I dont know about you guys but im sick of Assassins in nearly every lane.

HandheldBrandon··8 votes·1,811 views

First things first I would be interested in anyone's personal opinions and if they feel like they have more solid concrete ideas on how to properly deal with this Assassin problem i would love to hear it so i can bring it up to my theory crafting group and share it with them because we live for this kind of stuff when we get together to talk.

Also most of this is my opinion as well so take that into consideration when you post instead of just insulting me like a child would when someone disagrees with them.

Seriously the only lane Assassins don't regularly go in is bot lane and even then i see leblanc supports every now and then that do well.

You all can keep complaining about Kalista and her mobility meanwhile Assassins continue to dominate mid/top/jungle

Don't believe me.

Nidalee jungle Zed Mid Rengar top

Or

Ahri mid Khazix jungle Akali top.

Seriously every game game i go into its a Zed or a leblanc or a Nidalee or a Katarina. You know what the problem with Assassins is?

Their entire playstyles are built upon no counterplay kits. Burst

Burst is the problem with Assassins because burst by its design is made to kill an enemy before they can react. Without the ability to react there is no counterplay and the burst in league can get pretty astounding sometimes. I had a Nidalee spear in one of my games hit me for 965 damage at max range as a top lane tank maokai with a spirit Visage. Not only that but then she jumped in and did around 420 damage with her cougar form. If i had been a squishy or slightly less tankier i would have been dead instantly. Know why Nidalee jungle is a thing now?

Remember awhile ago when Riot said they wanted to make it so Nid's spears couldn't just chunk you from out of nowhere? They wanted people to see the spears coming and be able to dodge if they were quick enough. Throw Nidalee in the jungle and suddenly you got a long range hyper nuke flying out of a bush and then a flying thundercat chomping your face off. They literally moved Nid's spear hucking burst from the lane where it was most counterable to the jungle where we now have the same problem as before where she is throwing spears and people don't see them until its too late.

I don't even need to mention Zed.

Riot say's hes balanced but im sorry any champion that forces any and all opposing laners into a specific item as fast as they can just so they can hopefully survive his level 6 power spike is unhealthy no matter how you look it.

AOE waveclear Huge safety net. Great poke. Amazing all in Execute style passive. Multiple dashes.

Zed has it all and yet hes "balanced".

You know what kept Zed in check before.

AOE farm/push champs that could wave clear better than him and keep him at his turret. Riot removed that factor when they nerfed mana regen across the board and of course the only logical out come was that Zed would get better and i fail to see how Riot couldn't have noticed this when I and several of my theory crafting friends saw it coming from a god damn mile away.

Leblanc is Leblanc annoying and hyper mobile.

Katarina is just plain stupid.

AOE poke with Q and AOE clear on Q and W means even though shes melee she can still farm with the best of them just not as well as Zed can. Her level 6 is also pretty silly but not quite as bad as the rest. The problem with Katarina is when she gets a kill or two she hyper snowballs into one of the most vicious assassins with some of the most brutal burst and she will only continue to get stronger and stronger and stronger with each and every kill until she ends games by herself. If she doesn't snowball herself then shes not too bad.

Rengar

Not only does he have some really insane burst but hes also pretty damn tanky to boot and has one of the most abusive laning phases (If he lanes) in the game. His entire laning phase is all about abusing his passive in and out of the bushes and if someone even comes near the creeps and they are close enough to be leaped on he will leap on them spam every thing he has and then either heal up and walk away or slow/stun/burst you. The only way i have found to successfully deal with a rengar lane is to make sure to pull the creeps as far from the bushes as you can when they come into lane. Pull his creeps away from the bushes and your creeps will follow and suddenly he can no longer abuse his passive leap. My problem with him is that hes tanky on top of his burst which im pretty sure is one of the primary reasons people complaing about VI/Lee Sin/Jarvan in that they can be tanky and put out some super wtf damage at a moments notice.

Shaco is another jungle assassin but i find him more annoying than anything.

Fizz

I have seen this god damn blue frog go in every lane but bot and do well. Hell i watched Night blue the other day completely dominate a match as AD jungle fizz. His E either needs to have its god damn cooldown increased or they need to flat out remove all of his slows that he has because not only does he have a leap on a 8 second cooldown at max rank but he also has huge HUGE burst (100 percent AD scaling on his Q that also applies on hit affects) but he has a multitude of slows both of which are above 50 percent slows.

To sum up my feelings you cant have Assassin be synonymous with poke/mobility/all in/burst. You can't you pick 2 and then you find creative ways to make them do those 2 things. You don't give them all of them and then make them slightly weaker because then you get overloaded kits which do a bit of everything either really well or extremely mediocre.

