Diana Jungle

PiRoScOuT·Jan 8, 2015·2 votes·964 views

I think Diana deserves to be looked at again for jungle this season. People are talking about how that sustain champs are the ones that are dominating the jungle because the jungle camps are putting out more damage, I think this is true. Champs like , now I think that Diana could fit into this role. First her passive, when you attack 3 times you get an empowered aoe auto. This is very good for clear time. Now assuming that you take w, your shield that adds more aoe, and sustain. Once you hit three or four depending on what ability path you take you can gank decently well, with the displacement and slow, and decent damage. After six you can clear much faster and help out lanes a lot more.

My question is this, should Diana be considered for jungle in the new season, or does she deserve to be relegated to her current status or worse?

23 Comments

Blue Collar BearJan 8, 20152 votes

Having tried her, she has well enough sustain through her shield (which is W, btw). However, she runs into some serious mana problems without a Spirit Stone. So, you're either forced to buy an early Tear (which does nothing to solve your mana regeneration problems), take every blue buff (which will indefinitely hurt your mid laner), or buy Devourer to clear efficiently whilst saving mana (which takes away from very, very needed AP because your ratios are so big).

Despite this, she's still incredibly viable in the new jungle.

Alternatively, I realize that one could buy a Chalice, but I oppose this item on Diana. I don't like it. >:c

PiRoScOuTJan 8, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fluffysaurus Rex,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vZ6xiQOQ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-01-08T05:19:15.119+0000)

Having tried her, she has well enough sustain through her shield (which is W, btw). However, she runs into some serious mana problems without a Spirit Stone. So, you're either forced to buy an early Tear (which does nothing to solve your mana regeneration problems), take every blue buff (which will indefinitely hurt your mid laner), or buy Devourer to clear efficiently whilst saving mana (which takes away from very, very needed AP because your ratios are so big).

Despite this, she's still incredibly viable in the new jungle.

Alternatively, I realize that one could buy a Chalice, but I oppose this item on Diana. I don't like it. >:c

Thank you for the correction, and I take the route of taking every blue buff. I play her as an assassin, just build flat ap.

Blue Collar BearJan 8, 20151 votes

Taking every blue buff means that if your enemy jungler gives their blue to their mid laner, they will be able spam their abilities more. They will shove their lane, roam, and get kills. They could possibly even kill your mid laner. Wouldn't you rather that be your mid laner?

Angry MonsterJan 8, 20151 votes

or you can just gank the mid lane more and kill there mid laner. giving blu to the mid lane is not the only solution. This is solo q, do you want to carry or you want to be carried?

Blue Collar BearJan 8, 20151 votes

I guess I have more of a team mentality than you do.

The mid laner can do more with the blue buff than with what a jungler can. They are in a lane constantly against an opponent. The jungler is not. Imagine if for half the duration of the blue buff, the jungler was just using it to farm. That's not a good use of resources. That's what Diana jungle would use it for. The mid laner is in lane for the entire duration of the buff, constantly trading and using it to out damage and bully their opponent. It is even more important since mana regeneration has changed, and Morellonomicon (the top pick for most AP mid laners) does not have enough mana regeneration for these champions to spam their abilities.

Cale017Jan 8, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fluffysaurus Rex,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vZ6xiQOQ,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-01-08T17:47:24.129+0000)

I guess I have more of a team mentality than you do.

The mid laner can do more with the blue buff than with what a jungler can. They are in a lane constantly against an opponent. The jungler is not. Imagine if for half the duration of the blue buff, the jungler was just using it to farm. That's not a good use of resources. That's what Diana jungle would use it for. The mid laner is in lane for the entire duration of the buff, constantly trading and using it to out damage and bully their opponent. It is even more important since mana regeneration has changed, and Morellonomicon (the top pick for most AP mid laners) does not have enough mana regeneration for these champions to spam their abilities.

Depends on who the jungler is. A jungler who's heavily reliant on long cooldown abilities for max ganks, someone like Nocturne, loves the CDR boost. Someone who can quickly drain their mana pool dry loves the extra regen, like Skarner or Diana. A jungler can't gank well if they have no mana, and they can't gank well if they don't have any relevant skills off cooldown.

In general, yes, a blue buff should go to the midlaner. But there are instances where a jungler can make just as good a use of it as the midlaner can, especially if there's a risk that the midlaner might end up coughing it up. I'm sorry but if you're falling too far behind I don't feel safe giving a blue buff to you that I could use myself only to have you give it to a member of the enemy team.

Blue Collar BearJan 8, 20151 votes

Those are all relevant ideas. If your laner is 0/2 or worse, you probably shouldn't give that to them, especially if you could use the buff even for just farming.

