Riot's argument towards countering Katarina.

Scrimshäw·Mar 15, 2015·15 votes·2,870 views

71 Comments

BobbyCarHaterXMar 15, 201516 votes

So her only counter is cc? Thats it? wow, she sure is broken as riven`s sword

MrPerson10Mar 15, 201510 votes

Yes, that's her counter.

long range hard CC/interrupts or a tanky hard engage with CC. Remember, her R is channeled and thusly she has to stand still or cancel it to avoid CC.

Amumu Alistar Cassiopeia Annie Braum Chogath Lissandra Leona Lux Malphite Maokai Malzahar Morgana Orianna Sejuani Shen Singed Sion Soraka Taric Thresh Tristana TwistedFate Udyr Vayne Viktor Volibear Warwick MonkeyKing Zyra

every single one of these champs (and more) have a way to shut her down with ease.

Malix FarwinMar 15, 20151 votes

By that logic any OP champ can get counter by CC (including nidalee) so why nerf anything at all because CC counters them

MrPerson10Mar 15, 20154 votes

Not true at all.

Most "OP" champs, which let's be real - there are none. Yes, you can chainlock anyone to death - but will that really help you? Probably not.

You hit Kat with 1 form of CC after her combo and let your AoE damage take care of her, she dies awfully fast. No reset + squishy = dead Kat.

CrettMar 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Not true at all.

Most "OP" champs, which let's be real - there are none

Leblanc just one

MrPerson10Mar 16, 20151 votes

LeBlanc problems? Play safer. Play with CC. Play Katarina, shut her off early.

CrettMar 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

LeBlanc problems? Play safer. Play with CC. Play Katarina, shut her off early.

her problem isn't that she's unbeatable; it is plenty possible to beat her, but she is an astoundingly low counterplay champion, which can be fine in some cases but not with all that god danged mobility

MrPerson10Mar 16, 20151 votes

Other mobile assassins do extremely well against her when both played at an equal skill level.

Yasuo Diana Fizz Katarina all do extremely well against her when played to equal levels. Yes, I'm aware Malzahar doesn't fit into the mobile assassin category - doesn't stop him from doing well.

SociopathFriendMar 16, 20151 votes

Malzahar counters just about every assassin in the game so long as he survives the starting burst. As soon as you're within his range you're essentially delivering a kill to him on a silver platter.

I love Riot's advice for how to deal with Malz- "Make sure you have enough health to survive a round of his spells" Cracks me up every time

Leti the YetiMar 16, 20151 votes

idk, chainlocking someone to death sounds immensely helpful

MrPerson10Mar 16, 20151 votes

You blow all your CC on one champion, now you lack CC for the other 4 who are about to lock down your own carries.

Leti the YetiMar 16, 20151 votes

and so what? they're just doing that exact same thing you just did to kat

you blew up their carry, and now theyre about to blow up yours using the same method??? wao, how shocking!

MrPerson10Mar 16, 20151 votes

Not at all. You chainlock kat, she dies.

Now you have no CC, the enemy can simply use hard CC your frontline bruiser/tank with the CC and charge your back line without issue, using soft CC on your carries.

Leti the YetiMar 16, 20152 votes

so lemme get this straight

you DONT use your cc.. now kat kills you you USE your cc, now kat doesnt kill you but everyone else does

wut the fuck do you propose?

MrPerson10Mar 16, 20151 votes

I propose first you learn how to read, then learn how to manage your CC as was stated. One form of hard CC after her Shunpo kills her potential. Having a problem and can't CC well? Oh that's cool. summoner 3 There ya go.

Leti the YetiMar 16, 20151 votes

dont even care anymore .- . in actual application, everything just works out I dont care about the theories behind it cuz its not even close to accurate

MrPerson10Mar 16, 20151 votes

You're hilarious. Are you really trying to tell me, a current Platinum I Katarina main, how to the methods of countering the champion I've mained for 2 seasons solid (and went from Bronze 3 - Diamond IV in Season 4 with) are "not even close to accurate?"

Right.

Leti the YetiMar 16, 20151 votes

I'm not saying cc'ing katarina isnt an accurate counter to her just I dont like discussing the hypothetical situations... partially yes, hypothesizing is rarely ever accurate for what happens in actuality - see field of science

cuz really, in our own minds... we dont share the exact situation, yet we're trying to convince each other that the image they have in each other's mind is wrong despite not knowing wutever the hell it is

also, lets not pull the "I'm plat therefore I'm right" card thats a real low blow and I would rather have you continue proving your points with your claims than to do that

show dont tell

MrPerson10Mar 16, 20151 votes

I'm not saying she isn't difficult to consistently and accurately CC. I am saying it also isn't nearly the hardest thing to do, given she has only one blink which requires a kill or assist to reset - making her heavily predictable. A good Kat is going to be patient and able to understand who to target (no, that is not always ADC first) and in what order. A great kat is going to be able to execute those flawlessly based on the CC that's already gone out and potential CC threats still existing. Great kats, extremely hard to get around. Good kats, not hard at all.

