What if Garen could not be slowed past a fixed amount while Q...

LegenDariusGaren··17 votes·2,229 views

Garen has a base movement speed of 340. When he activate Q, Garen breaks free of all slows affecting him and gains 30% movement speed for 1.5/2/2.5/3/3.5 seconds. His next basic attack within 4.5 seconds deals ...

What if while the speed boost was activated, Garen could not be slowed past a fixed amount. Say his base movement speed. However, any additional movement speed buffs would interact as if he had the slower movement speed. This includes things like the passive of Dead Man's Plate etc.

Another version would be that Garen cannot be slowed beyond 330/332/335/337/340 movement speed while the speed boost portion of his Q is activated.

Ideally, this would be put onto his Q. However, if deemed too strong in the early game, it can be put on E. Currently, Garen maxes Q over E for the bonus movement speed and upfront damage on Q. If this change is put onto E, and if Garen is maxing Q, then he will have the longer duration of the movement speed. However, his movement speed floor would be at 330 instead of closer to 340. This change allows Garen to decide on the upfront damage and speed boost duration of Q or how much he is willing to be slowed down to.

Now to look at this buff as both the enemy and as Garen.

As Garen, you still want to bait their slow before you use your Q. Often times, you use Ghostblade active and bait the slow, and then you proceed to use Q. So it is not that effective in that sense. However, if you do use your Q, and then get slowed, you will still be left with ideally your base movement speed.

As the enemy, Garen can still be kited with a movement speed of 340. Think about a Garen with no boots and his Q down. Very easy to kite still.

31 Comments

Big Lincoln19 votes

what if garen turned slows into extra movement speed because your attempts to fight his justice only make him stronger????

LegenDariusGaren1 votes

That would be broken. Lee comes to gank you and you just casually walk past him as he speeds you up with red buff and his E.

Big Lincoln13 votes

justice cannot be slowed

LegenDariusGaren4 votes

Unless you live in the USA.

Big Lincoln1 votes

i dont get it

LegenDariusGaren1 votes

I am referring to the judicial system of the USA. Justice is slowed by the constant appeals.

Auz the Ripper1 votes

Appeals do not slow justice,** They purify it!**

Calabok5 votes

yea lets make Garen broken and nobody can stop him. YEA LETS*[zombie-brand-facepalm]*

Critmaster Garen3 votes

if they were to buff his q, id be thankful if they gave him his animation cancel mechanics back.

i want to be able to trade with

auto attack > q aa reset > animation cancel the q > auto attack > spin animation cancel the auto attack again.

that would at least be a buff to experienced garen players.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vZyeAFLR,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-12-14T02:15:28.858+0000)

if they were to buff his q, id be thankful if they gave him his animation cancel mechanics back.

i want to be able to trade with

auto attack > q aa reset > animation cancel the q > auto attack > spin animation cancel the auto attack again.

that would at least be a buff to experienced garen players.

+1, darius has quite a few animation cancels so I see no reason why garen cant have a few for those willing to learn and master them. It's the juggernaut's only real defense against quick trade champs like riven and renekton.

Darius has

AA > W > Q > E > AA

The W cancels the AA animation, the Q cancels the W animation, the E right after has an awkward anim cancel that makes it go a teeeeeeeny bit faster and the AA at the end is just an AA hehe xD

LegenDariusGaren1 votes

That does not really address Garen's problem though. I have no problem currently using AA Q E tiamat active and disengage. Garen just got shred on his E, so I do not think that RIot will look to his animation cancelling. However, a fixed floor on his movement speed while Q is active does address his problems while not making him "oppressive".

ShaolinToilet1 votes

Who ever maxes garens q first

DunkinNoobs1 votes

It's the correct call in some matchups, particularly against more mobile lane opponents.

LegenDariusGaren1 votes

It is the correct call in every match up actually.

Hahahahyena3 votes

unless they give him a well deserved damage nerf he shouldnt be buffed in any way

Critmaster Garen8 votes

{quoted}

unless they give him a well deserved damage nerf he shouldnt be buffed in any way

well, this should be entertaining.

why do you think he deserves a damage nerf?

Drahcir4 votes

because of his broken as fuck free mr and armor and health regen passive. . . . . . . . Kappa

Shaco my BFF2 votes

Garen needs a rework and nothing more.

Right now his Q makes him win every trade, simply because enemy will be silenced for entire time (Wasn't that the reason LB and Kassadin had their silences removed? eh).

Now that they added the bonus 25% armor penetration on E, he's pretty busted, if played right. I saw one Garen in a punch of games and he just DESTROYED everything with BC + flat tank items.

Oh, not to mention the villain mechanics.

LegenDariusGaren4 votes

Garen does not win every trade. He loses to so many melee matchups.

Shaco my BFF1 votes

Which champions are you talking about? How can he lose when enemies aren't even allowed to retaliate with abilities?

LegenDariusGaren5 votes

Darius, Fiora, Trundle, Renekton, Jax, Camille, among others, off the top of my head. They outdamage him easily.

Shaco my BFF1 votes

Fiora is only one who can trade back, when she blocks Garen's Q. Others are ability based and that silence screws them over.

LegenDariusGaren2 votes

Garen Q makes his sword glow. Press W as renekton everytime you see Garen press his Q. Trundle presses Q as well. Then you proceed to auto attack a slowed or stunned Garen. As Irelia, press W and auto attack him until silence wears off. Then you chase him down and use your E. As Darius, you can auto attack and W before Garen's Q lands. So you walk with him and keep using your auto attacks as he is slowed. Then you use Q, and then pull him towards you with 5 bleed stacks as you chunk half his HP. So many champs have similar patterns.

Shaco my BFF1 votes

are you high? Garen's Q doesn't have multiple second "channel" like you make it to be.

LegenDariusGaren2 votes

Do you even Garen bro? Or rather, do you even play top? Garen's Q has a cast time. I can show you how easy it is to out trade him with any champ that has an auto attack reset in a custom match.

Shaco my BFF1 votes

you can auto-Q reset on Garen, which makes his Q almost instant. For someone to cancel his Q mid "cast" time with auto resets, they'd have to be scripting. Even Renekton has animation "cast" time on his stun. Doesn't mean he can't proc it.

Not to mention you can E -> Trigger Q during E and when E finishes, he instantly Q's the target.

You're making Garen to be one of a kind handicapped champion, which he isn't.

Wimbledofy1 votes

Garen maxed E mainly, not Q.

LegenDariusGaren2 votes

Garen's E scales more with ticks than with points in it. The upfront damage on Q is comparable to the damage increase that E does over 3 seconds. So you get more damage upfront and you can disengage before the silence wears off. I had a post showing the math on how Q max is superior.

Wimbledofy1 votes

maybe Q is better to max, but in general garens max E. Probuilds, most guides on mobafire and op.gg all show garens maxing E first.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

I don't think he needs more help at the moment, but it's an interesting buff idea for the future.

Sire Hippington1 votes

Imo they should just remove the amrorpen from E again(it's really not the kind of power garen needs) and therefor give him the tenacity on W back and maybe some slow resist on Q.

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