full tank, sunfire, thornmail, rammus she can hurt you. Hell, that's assuming you can get into melee range to taunt her. If you power ball you can use ball curl. So if you ball curl you sure as shit won't catch her.

Great OzymandiusFeb 19, 20151 votes

To add to this, her rend does %max health magic damage. So as rammus, stacking armor will not mitigate this enormous source of damage. Neither will stacking health. That means you need to build sizable magic resist. But then you haven't build as much armor or health or movespeed. Thus, she is more difficult to catch and can kill you very quickly.

For example, people have been advocating FH + randuins to slow her attack speed and reduce her dashes. Others recommend a thornmail, which is a natural buy versus an adc as rammus. However, if you build these three things you will not have much health, and not have any mr. What else to buy? merc treads, banshees, FM? maybe. But as you build to this, you will have gaps in your defenses she can exploit.

I don't think there is a clear strategy that will work versus a kallista. If she is good, you really have to hope her team is bad and your team is good, to make up for her overpowered kit. That's really depressing and demonstrates bad balance.

ThefriendlyorcFeb 20, 20151 votes

It's even worse if they have some of the more powerfull junglers to help her out as well, jarvan can pretty much win against a rammus in....what's that word? Everything. Clear speed, cc, dueling, etc. Overloaded champs rule the meta right now and it's hard to justify playing anything besides them =/

ReikkenFeb 20, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Great Ozymandius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vqwBpaEz,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2015-02-19T23:49:21.878+0000)

I don't think there is a clear strategy that will work versus a kallista. If she is good, you really have to hope her team is bad and your team is good, to make up for her overpowered kit. That's really depressing and demonstrates bad balance.

Here's my strategy: Pick Annie charge stun press Q on her unload with the rest after Q connects collect gold

stokasticFeb 19, 20151 votes

item 3172 bro

Silents429Feb 19, 20151 votes

How do people not catch her, I do it with Volibear, Warwick, Trundle and just. Seriously she isn't that hard to catch.

ThefriendlyorcFeb 19, 20151 votes

Kalista must have been afk for you to catch her with trundle.

Silents429Feb 20, 20151 votes

A slow on his Q, W speed up, And pillar with E.

Also build item 3153 on him.

I also like how I get downvoted for not having the same problems as everyone else.

101100111000Feb 20, 20151 votes

But the passive is unaffected by movement speed slows because it scales off of boot tier. You literally shouldn't be able to catch her unless she lets you.

Silents429Feb 20, 20151 votes

But its affected by Randiuns and Frozen Heart.

Or flanking her.

ThefriendlyorcFeb 20, 20151 votes

She's gonna build so much attack speed those really wont matter. not to mention she's got a powerful slow tool AND a stun if her link is nearby.

Silents429Feb 21, 20151 votes

-30% is a lot.

Flanking her is even better. She is still squishy. And can be CC'ed. And if she wants to be a pussy and run from team fights then let her, its a 4v5 then.

ThefriendlyorcFeb 21, 20151 votes

Its less 'her 4v5ing' and more 'she's kiting you, doing killer damage, usually has her soul linked target near. So if you try and go for her, she will undoubtedly kite you, laugh at you and feed you to her team without breaking a sweat. Shoulda chosen a mobility champ, oh well.

Silents429Feb 21, 20151 votes

I think you are misunderstanding my statement, If I am a tank, and going after kalista and she is kiting away, then she isn't in that team fight, that is an ADC gone, that is crippling to the enemy team to have a main source of damage gone. If she is kiting around the fight she WILL get CC'ed, if she is jumping back away then I as a tank am doing my job of disruption, I am preventing her from wrecking havoc on my team.

Yes in most situations her passive is bullshit, and I am not saying the above justifies it, but she isn't impossible to deal with, and her greatest strength right now can become her weakness. And if she wants to pull her passive buddy from the team fight too just to stop me then I say let her 4v3 is fun too.

If I were to give her any nerf it would be lowering her attack range to at least Sivirs level if not more.

ThefriendlyorcFeb 21, 20151 votes

If she is outrageously out of position, it makes no difference, the amount of ground she will cover wont make a difference how far you 'push her' out of a teamfight. Mobility is so damned frustrating to fight against that it just becomes a demoralizing 1 sided endeavor. 'Oh, cool, I ganked her from behind, she....kited around me and took half my hp away...and now I'm out of position and likely collapsed on...' or 'Oh I caught her, no one is nearby and after my cc wears off I'm never going to escape her and likely die eventually. Now theres no peel for MY adc.' I just played a game against a VI and a Nidalee and no one could touch them because at the first sign of danger DASH DASH DASH DASH ALREADY AT BASE BUYING NEW ITEMS LOLZ LCS PLAYZ

I just dont think I can keep playing this game anymore.

Silents429Feb 21, 20151 votes

You are broadening this to mobility in general. And I care not for that. I was just pointing out exploitable flaws in how Kalista is being played right now.

Potato DocFeb 19, 20151 votes

When I read the first 3 lines my mind instantly thought of pokemon

KaisadiIIaFeb 19, 20151 votes

Wild Kalista appeared! Kalista used Extreme speed! Your Ashe fainted...

ReikkenFeb 19, 20151 votes

If you're bad at landing skillshots on Kalista, just pick someone with a point and click disable. Annie, Lulu, Ryze, Taric, etc...

Seriously, it's really easy

KaisadiIIaFeb 19, 20152 votes

Shhh, don't tell them there are still point-and-click CC in this game or RIOT will come and remove it...

Xela SyabFeb 19, 20151 votes

Hecarim and Mao has no trouble catchin kalista.

WhiskeyAgogoFeb 19, 20151 votes

Chasing Kalista reminds me of that Mario Party game where you have to catch the chicken... it's like slightly faster, and just jumps sideways. Except this one shoots darts and shit at you while you are TRYING to get anywhere near it.