Let's Talk ADC

Antonella··3 votes·1,738 views

I can't back up anything I'm saying, it's mostly how I feel. I feel that for about 2 years now, Riot has been slowly trying to destroy the ADC role. Removing Graves for example from bot, re-working Kog'Maw to be a cool hyper-carry only to be nerfed over and over again and then reverted to previous Kog'Maw but he still has his mana cost on his W and taking the niche AP Kog'Maw (the only viable Kog'Maw) and nerfing him yet again (because you know, fucking ADCs). Crit items are to damn expensive for crit users and games end so quickly we'll never be relevant. Lucian has been nerfed SO many times in the last 2 years he's a shell of his former self like Kog'Maw. His ult range reduced, his Q range reduced, armour pen being removed in favor of lethality, incoming nerfs for even those items and black cleaver. I hate the lethality meta just as much as the next guy, but for once in like a year ADCs can actually be a carry. They hit their power early and can be relevant. Once those items are nerfed again we go back to all ADC's being shit. I want to see Riot's ass lit on fire. Let's see some actual improvements to this role. To much focus has been on "tanks, juggernauts, assassins and mages" all designed to be relevant early and so they can more easily shit on ADCs. We need to see more than bork and last whisper changes. We need to see some significant buffs to many ADCs so they can be relevant early. Give us more damage on our spells so we can do something at 15-20 minutes. Maybe what we need is a new crit item that can give us some stats we can work with. Like a crit item with AD and attack speed. Why is it we have to spend nearly 6k to 50% do dmg and all the other roles only need about 3k to do lots of damage guaranteed? Fix this game.

25 Comments

LankPants4 votes

ADCs on this patch are a disgusting class, they just stack Lethality and get to deal true damage up to about 300 armour because of how Lethality stacks with LDR.

ADCs are being played everywhere right now, Corki mid, Quinn top, MF Support and Graves jungle are the cancers upon other lanes. MF, Jhin and Varus are all cancerous bot in their own right.

Just quit it with your special snowflake mentality, ADCs aren't weak, they're not irreverent, they're utterly broken. Your class doesn't need buffs, they need to be taken behind the shed and beat with a tyre iron until they can't move.

Antonella1 votes

I disagree. My post was NEVER about marksmen. It was about the role of ADC. If you aren't a champion that can benefit from lethality, don't even bother playing it. Right now, only about 5% of the ADC pool is viable in the ADC role. Quinn was never really an ADC. Corki is really strong, I'm not going to defend that. But I feel Corki is an example of what an ADC should feel like (but again Corki is to strong). ADCs should be putting out a lot of damage. The Graves re-work was a mistake. You can never balance him to make him satisfying to play. Either he does to much damage or he doesn't so he does damage over time which his kit can't allow him to be in a pro-longed fight like that. There really isn't anything you can fix about his kit other than revert his re-work. Which they won't because of pride. Graves was a perfectly balanced champion before they changed him, even though he came out before Lucian. Nobody wants the lethality ADC meta. It doesn't mean ADC is broken. About 3 are broken. Jhin, Varus and MF. Forget about all the other ADCs such as Tristana, Jinx, Kog'Maw, Sivir, Lucian, Vayne, Draven, Twitch, Kallista, Caitlyn and to some extant Ashe. Most of these champions want to build crit or is encouraged to build it yet they can't even hold a fucking torch to the trifecta 3 lethality ADCs. And guess what, if you banned the 3, all those ADCs are absolute shit. And entire role is completely shit and feel horrible to play.

MissingKayo3 votes

Riot's been pandering to ADCs for almost the entirety of League's lifespan.

Geshultz1 votes

{quoted}

Riot's been pandering to ADCs for almost the entirety of League's lifespan.

Actually they pander to a different class every certain set period of time. Most recent has been AD casters/AD assassins.

MissingKayo2 votes

Wrong. Lethality is still pandering to marksmen, not assassins. Marksmen got the assassins' itemization fucked up because they were abusing assassin items and Riot panders to the marksmen instead of solving the abuse.

AFilthyCaitMain1 votes

" and games end so quickly we'll never be relevant. " TRUE THAT!

