Why are AD champions getting a third anti-AP item?

Durfain·Oct 18, 2016·4 votes·691 views

While mages are still stuck with only Zhonya's?

8 Comments

Handy Sandy Oct 18, 20163 votes

Because mages have range, waveclear, and don't fall off. Zhonya's is already really strong vs most assassins, we don't need another tool.

DurfainOct 18, 20161 votes

Because mages have range Caitlyn , waveclear Zed , and don't fall off Vayne .

AD champions already have item 3156 (anti-burst), item 3139 (utility) and AD assassins can also build item 3111 since they have boots flexibility. MR itemization is not at all an issue for most AD champions right now. I'm not against adding more flexibility to AD itemization but, in my opinion, AD itemization already outshines AP itemization and an additional AP armor item centered on survivability would be useful.

AstôlfoOct 18, 20161 votes

I don't particularly care for either side of the argument given it's only on PBE and not even released yet and is fully subjectable to tweaks as a result, but I think you're overreacting. Also, it doesn't help to pretend stating an exception case for each point means anything relevant in the slightest. Also, Vayne doesn't "fall off". Her early is weak as shit (or rather, was, before the Shiv-interaction buffs with Q). She was always a hyperscaling lategame carry.

And if you want to list specific items, I can do the same.

AP Champions have: item 3010 or any of its evolutions (anti-burst) item 3151 (anti-burst) item 3157 (anti-burst) item 3116 (utility) or any of its evolutions (utility) item 3001 (survivability)

Dark NephthysOct 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I don't particularly care for either side of the argument given it's only on PBE and not even released yet and is fully subjectable to tweaks as a result, but I think you're overreacting. Also, it doesn't help to pretend stating an exception case for each point means anything relevant in the slightest. Also, Vayne doesn't "fall off". Her early is weak as shit (or rather, was, before the Shiv-interaction buffs with Q). She was always a hyperscaling lategame carry.

And if you want to list specific items, I can do the same.

AP Champions have: or any of its evolutions (anti-burst) (anti-burst) (anti-burst) (utility) or any of its evolutions (utility) (survivability)

Besides for item 3157 all the items you listed only give HP (not even going to discuss item 3001 idk why you mentioned that as an item against AD champions..)

AD champions have multiple options for either AD/MR or AD/HP, while Mages only have AP/HP and the 1 AP/Armor item being item 3157 though I guess you could count item 3050 since it gives AP/Armor as well but no mid-lane mages build it. Just look at the amount of items that give AD/MR or AD/HP.

AD/MR: item 3156 item 3139 + the new item coming out

AD/HP: item 3022 item 3053 item 3071 item 3748 item 3078

While Mages are basically left with AP/HP which is easy to counter HP with the amount of champions and items that give % HP damage in the game. Besides Mages need the HP for the late game to even have a chance to stay alive against these updated assassins and ADCs. Not to mention that AD champions have Crit, and Life steal which mages can't get (besides for item 3146 which not every mage can really utilize). The only thing that mages really had over AD champions was the better access to CDR which ADs have almost as much as well.

AstôlfoOct 18, 20161 votes

So what? HP is survivability, and is better than resistances in some cases. Catalyst and its evolutions provide survivability. They also provide utility. Scepter provides survivability against AP champions.

Mallet is extremely uncommon. Cleaver is almost solely for bruisers (aka, toplane, not midlane where it matters for the laning phase). Titanic Hydra is rare and almost solely on some bruisers and tanky fighters. Triforce is an abusive item in general, but not everyone utilizes it well.

And no, if a mage doesn't want to die to an assassin or anyone else for that matter, they should stick with their team and use their CC/team peel to do that. Not rely on items. That's the entire reason they get to have so much AoE damage and CC and utility themselves.

Handy Sandy Oct 18, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Because mages have range , waveclear , and don't fall off .

AD champions already have (anti-burst), (utility) and AD assassins can also build since they have boots flexibility. MR itemization is not at all an issue for most AD champions right now. I'm not against adding more flexibility to AD itemization but, in my opinion, AD itemization already outshines AP itemization and an additional AP armor item centered on survivability would be useful.

Wait..But..you listed 3 champions for 3 different jobs instead of just one mage?

Mages have cc, kiting ability, burst, peel, all the defense in the world isn't going to stop Khazix from getting killed in a combo unless he's building full tank with little to no damage items, yes, even those "anti burst" items, he's still going to die from Syndra Orianna Annie Anivia