I just have qualms about Diana jungle, because if you spam your abilities, you run out of mana quickly. If you don't, your clear suffers.

Cale017Jan 8, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fluffysaurus Rex,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vZ6xiQOQ,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-01-08T19:34:35.162+0000)

Those are all relevant ideas. If your laner is 0/2 or worse, you probably shouldn't give that to them, especially if you could use the buff even for just farming.

I just have qualms about Diana jungle, because if you spam your abilities, you run out of mana quickly. If you don't, your clear suffers.

See you'd think that, but honestly if you put two or three points into her W before maxing her Q, around that time you should also be finishing up your Magus enchant or preferably sooner, and the AoE on her shield takes most camps down pretty quickly. By the time it drops you've got your passive cleave ready and that'll take out the little guys if your shield didn't. I can usually just Q through a camp, W while I walk into them, and then just get the cleave off before having to move on. It's hardly spamming any more than most other junglers would for a camp clear.

Blue Collar BearJan 8, 20151 votes

I was playing her like old Diana jungle. Max Q first, instead of W.

Cale017Jan 8, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fluffysaurus Rex,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vZ6xiQOQ,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-01-08T20:44:41.194+0000)

I was playing her like old Diana jungle. Max Q first, instead of W.

Oh, you still max Q first. But you wait to start ranking it up after the first point until after your shield is at rank 2 or 3 depending on how much you want to sustain yourself. All it does is put you maxing the Q off first for another few levels, but more than makes up for it by keeping her healthy and increasing her clear times.

Cale017Jan 8, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fluffysaurus Rex,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vZ6xiQOQ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-01-08T05:19:15.119+0000)

Having tried her, she has well enough sustain through her shield (which is W, btw). However, she runs into some serious mana problems without a Spirit Stone. So, you're either forced to buy an early Tear (which does nothing to solve your mana regeneration problems), take every blue buff (which will indefinitely hurt your mid laner), or buy Devourer to clear efficiently whilst saving mana (which takes away from very, very needed AP because your ratios are so big).

Despite this, she's still incredibly viable in the new jungle.

Alternatively, I realize that one could buy a Chalice, but I oppose this item on Diana. I don't like it. >:c

... you realize that Spirit Stone isn't a thing anymore, right?

Blue Collar BearJan 8, 20151 votes

I was comparing her to the old Diana jungle.

AccountaBilabudyJan 8, 20152 votes

item 3027 also helps mana issues.

Hilltop SunsetJan 8, 20151 votes

I've been meaning to try RoA on Diana. It gives her more tankiness, a better manapool, and a little extra damage/tankiness from AP (tankiness from shield AP Ratio). I don't see why more people don't get this item on her, even if it's the only HP/Mana item they get on her.

Cale017Jan 8, 20151 votes

I didn't start playing her until the tail end of Season 4, and I didn't start REALLY playing her until after the jungle got updated. And, honestly, she does great in my opinion.

Putting an extra point or two in your W early on gives you MORE than enough of both sustain and waveclear. I've found that I can actually stay in the jungle for a lot longer using Diana early on than with my other, more dedicated junglers. Leveling the W a bit first before sinking the rest of the points needed into your Q to get it up to snuff really only affects the base damage you're getting off of her Q when you go to gank, since chances are you aren't going to be able to get in two Qs over the course of one gank anyways the cooldown isn't much of a factor. Just means I have to be even more aware of my positioning and make SURE that Q lands. All you have to do is get within range of them and E them for the knock back/slow and your laner can more than make up for the damage your Q isn't doing, if your ranked up shield doesn't do it already.

Get Magus, Lich Bane, Rabadon's, then go to town. I'm usually going ham by about minute 25 with relative impunity.

And then some dickwad has to go and build a Banshee's Veil to ruin my fun.

jv21blU7oDJan 8, 20151 votes

She can clear just fine but her ganks and lane pressure is absolute shit before level 6 so you pretty much have to bet on at least 2/3 of your lanes winning in the early stages which is risky. She also has huge mana problems without blue buff so you have to build something like a Morellonomicon if you want to have real game presence unless you're stupidly fed already.

KMannnnn1Jan 8, 20151 votes

Attack speed jungle diana was considered top tier when the changes first hit the pbe, and I'm fairly certain she still has one of the best clear speeds of current junglers.

Also, it's hilarious.

Drunk RummateJan 8, 20151 votes

I've done a lot of jungle diana earlier in the preseason. Her first clear is absolutely spectacular. The problem is that once blue buff falls off you have to stop using your shield for clear or you go oom, which means you're still buying lots of potions like any other non-sustain jungler.

I think the biggest issue with Diana jungle however is that she has absolutely no lane presence before level 6. Compare this to Vi or J4 or even Fiddlesticks who can absolutely destroy you with an early gank and you will see why she is not played very often. Even once she gets ultimate, she isn't really spectacular at ganking compared to a Vi or J4 or Fiddle with ult. Equally powerful at best.