Geshultz1 votes

I agree 100% with it and also the fact that the role needs more utility provided for ability to do their job as tank shredders. if you argue that marksmen bot lane should be highly reliant on support then we should remove all the CC from mages outside ultimate and slows because they are essentially the same thing as marksmen in terms of damage carries however the difference they aren't reliant on a person do the what the class is designed to do as mages which is the ability to burst, support the team with utility or pick a person off or a combination of all 3. In ways the Marksmen role in bot lane should be focused towards more self utility to survive dives such as movement speed buffs if they auto a person or skillshot to slow et ceteria. Add more utility into the items that ADCs build. Such as for example adding a .25 second CC immunity to Mecurial scimitar active(Note not the QSS active only Mecurial scimitar) as a way would give more utility to Marksmen bot lane without making them enormously overpowered. Even a revert of Mecurial nerfs would be an example of adding a skill factor into the role(Nerfs to mecurial is that it only removes crowd control wth the active and it lost 10 ad) as it doesn't invalidate all champions with 1.3k gold but instead requires a heavy investment into the item to get the benefit of removing all debuffs.

LankPants3 votes

Such as for example adding a .25 second CC immunity to Mecurial scimitar active

No, fuck off.

That item's already completely busted and a large part of what makes it utterly impossible to deal with ADCs in the late game as a tank. Merc Scim doesn't need to be buffed, it needs to be removed. Getting to ignore a CC should be a tradeoff, not a right for the entire class. You should feel like it's a shitty investment if you don't get a cleanse, not one of the strongest items in the game anyway.

Geshultz1 votes

Most busted item is item 3047 easily by miles. For 1.1k gold I can reduce all auto damage for 12% before armor regardless of armor. Also if your dying instantly as a tank late game that means 2 things 1 your away from your team not doing the job of the tank which is peeling or engaging with the team... Its a pure utility role. I play mostly tanks so I see both sides of each class and only times I die within 3 seconds as a tank is if I'm tanking an entire teams worth of damage which makes sense.

LankPants2 votes

For 1.1k gold I can reduce all auto damage for 12% before armor regardless of armor

For just 1300 gold you reduce the effect of an incoming CC by 100%. No, Ninja Tabi are not that strong, not even close.

Also if your dying instantly as a tank late game that means 2 things 1 your away from your team not doing the job of the tank which is peeling or engaging with the team... Its a pure utility role.

No, it's because Lethality stack cancer ADCs pen me from 300 armour to 20. I've been hit for over 3000 damage from a single fucking MF ult at 300 fucking armour. It's disgusting and it has to stop.

Also don't even get me started on Vayne, your tankiness doesn't matter because fuck you %HP true damage and your CC doesn't matter because fuck you QSS.

Antonella1 votes

Tanks have 1 goal. ONLY 1 goal. To disrupt and provide a front line. Right now tanks get to have no risk and all reward. It's such an easy role to play and you get rewarded with items that cost slightly higher than support items. I don't like armour pen ADC metas. It's less satisfying to play and annoying to play against. Because it throws all AA focused champions into the dumpster and only caster ADCs get to shine. Which are only a couple. As for Vayne. She's supposed to be high risk high reward. While she's been effective at killing tanks pretty much forever, you'll never see her in pro games and there's a good reason for that. She's easy to CC and nuke. And yes, Tabi's are stupidly broken. For 1.1k you get to negate 12% of all my AA damage. In a meta where AA ADCs can't do shit. Really? Push the narrative that only Caster ADCs are viable. If want to play Jinx in a ranked game, I will get fucked by enemy support, enemy Lethality caster ADC, jungler, one shot mage and a tank that can more or less assassinate me and I can never run away from.

LankPants1 votes

Tanks have 1 goal. ONLY 1 goal. To disrupt and provide a front line. Right now tanks get to have no risk and all reward. It's such an easy role to play and you get rewarded with items that cost slightly higher than support items.

Play them then. Play Poppy and Maokai and watch as the enemy top laner stacks lethality and destroys you. Play Sejuani and Amumu and watch as you have 0 jungle pressure against a BS diver and melt anyway because the enemy ADC bought a LDR.

Let's see you play some tanks. You have one tank game which is a loss in your entire history. If they're so easy spam some.