AraniiMar 15, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Yes, that's her counter.

long range hard CC/interrupts or a tanky hard engage with CC. Remember, her R is channeled and thusly she has to stand still or cancel it to avoid CC.

every single one of these champs (and more) have a way to shut her down with ease.

Perhaps I'm being overly picky, but at least three of those champs (Lux, Morg, and Vayne) can't easily shut her down. Lux has no hard CC, Morg's stun won't complete until Kat's ult is complete, and I may be wrong, but in my last few games, Vayne will only stop the ult if she stuns into a wall. This could very well be a bug though.

However, if people pick smart during ranked, they can pick a comp with enough instant CC to stop Kat every time. This doesn't work in blind pick, but the game shouldn't be balanced around blind pick.

LankPantsMar 15, 20153 votes

There's a few more on his list than just that.

Uydr's stun is melee range and relies on him running up to her face, which he can't always do, same goes for Voli and Singed.

Cho'gath's, Twisted Fate's, Viktor's and Zyra's stuns are all delayed and aren't good for stopping Kat at all

DrCyanideMar 15, 20155 votes

Viktor can go ult for ult, since his ult on activation cancels channeled abilities.

Baron of BreadMar 15, 201511 votes

Cho's yell works well though.

MrPerson10Mar 15, 20151 votes

Not sure if you're aware, Katarina IS melee range. All of these apply. Let's not forget that an Udyr is going to be able to catch a cat, even with her at 40% CDR - shunpo does not outrun udyr. Cho'Gath has his Silence and knock (q/w) which will both stop Kat short in her tracks. TF is a point and click stun, nothing better for it. Viktor can ult (instant) and/or E which interrupts and stops channeled abilities. Zyra has a skillshot root (e) followed by her ult.

Just using your own examples.

LankPantsMar 15, 20152 votes

Not sure if you're aware, Katarina IS melee range. All of these apply.

Which is great when she goes on you. As an Uydr/Singed/Voli she won't, she'll go on your carries instead at which point your melee ranged stun is super useful.

Cho'Gath has his Silence and knock (q/w) which will both stop Kat short in her tracks.

Yep I fucked up mentioning Cho, forgot about his W somehow.

TF is a point and click stun, nothing better for it.

He does, but it's delayed because of the length of time it takes to lock yellow. If you want you can just double tap W and pray you get yellow before she blows you up, but you quite often get blue or red doing that.

Viktor can ult (instant) and/or E which interrupts and stops channeled abilities.

I didn't even know Vik's ult interrupted channels, I'm really not a Vik player and I don't play champs with channelled abilities often.

Zyra has a skillshot root (e) followed by her ult.

Zyra's squishy enough to probably die before her ult even goes off. Roots do not stop channels.

MrPerson10Mar 16, 20151 votes

Zyra's still likely to have a item 3157 long before she's able to be 100-0'd by Kat, and her ult still goes off regardless of if she's killed - providing a knockup and some moderate damage.

Roots aren't meant to stop her ult from channeling but rather to stop her from bouncing around with Shunpo while you attempt melt her squishy ass.

As TF, you should always have a yellow card ready for when Kat is engaging. A good Kat isn't likely to engage until after you're low - however, you can easily eliminate her with a yellow card/AA/Q/AA combo

As for being melee range, if you aren't in moderate range of your carries and know you're vs a Kat - you're too split up and should revise your playstyle.

NarasimhaMar 15, 20152 votes

Uydr's stun is melee range and relies on him running up to her face, which he can't always do, same goes for Voli and Singed.

You..do know Kat is a melee champion, right?

Cho'gath's, Twisted Fate's, Viktor's and Zyra's stuns are all delayed and aren't good for stopping Kat at all

Zyra doesn't work, and TF is reaction based, but Cho's scream isn't delayed, and Viktor has his ult to interrupt.

bad arcade kittyMar 15, 20153 votes

{quoted}

You..do know Kat is a melee champion, right?

her ult is melee range too? news at 10 lol

NarasimhaMar 16, 20154 votes

If she's using it at max range, then feel free to just walk right out of it. She has to be right next to someone to make sure they don't do that, and that is melee range.

The5lackerMar 16, 20151 votes

If you're being hit by Kat's ult, and you can't reach her with a melee champ, here's a tip:

Take a step to the left. You're out of range. Congrats.

MrPerson10Mar 15, 20151 votes

Not sure if you just started playing or not..

Lux has her Q, keeping Kat stationary. Morgana has her Q and E, Q keeping her stationary and E blocking damage from her ult if used well. Both of these champs also carry a Zhonyas on a regualar basis. Vayne's Condemn (E) is a knock, will always cause channels to stop.

AraniiMar 16, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Not sure if you just started playing or not..

Lux has her Q, keeping Kat stationary. Morgana has her Q and E, Q keeping her stationary and E blocking damage from her ult if used well. Both of these champs also carry a Zhonyas on a regualar basis. Vayne's Condemn (E) is a knock, will always cause channels to stop.

If Lux and Morg are binding Kat when she's already ulting, it's too late. And have you ever tried to hit a slow skillshot like light binding/dark binding on a champ with an instant blink? If you haven't, perhaps you just starting playing yourself.

