So yeah... Isn't this time to re-introduce Mana Potions back into the game?

SEKAI··4 votes·840 views

For some reason, Riot thought it'd be a great idea to have no dedicated mana potions in the game. Currently the only consumable mana regen option in the game from what I know is just Corrupting Potion (yeah Total Biscuit of Rejuvenation, if you put in the mastery/keystone, gives mana too, but only for like literally 15).

Now think for a moment, why do we still keep big red Health Potion when there are other consumable health regen items to gun for, such as Refillable Potion and its upgraded version, Corrupting Potion? That's right, because Health Potion is the dedicated HP regen consumable (each Corrupting Potion charge heals less than each Health Potion), that and because you don't have to fork out that big fat cash right at the front to grab the package thus you can pay for your lane regen incrementally and only when you need/desire it (1 single Corruption Potion costs the same as 10 individual Health Potions).

Then there is no dedicated consumable mana regen in lane, as Mana Potion was removed. Oh yeah Crystalline Flask was a thing too, I remember, and I recall that Riot got rid of it too.

This creates a problem. Outside of the fact all mana-centric users could potentially run into mana-starving situation, there is another bigger and far worse problem that would arise: That Riot would eventually balance the game around little to no or straight up no mana management.

Why is it such a big problem? Well, because mana exists as a gate-keep for spell users, together with CD. It restricts their spell use, but on the other hand it also means their spell power can be a bit creative and/or powerful considering you've got 2 gates to keep them in line. So why do you think removing balance elements is gonna make the game easier to balance or more balanced?

..................

Hell, before we head into all that, just consider this: What would you feel if there is no more Health Potion to purchase? It'll feel pretty bad for many of us ain't that right? Cool, there's the reason why we need Mana Potion back.

13 Comments

Shiznyte2 votes

Mana pots were lame. Champions with expensive skills would just stack up mana pots so they wouldn't have to back and farm with only skills. No mana pots means people have to manage mana which is a nice mechanic IMO

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

Mana pots were lame. Champions with expensive skills would just stack up mana pots so they wouldn't have to back and farm with only skills. No mana pots means people have to manage mana which is a nice mechanic IMO

So are Health Potions, Corrupting Potions, etc lame because people can use it to sustain in lane and jungle?

**EDIT: **I mean, considering your argument of "Champions with expensive skills would just stack up mana pots": We don't restrict high HP and high sustain characters from purchasing Health Potions, like why would you (if you actually agree that we should ban Health Potions on high sustain characters, then by upscaling that logic we will need to get rid of the item system entirely because abusing the advantages and scaling of your champ as well as mitigating your weaknesses/rough-edges is the entire point of items; which that would be a TERRIBLE idea), but why is it somehow justified when it's about Mana potions?

EDIT2: As I've also elaborated upon, Mana Potions ENCOURAGE mana management, both mechanically and in terms of design/balance. It's getting rid of consumable Mana Potions that makes for less managements as the game would be forced to balance around the fact almost all spell casters are mana-hungry as fuck.

Shiznyte3 votes

I don't Want a GP grabbing 3 mana pots and farming in lane safely using only his skills. Learning to Farm with AA's and wave management is an important mechanic, and mana pots took that away because you can just spam skills to be safe. That's why they removed them in the first place. if you want a mana pot grab a Dark seal and then use corrupting potion or build the Mana regan items.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

I don't Want a GP grabbing 3 mana pots and farming in lane safely using only his skills. Learning to Farm with AA's and wave management is an important mechanic, and mana pots took that away because you can just spam skills to be safe. That's why they removed them in the first place. if you want a mana pot grab a Dark seal and then use corrupting potion or build the Mana regan items.

This makes no sense.

So if I buy a bunch of Health Potions and play the lane safely since I have a shit ton of sustain, or so I think. Is that a problem, and that means we should get rid of HP consumables almost entirely?

I mean, you can just purchase HP items, resistence items, lifesteal items, or whatever if you want sustain, right? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

If someone is doing too much with too little mana cost and/or too little CD, you increase either of them or both if you have to. Or re-balance the amount provided by the Mana Potions if you really have to. But who the fuck thought it'd be a great idea to remove almost the entire concept of mana consumables from this game as a response to someone who may be spamming spells a bit too much?

As I've said a few times before, the almost complete lack of consumable Mana Potions throttles both game design and balance in more ways than one, and none of which is good.

Shiznyte2 votes

Riot doesn't wan't you spamming skills its literally that simple, idk if i can break it down any simpler... stop wasting mana on CS and use it to trade with champions or save it for when you need it. STOP SPAMMING SKILLS lol

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

Riot doesn't wan't you spamming skills its literally that simple, idk if i can break it down any simpler... stop wasting mana on CS and use it to trade with champions or save it for when you need it. STOP SPAMMING SKILLS lol

You're literally saying tanks stacking sustain is a bad thing. Or attack champs stacking damage is a bad thing. Or defensive-offensive items on tankier champs is the bad thing. Or Offensive-defensive items on attack champs is a bad thing. Or early pots on squisher champs is a bad thing. Or early pots on tankier champs is a bad thing. Etc etc.

Or the entire concept of item is a bad thing.