Antonella1 votes

I don't enjoy playing tanks. I find it unrewarding and not satisfying. But that's my personal preference. There's roles in the game for a reason because not everyone is cut from the same cloth. If you enjoy playing tanks, that's awesome. But don't tell me to play the role because YOU enjoy it. I enjoy playing ADC and Mid. I like feeling impactful from a different point of view. Every role should feel good to play and every role in the game should fit different playstyles. Not all top laners are tanks. Not every mid laner is an assassin. Not every Marksmen is a lethality abuser. Understanding what you're playing and what you're job is important. My job as a Marksmen is to provide DPS. You're job is stop me. Right now in the meta, you're job is a whole lot less stressful and easier to accomplish. I have to jump through hoops and pray a little. You get to just exist and walk around with out any risks. Which is FINE. That's your job. What I am complaining about, and every pro-player, challenger, etc ADCs is complaining about is not being relevant at all in a game that lasts on average 25 minutes. If a game goes to 40, everything feels great on my end. But 90% of the time, I won't get there. It takes just one bad move on my end to kill me (which is totally ok) and you can make all the mistakes you want, because you won't die. Building LW to deal with you, is totally acceptable because otherwise, I would never be able to do anything at all against you. It still takes time to kill you even with LW. Choosing to use my DPS on you in a team fight is still bad. The tank is usually what's left after the fight. I need to be able to kill you otherwise wtf is the point in playing a marksmen?

LankPants1 votes

I don't enjoy playing tanks. I find it unrewarding and not satisfying.

I'm not telling you to play tanks because you should enjoy them more than ADCs, I'm telling you to play them because you fundamentally misunderstand how they work.

You keep saying 'tanks are 0 risk', that's not at all true. Picking a tank right now is a huge risk. The simple fact is that every tank in the game is currently at risk of being early pressured out, even Maokai can be pressured out of the game by both lethality tops and cancer diver junglers.

My job as a Marksmen is to provide DPS. You're job is stop me. Right now in the meta, you're job is a whole lot less stressful and easier to accomplish.

That's kind of bullshit buddy. ADCs currently have amazing options to deal with tanks. They're generally high mobility, they have surprisingly good CC, very long ranges, they negate immense amounts of armour even with just a LDR, lethality negates way too much and they have the best counter CC options in the game in QSS and EoN, which you should currently buy on every single ADC because it's broken.

Tanks have a very hard time surviving in the current meta. Whether you like it or not the meta is cancer lethality ADCs. These champs pen a tank from 300 armour down to about 20. Tanks do not have options to deal with this, they do not exist. Tanks cannot function at current VS a meta team.

Please if you think I'm wrong about this prove me wrong. Play some tanks, just one or two games even in normals. Watch what happens when you are faced with lethality and pen, you don't function, you just melt.

Antonella1 votes

Ok, this is the last time I'm going to say this because I'm starting to believe you might have a learning disability. I agree with you about lethality. It's broken. I'm not even talking about them. I'm talking the other ADCs who can't or doesn't benefit from Lethality builds, which is majority of the marksmen played in bot.

LankPants2 votes

I'm talking the other ADCs who can't or doesn't benefit from Lethality builds, which is majority of the marksmen played in bot.

The majority of games you will be against a cancer lethality ADC. You don't seem to get that. If you played some tanks rather than just talking out of your arse you'd understand how rampant this problem is. Tanks don't function on this patch because there's always at least one enemy stacking lethality.

Crit ADCs on the other hand function fine. They do what they've always done, scale to late game and have insane DPS. If you want your hyperscaling ADC to also be strong early and mid you're being unreasonable. ADCs already invalidate every other class come late game, they need the early weakness to offset this. Same goes for lethality, that build needs to fall off and it currently doesn't.

You seem to live in some fantasy world where people don't play lethalty ADCs. You have to deal with these champions. They are the most common ADCs, you don't get an option. The fact that tanks cannot deal with this build is a deathnail.

Antonella1 votes

at this point I shouldn't even reply. I keep agreeing with you. I keep saying I hate the lethality meta. I keep saying it's broken. I keep agreeing with you. I don't know why you keep bringing it up over and over and over again. I fucking agree! The problem for the other 80-95% of the Marksmen played in bot is they can't lane against these lethality ADCs and they can't be relevant in games where there is no lethality because they scale into a game around 30-35 minutes where most games end around 25. There is a reason the meme "adc in 2016/7" existed". Before the Lethality patch, every ADC was considered trash. You had to build crit in a meta where the game ends around 25 minutes. Just let me agree with you. Stop fighting me. It's not even an opinion that merely the entire Marksmen role in bot lane is garbage right now (except again, those lethality ADCs).

Antonella1 votes

You can't really say that when most tanks can point and click CC and lockdown for 3-5 seconds in the middle of a team fight against a target with no armour, magic resist and has very little health. They are going to get completely nuked. Having a way to get out of CC effectively in a timely manner requires skill and awareness and mechanics, otherwise you'll die. It's not hard to kill an ADC. Especially when every team has several ways to jump and lockdown an ADC. ADCs are already shit. They would be unimaginably worse if they could never qss cc. You can't really even buy scimitar until much later because it gives you shit stats.