So I stopped playing her because Vi can clear 4-5 camps before recalling if you smite properly and do the right camps.

ChainedUpFeb 9, 20151 votes

i think diana is a great jungler especially in solo que, (i often call her the jungle version of akali). Now she does have mana problems in the jungle because she needs the spell damage to clear early to mid game. I usually take nashors tooth after my trailblazer magus buy. It lets you clear fast with you auto attacks by increasing your attack speed (more passive hits) increasing your AP which helps your shield (if you need it) and your passive damage since it scales on AP, and finally nashors makes your auto attacks do bonus magic damage on hit which stacks with your passive magic damage as well. It also allows diana to spilt push if need be and do a lot more damage when she is auto attacking in someone's face after she combos in ( more likely than not her passive will hit more than one enemy in team fights ). i hope this gives some insight on diana for those trying her in the jungle.

PrinceOfStormsFeb 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

i think diana is a great jungler especially in solo que, (i often call her the jungle version of akali). Now she does have mana problems in the jungle because she needs the spell damage to clear early to mid game. I usually take nashors tooth after my trailblazer magus buy. It lets you clear fast with you auto attacks by increasing your attack speed (more passive hits) increasing your AP which helps your shield (if you need it) and your passive damage since it scales on AP, and finally nashors makes your auto attacks do bonus magic damage on hit which stacks with your passive magic damage as well. It also allows diana to spilt push if need be and do a lot more damage when she is auto attacking in someone's face after she combos in ( more likely than not her passive will hit more than one enemy in team fights ). i hope this gives some insight on diana for those trying her in the jungle.

She's actually trash tier though. Being unable to effectively gank pre-6, and having mana problems to the extreme hurts Diana big time. She also, unlike Akali, doesn't have any disengage tools. These two things basically turn her into a troll pick worthy of Urgot tier.

Being able to delete the ADC in a fight doesn't help when you have to rely on a finicky skillshot and then get deleted yourself afterwards.

ChainedUpFeb 9, 20151 votes

All i have to say is that granted shes not as good as junglers like jarvin and lee sin, but shes far from this urgot tier you speak of. I've played and watched many games where diana just snowballs out of control just off of a gank or two. Also to put into perspective champs like nunu where his ganks tickle pre six but is still a champ that is picked even in professional play, and fiddlesticks which is the same story but his lvl 6 power strike in insane and was even used in 2014 professionally in LCS and made piviotal plays to help SK beat Gambit Gaming. SO all because she has problems doesn't mean she's a bad jungler or champion at that. And feel free to look up people like Bejersen and Voyboy play diana and tell me how those games went.

PrinceOfStormsFeb 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

All i have to say is that granted shes not as good as junglers like jarvin and lee sin, but shes far from this urgot tier you speak of. I've played and watched many games where diana just snowballs out of control just off of a gank or two. Also to put into perspective champs like nunu where his ganks tickle pre six but is still a champ that is picked even in professional play, and fiddlesticks which is the same story but his lvl 6 power strike in insane and was even used in 2014 professionally in LCS and made piviotal plays to help SK beat Gambit Gaming. SO all because she has problems doesn't mean she's a bad jungler or champion at that. And feel free to look up people like Bejersen and Voyboy play diana and tell me how those games went.

However, after Diana was nerfed, she suffers essentially from these problems:

-She has to take Blue Buff essentially whenever its up, weakening the midlaner, who will be unable to take it. -She can get in... but then what? She's a sitting duck after she ults. -She doesn't have any early-game sticking power (Farmville junglers are seldom seen in pro play because there's no guarantee that the game won't have snowballed out of control by the time that the jungler has farmed up enough)

Whereas champions like Nunu or Fiddlesticks that you mentioned actually have use because of the following:

-Nunu has incredibly fast clear times and amazing sustain in the jungle -Fiddlesticks has amazing team presence with his ult, and is one of the few junglers that can solo dragon at a very early level.

Don't get me wrong I want Diana to work, she's my favorite champion, but I don't play her because she's pretty much outclassed in every regard.

ChainedUpFeb 9, 20151 votes

i hear what your saying and i understand that she can definetly be outclassed but i don't think your giving her as much credit as she deserves, you just have to keep in mind her mana problem ( which can be avoided but is definently annoying) and the fact you need to plan you ganks and your decisions to cause your ult to go on cooldown or wait for another Q to land. I don't think theres anything wrong with her kit she (like many other burst champs including syndra, yasuo, even oriana in you want to include her) lacks a true escape (even though her ult can save you in few situations) but you just need to keep that in mind when you play her.