IMO Riot is going to end up nerfing Nidalee again simply because her Kit in its current state cannot be balanced. She is an Assassin with 2 kits one that emphasizes huge poke and sustain and another that emphasizes mobility and all in burst. She has literally everything she could want in a kit split up into 2 kits.

If i were to balance Nidalee I would take the power out of human form and put more of it into cougar form and i would remove her heal because she doesn't need it. I would probably change her heal to something that fits more in line with her being raised by cougars such as her summoning a cougar to bite an enemy and slow them or some such thing. Next i would remove the god damn health percent shred on her W because whoever thought we needed that when we already have enough of it was a fool. There was zero reason to tack this on because literally thats all it is is just tacked on for the hell of it.

If i were to balance Zed i would start with his ultimate and his ability to dash to hit from any range. Thats gone i don't care thats one of the dumbest aspect of his kits. Next i would bump up the cooldown on his Q and have the cooldown be reduced for each champion hit with his Q. That way he has to decide if he wants to use it to wave clear or to poke but i would have it scale down with level and possibly lower the energy cost to compensate for the increased cooldown at lower levels and by doing this change you reward Zed players for using their Q against other players rather than just herpaderp farming earlier.

Or i could take the easy road and basically reduce the damage his Q does to minions or just flat out remove the shadow aspect of Q doing damage to minions but das lazy and not very fun.

If i were to balance Fizz the only change i would make is to his E and give it a higher cooldown because his kit is already pretty good except for his E which is the one thing that is completely out of line IMO.

Not even sure how i would touch Katarina or Leblanc since i have no idea how i would truly. You can't exactly fix a hyper snowbally Assassin without drastically modifying how they work and honestly there isn't that much wrong with her Kit other than when she does snowball she gets out of hand incredibly fast which is not something i think i would know how to deal with and the only way to Fix Leblanc IMO is to drastically rework her because no matter what they do to her unless they absolutely gut her her kit will always be super annoying to deal with.

End rant/rage.

I would be interested in anyone's personal opinions and if they feel like they have more solid concrete ideas on how to properly deal with this Assassin problem i would love to hear it so i can bring it up to my theory crafting group and share it with them.

20 Comments

Reynard the ƒox8 votes

I like, literally never see Rengar or Kha'Zix. I stopped reading after that point.

IcyPepper1 votes

Doesn't that just support the notion of a problem in balancing?

HandheldBrandon2 votes

I don't see them quite as much as Kat/Leb/Zed/Fizz but i do see them Kha not quite as much as Rengar but i personally dislike Rengar because he is an Assassin whose more akin to a bruiser and behaves like a bruiser with the burst of an Assassin. Kha actually had that problem awhile ago too before they nerfed him into the ground.

Jaygo413 votes

My favorite thing to do against a team of full assassins is play group CC heavy junglers, like sejuani or jarvan or amumu... you can completely dick a whole team and peel well for your carries.

it's all about strategic diversity mang, how do you solve the problem of a bunch of squishy damage dealers? tanks with bomb ass CC

60cG25XEnH2 votes

I honestly just hate katarina with a passion.

WeAreAlpharius1 votes

I have no issues with assassins. I'm more sad myself. They nerfed all assassins even if that means that they gave them a "nerf" like what they did with zed. But the 2 main assassins i saw and played myself were absolutely neutered in their normal AP forms. Fizz just got a transfer to AD and everyone loves him except me and kassadin... well... kassadin. I never had much of an issue with assassins in the first place. I play mages, both mobile and immobile and the only champion that ever gave me a single bother was Leblanc because she doesn't trade, she gets free damage off on you with small mana costs. But that changes when she gets a morello. Literally playing every mid from Azir to Ziggs , i haven't run into too many people that can play assassins with these overloaded kits (such as zed) effectively to where i have had a full blown rage session.

HandheldBrandon1 votes

The only thing about fizz that is the problem of me is his E. Everything else imo is actually quite good but his E is just too low. It allows him to get out of impossible situations and forces people to try and force him to blow his E at the wrong time which even then it's on a low enough cool down to allow him to use it again very quickly. Imagine if Vlad pool had that low of a cool down people scream all day long to nerd that shit.

WeAreAlpharius1 votes

AD fizz has the tradeoff of maxing E last. i believe it has a 13 second cd at level 1. Early levels against him as a weak laner makes it very easy for him to have to burn it early. on top of the fact that it is the most expensive spell in his kit (120 mana at level 5) and since he has a very low mana pool, it makes him have to think about how he uses it a lot more since he can't just blow it willy-nilly and have no tradeoff. sure, he becomes mobile, but it's at a third of his mana pool at level 2. I was a Fizz main in mid lane before the nerfs happened and most of what i'm saying is probably still salt from what happened way back in that patch.