LankPants2 votes

You can't really say that when most tanks can point and click CC

Let's list the tanks with point and click lockdown.

Maokai , Nautilus . If you want to class him as a tank Skarner . Leona also technically has point and click CC but due to its range it doesn't actually work that way. Poppy has a point and click knockback of limited use as a pure knockback.

That's an extensive list hey?

Every other CC any tank has can be dodged. All of them. The marksman class has more point and click CC, Jayce E, Quinn E, Tristana R, Urgot R, Vayne E . When you compare point and click CC between the class that's meant to be low CC in general, the marksmen and the class that are CC specialists, the tanks, marksmen come up ahead.

Having a way to get out of CC effectively in a timely manner requires skill and awareness and mechanics

No, it doesn't. Avoiding the CC in the first place requires skill mechanics and awarness. Here's what you have to do to break a CC with a QSS. When you see the corners of the screen flash white (key for loss of control) you move your index finger from W to 2 or 3. Congrats, you just ignored most likely an ultimate with little to no skill. The skilled play would be to dodge or not be in position to be hit by it.

ADCs are already shit.

That's why they infest and seep into every single role at all levels of play. No they're not shit. Stop drinking Reddit's coolaid and look at this objectively for a second. There's at least 2 ADCs in every game, on average the number's probably about 3-3.5 due to champs like Graves, Corki and Jayce being quite common picks in other lanes.

ADCs aren't shit. They objectively aren't. If you think they feel shit, play a different role. We can't be buffing an objectively overpowered class because special little snowflake ADC main thinks they're not impactful enough.

Antonella1 votes

I'm losing the energy to argue with you. You still have NOT figured out what I'm bitching about. It has nothing to do Jayce (which btw, lol? Did you just say jayce is an ADC?) or Urgot or anybody like that. What I am talking about is Critical Strike Auto-Attack focused AD Carries. The only viable marksmen you can play in bot lane role effectively is fucking Jhin, Varus and Miss Fortune and that's because of Lethality. When it gets nerfed. Marksmen played in bot will go back to building Critcial Strike Chance builds which don't see a return on the HUGE investment until 30-40 minutes into a game when most games end around 25 minutes. Every other role in the game has plethora of champions that are relevant with little to no investment of gold, while Marksmen played in bot are faced with all these tanks, assassins, burst supports and burst mages when we can't even return damage. There is so much CC to the point where if you're an Auto Attacking based Marksmen the chances of being able to throw out meaningful damage is non-existant. That's why we have a meta where only marksmen from a mile away can do damage from spells. Even Corki is a caster marksmen to some extant. Coupled with Rapid Fire Cannon and his package, he's really safe to play. In order to play Marksmen in the current meta, you need to be able to poke from a long distance otherwise you're going to get jumped, cc-d by top, jungle, mid and support and even to some extant other marksmen from bot lane. Asking for a CC removable as an active is not unreasonable. It's not simply "get gud m8" it's more of like "holy shit, I can't even breath without being nuked".

B00B001 votes

if i was an employee i would suggest a system which alters gold costs in-game.

for instance, really slow pace, not many kills, no towers, or only a few but no real bloodbath i would keep the costs concurrent to now, if however the game was snowballing and engages constantly happening i would lower the cost of some more expensive items.

it would be a difficult and complicated system, but the problem with ADC's is that without the Apen like last season (lethality now) they lack that push in the mid game and are a late-game investment when games don't go that long we feel useless somewhat.

i dunno off the top of my head thought/idea no real thought has been put into it just spitballing.

LankPants1 votes

Just reduce the gold benefits of snowballing, lower gold for towers if you have more than the enemy team, make gold drop off quicker on deathstreaks and stack up quicker on killstreaks, reduce early death timers and make homeguards kick in earlier.

No need for complex systems.

Antonella1 votes

Snowballing is a core fundamental part of the game. You should be rewarded for playing better than your opponent. That's what leads to an advantage, which allows you to take objectives more efficiently. It would fucking blow if I'm shitting on an opponent and it makes no difference. Also, the game is to old to make such a huge change. I'm mostly a Mid/ADC player. A change like that would alienate a lot of players.

B00B001 votes

my idea:

summoner 14

you idea:

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

More from Gameplay

More by Antonella