And this is what happens when we upscale the logic you use to justify why Mana Potion is not needed; you will be forced to admit that the entire concept of item, which exists solely to forward your advantage and mitigate your rough edges, is not needed, which is just wrong.

Again, there is a difference between balancing Mana Potions, and getting rid of it. The latter makes no rational sense, as you've also demonstrated in your attempted justification.

**EDIT: **Also, as I've said multiple times already, which you simply do not get for some reason. Making all spell champs mana-starved, especially when AA attackers and mana-less champs are around, is not going to make for encouraging them to be more mana-managing; all it does is that the game will be pressured into making it more "mana-free" as mana champs are slowly transitioned to be closer to mana-less designs or else they all be come trashed and useless. And that is terrible either way. Hence we NEED Mana Potions.

Shiznyte3 votes

Champions like Syndra with Mana pots never had to build Mana regan and could snowball out of control by only building Damage. The mana pot removal was designed to make low CD champions have to build mana in order to stay in lane. Now she has to build items like lost chapter in order to stay in lane and it was a nerf to her over all power without nerfing her damage. Mana pots were removed in order to keep champions honest. There was a reason riot did it and there's a reason why the change stuck. it was a buff to manaless champs i agree, but they we're the problem at one time. The also changed the mana costs of quite a few champions in reworks (urgot is a good example) in order to make up for the lack of mana pots. Most skills that cost mana hit way harder than mana-less skills do so that is the trade off. I would recommend you play Mana-less champions if you don't like the fact that you have to manage you mana now.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

Champions like Syndra with Mana pots never had to build Mana regan and could snowball out of control by only building Damage. The mana pot removal was designed to make low CD champions have to build mana in order to stay in lane. Now she has to build items like lost chapter in order to stay in lane and it was a nerf to her over all power without nerfing her damage. Mana pots were removed in order to keep champions honest. There was a reason riot did it and there's a reason why the change stuck. it was a buff to manaless champs i agree, but they we're the problem at one time. The also changed the mana costs of quite a few champions in reworks (urgot is a good example) in order to make up for the lack of mana pots. Most skills that cost mana hit way harder than mana-less skills do so that is the trade off. I would recommend you play Mana-less champions if you don't like the fact that you have to manage you mana now.

"The mana pot removal was designed to make low CD champions have to build mana in order to stay in lane. "

Which can be solved by simply increasing their mana cost (or maybe their CD, but I guess if they were intended to be low CD then it's a different scenario).

There is no reason to outright remove mana potions, none.

Removing mana pots not only does NOT promote mana management, it also screws up mana/spell budgeting and all future design of spells in a very big and bad way, both as I've touched on multiple times already.

Shiznyte3 votes

Agree to Disagree I guess. Good luck trying to get them back I'm pretty sure they are gone for good! [slayer-jinx-catface]

The Last Ballad1 votes

Kleptomancy After casting a spell, your next attack grants bonus gold. There's a chance you'll also gain a consumable.

It was noted in the Runes stream that the "consumable" loot list includes any consumable that has existed in the history of League(removed items are at the bottom under the item list "other" tab). Including mana potions, elixir of ruin, explorer wards, and Oracle's elixir(the loot from previous parts of league's past are not limited to just those, but they were the ones called out)

So yes, they are adding mana potions back, in a roundabout way.

Also the "Biscuit delivery" rune gives a biscuit that restores 15% health and mana(or 20% health if no mana) every 3 minutes till the 12 minute mark.

SEKAI1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Last Ballad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ve0cVwnO,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-09-28T21:04:22.473+0000)

It was noted in the Runes stream that the "consumable" loot list includes any consumable that has existed in the history of League(removed items are at the bottom under the item list "other" tab). Including mana potions, elixir of ruin, explorer wards, and Oracle's elixir(the loot from previous parts of league's past are not limited to just those, but they were the ones called out)

So yes, they are adding mana potions back, in a roundabout way.

Also the "Biscuit delivery" rune gives a biscuit that restores 15% health and mana(or 20% health if no mana) every 3 minutes till the 12 minute mark.

Good news is good.

Khristophoros1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Last Ballad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ve0cVwnO,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-09-28T21:04:22.473+0000)

It was noted in the Runes stream that the "consumable" loot list includes any consumable that has existed in the history of League(removed items are at the bottom under the item list "other" tab). Including mana potions, elixir of ruin, explorer wards, and Oracle's elixir(the loot from previous parts of league's past are not limited to just those, but they were the ones called out)

So yes, they are adding mana potions back, in a roundabout way.

Also the "Biscuit delivery" rune gives a biscuit that restores 15% health and mana(or 20% health if no mana) every 3 minutes till the 12 minute mark.

What about BAG OF TEA???

VoraciousX1 votes

Honestly you can spam skills more now than you could when mana pots were a thing. Every single first buy on mid lane has mana sustain in it now. So while I would like to see mana pots back, it'd just make spells more spammy than they were before. But also for those arguing that Riot doesn't want you spamming spells: why is it that every single first item buy has mana sustain in it? Lol. Gimme a item 3010 ,item 3070 , or a item 3802 and it takes a while to run out of mana.

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