Black shield doesn't block nearly the damage death lotus hits for. And Zhonya's only protects themselves, not the rest of their team.

Again, I'm not certain if Vayne's condemn is intended to stop her ult every cast. (It seems like it should). All I know is that it hasn't in my last couple games, with both our Vayne and the enemy Kat commenting on it.

Guy Fox TeemoMar 15, 20151 votes

Lux's is q is hard cc, morgs q is hard cc, vayne e is hard cc. and every single one of them interrupts kats ult.

straight4freeMar 15, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Lux's is q is hard cc, morgs q is hard cc, vayne e is hard cc. and every single one of them interrupts kats ult.

No, roots do not interrupt channeled abilities. The only exceptions I know of are Teleport and Gate part of TF ult.

Guy Fox TeemoMar 15, 20151 votes

. These are the only champs in game that can't stop katarinas ult: Akali Caitlyn Corki DrMundo Evelynn Ezreal Fiora Gangplank Graves Karthus Kassadin Kayle Khazix KogMaw Lucian MasterYi MissFortune Mordekaiser Nasus Nidalee Nunu Olaf Quinn Rumble Sivir Talon Teemo Tryndamere Twitch Vladimir Yorick Zed Zilean Unless they kill her. so 33 out of the 126? CHamps i believe can't stop kats ult :P she's countered by 93 of them technically.

bad arcade kittyMar 15, 20151 votes

rumble top, akali mid, nidalee jungle, ezreal adc and zilean support a decent team!

Kitten of EvilMar 16, 20151 votes

New Zilean can actually stun, with Q + W + Q.

MrPerson10Mar 16, 20151 votes

If you're being hit by his stun, you're doing it wrong. There's still a delay between his Qs unlike before - you can shunpo out.

Kitten of EvilMar 16, 20151 votes

A Kat ulting is going to get hit by Zil's stun. Period. She can't move while she ults. And if she interrupts her own ult to avoid your stun, then bravo! You've done well regardless.

SookoMar 15, 20152 votes

Actually, Quinn's E can stop a Kat ult, I've seen it.

MrPerson10Mar 16, 20151 votes

It doesn't stop her ult from channeling - it just stops it from hitting, however that requires you to react extremely fast before it's effective.

Helios734Mar 16, 20151 votes

Kassadin's Q stops it also

MrPerson10Mar 16, 20151 votes

Kassadin's Q stops her, yes.

Still wish it was just a straight up silence.

Black Star 1299Mar 16, 20152 votes

Pretty sure it does... (It has saved me millions of teamfights from her)

It is an interrupt after all. I think you're mistaking it for her blind which doesn't affect Kat's ult at all.

One of the best ADCs against Kat.

The5lackerMar 16, 20151 votes

Kassadin Can stop channels with his Q Quinn Can stop channels with her E (Minor knockback) Zilean Has a stun now Also, Jinx , Karma , Lux , Rengar , Ryze , Swain , and Varus all have SNARES, not STUNS. Which only interrupt movement ability related channels, which Kat's is not despite her spinning.

WheatloafMar 15, 20151 votes

If CC is the only thing that can stop her, that's not very much counterplay. And on Katarina's side of the argument, if CC doesn't just counter her, but makes her completely and utterly useless, doesn't that equally mean her design is broken and she's in need of a new one?

If Katarina's opponents only have the option of saving CC for when she uses her Ult, that isn't good.

If Katarina's only option is to wait until her opponents can't CC her to actually do anything, that isn't good.

Kat is absolutely not in a good spot design-wise, and as a result of that, it's definitely questionable whether she should be where she is balance-wise, either.

Spacesuit SpiffMar 16, 20152 votes

{quoted}

If CC is the only thing that can stop her, that's not very much counterplay. And on Katarina's side of the argument, if CC doesn't just counter her, but makes her completely and utterly useless, doesn't that equally mean her design is broken and she's in need of a new one?

If Katarina's opponents only have the option of saving CC for when she uses her Ult, that isn't good.

If Katarina's only option is to wait until her opponents can't CC her to actually do anything, that isn't good.

Kat is absolutely not in a good spot design-wise, and as a result of that, it's definitely questionable whether she should be where she is balance-wise, either.

This is exactly how they want her to work. Being rewarded for saving your cc for a priority target instead of just facerolling and dumping it all on the bruiser is a lot more interactive than most of the kits in the game.

MrPerson10Mar 16, 20152 votes

Bingo.

Also, I'd like to point out that Katarina has hands-down the WORST laning phase in the entire game. To really emphasize that: she's squishy, melee range with no CC and no early damage with little poke on a long CD (10 seconds, 8 seconds @ max)

WheatloafMar 16, 20151 votes

Being rewarded for saving your CC is all well and good, but if that's your only real course of action, that's not an interactive kit, that's a kit that forces you to take a specific action or else you lose.

The5lackerMar 16, 20151 votes

Well there's also dash out of her small range, kill her outright as she's generally building squish, shut her down early so she can't snowball off of your ADCs easy, build MR and ignore her, build Health and ignore her...

I feel like I'm missing something. Oh yes, the fact that CCing enemies to keep them from killing you and your team is basically the entire point of the team tank.