SouL1ess1 votes

AP Fizz got destroyed with his nerfs. People transferring to his off-build actually increased Fizz's weekly winrate.

WeAreAlpharius1 votes

I know i'm gonna get a ton of shit for this, but i really want for them to revert Fizz "nerfs". He was really the only assassin i enjoyed playing at all. Zed is boring because he is a playmaker, but he can only make plays once every few minutes at early levels, and i don't find split pushing and hoping for someone not tanky to come and fight me to insta them. Leblanc is just kinda cheap with her damage mid game after her core. Rengar is fun, but takes a while to do his "real" damage. Khazix was only fun for me when he could go mid and actually be useful, or for that matter, just be useful without a forced snowball. Now the only "assassin" i enjoy is Diana because you can snowball in a similar way to fizz on her i've found.

HandheldBrandon1 votes

I have to disagree i found Fizz to be far more cheap than Leblanc simply because if he landed Fish the fight was his no matter what. If you managed to out play him and then try and throw the killing blow. NOPE trollpole away and since trollpole breaks projectiles and targeting he can now instantly turn around and wtf damage you. Least Leblanc doesn't have anything that breaks projectiles and target and abilities on a 6 second cooldown.

Silents4291 votes

I really don't ever see assassins much anymore, occasional Zed, but they got rid of Nid's retarded execute, no one really plays Rengar top. Idk. I mean I get you hate them, but they are balanced, maybe not if your squishy and vulnerable, but any CC will shut them down.

HandheldBrandon1 votes

If by Nid's execute you mean her cougar Q then no they didn't get rid of it its still there and if the target is hit by a spear or a trap then the damage to that target is increased on top of that execute.

Sooko1 votes

It makes me chuckle when assassin mains claim that assassins are dying nowadays. They clearly haven't seen the continuous nerfs to mages until this last patch.

If we look at ban rates, out of the 15 most banned champions, the majority of them are (either primarily or secondarily) assassins, be them tanky assassins, or squishy ones, all of the banned champions have mobility, and the only actual tank in the list is Hecarim (considering Jarvan usually plays the role of a bruiser)

Lets take a look at the "usual" assassins: Nidalee Leblanc Zed Katarina Fizz Riven Rengar

Then we have the "occasional" assassins who aren't meant to be played as such unless they get ahead (which is very possible considering they aren't weak at all): Irelia Vi Ahri

10/15 of the most banned champions are either assassins or can incorporate their playstyle in their kit. I think that this is mainly due to the fact that CC is getting less and less punishing. In favor of "counterplay", all CC must have a delay, which means hypermobile assassins can get in and out unscratched, while dishing out enough damage to be useful. Not to mention most mobiliy lacks counterplay anyway asides from more mobility, that is why these champions are so banned right now.

DrCyanide1 votes

It's not healthy to stun an enemy, let them see death coming, then kill them (Veigar )

Yet it's completely healthy to kill a champion as fast as you can dash to them (Leblanc Nidalee Katarina Akali - admittedly I haven't seen Akali since her nerf)

It's most healthy to laugh as you are untargetable for 0.75 seconds, dash to your opponent, spam your spells, then dash away and have them die after you leave (Zed )


That said, Shaco's my jungler of choice right now, so I'm guilty of furthering the Assassin agenda.

My current theory is that Shaco's annoying for different reasons. He takes your jungle, he stealth-dashes as you try and chase him, he stealths up on you the moment you're low health, he solos dragons, he plants CC boxes around, etc.... but he is the assassin that's least likely to 100-0 you. He seems to be more about strategy than just press QWER as fast as you can (which seems to be what the other assassins do).

I'd argue that Shaco's healthier, but more annoying over a match. It's really an odd combination.

HandheldBrandon4 votes

I agree i find Shaco to be a healthy Assassin.

He's incredibly hard to catch To compensate hes incredibly squishy

He has some scary surprise damage but if he cant get close enough he loses the guaranteed crit from Q.

He has a bunch of obvious weaknesses and that to me is completely healthy. Not this tank melting multiple blinking spammable low cooldown burst damage extravaganza Riot has going on.

Troy2426211 votes

That's because Shaco assassinates one person, and he cannot go in, blow them up and then teleport back out. >.>.

Skoonie1 votes

Not really, thought that's because I main Mordekaiser, who shits all over most assassins in lane.

goldensilver091 votes

As a top laner who uses Tanks Sion for example, i don't care about assasins, izi lane (Unless is the Fish Fizz ) That dude is just annoying.

HandheldBrandon1 votes

So you don't care about assassins but you find an assassin annoying?

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