I challenge any Rioter to explain to me the value of allied creepblock

Durfain·Aug 28, 2016·123 votes·3,920 views

You know, the kind where you go to cs an enemy minion but you can't because you get stuck inside your own minionwave. I think creep block in general is garbage but you can, at least, make an argument for enemy creepblock even if it's just so that certain passives exist but I fail to see how getting screwed over by your own minions adds any outplay potential to the game, it just pisses me off and makes me want to not play melee top laners.

110 Comments

Vistha KaiAug 28, 201649 votes

What are you saying? Nothing feels better, than to go back and forth 5 times around one minion, while trying to CS as a melee!

DealthAug 29, 20166 votes

That never happens. It's just some scenario you made up in your head to get upvotes and protest against Riot because you have no real problems of your own so you make up problems against some online game company complaining about a mechanic thats been in the game since season 1

RedagaAug 29, 20164 votes

meanwhile you are on -17. try to guess who is on the wrong

JonxxAug 29, 201619 votes

While he indeed is not in the right, upvotes/downvotes in the end proves nothing by themselves. Example, Tyler1 ban thread.

ProzzakAug 29, 20163 votes

I have (personally) never had to go back and forth 5 times to get around ONE minion. Pretty sure the guy is exaggerating and he got called out about it. Now 3-4 minions and going back and forth? Ok. 1 minion and changing direction once or twice? Ok. But one and 5 times? Doubtful.

Pika FoxAug 29, 20161 votes

While exaggerated, pathing does cause loss of CS. It happens to me all the time. I calculate minion HP, my damage, and how long i assume ill take to get to that minion while dancing around enemy threat range, only to have my champion sidestep back and forth for half a second and make me miss that minion, get confused as to what the fuck my champion is doing, and throw me off time to get 3 or 4 more.

Even half a second is a huuuuuge deal.

DealthAug 29, 20161 votes

I didn't say creep block didn't happen, I just said that "going back and forth around one minion 5 times" doesn't happen. That will never, ever happen. Period. Will it happen if there are a lot of minions? Sure. But what he described is just delusional and shows how far off the boards are from reality.

Pika FoxAug 30, 20161 votes

It can happen; if you send multiple commands to your champion to try to correct for the random ass pathing it could repath back and forth for a while. Though thats partly user error, even though the user isnt to blame since its a reasonable action to expect.

NarasimhaAug 28, 201618 votes

Off the top of my head, it's so you can't do things like run up to the enemy laner, hit them, then run back safely through your own minions.

SchàdenfreudeAug 28, 201614 votes

Except then the enemy laner can also do it to you. so...

Starfish HAug 29, 20162 votes

Some Champions can do it better than others Darius Teemo Pantheon etc will, abuse this as free pok,e and damage then you can't do anything about it. Other champs like Galio Nasus Malphite can't really use this type of abuse and will probably drop outta meta completely.

statelesskillerAug 29, 201614 votes

wait . . . your saying a buff that makes it easier to cs will make NASUS go out of the meta?

Starfish HAug 29, 20161 votes

It makes him easier to cs but way more easy to get poked down in lane which Nasus hates. I guarnetee you Nasus will be unplayable unless he's against someone he can farm against. Champions like Darius Teemo will make his life a living hell. Pantheon especially.

statelesskillerAug 29, 20163 votes

there is no champion in the top lane that cant already fuck Nasus at first. and making friendly creep block not a thing will not fuck him any harder.

Pantheon doesnt need to worry about creep block cause he can just q you. again and again and again and again. and then w you to get onto you. and get around creep block

Darius can pull you to him or land decent ranged harass with his q. and his E pretty much garuntees he isnt walking STRAIGHT at you. but he doesnt need to cause you get slowed so much that by the time the slow wears off he has pathed around the minion block

Teemo just needs to press q/AA. and teemo mostly stays at the edge of his minion wave anyways.

the only person i can think of that would make this worse against nasus might be Irelia as she likes to dance through minion waves. but she is already so hilariously good against nasus that it doesnt matter anyhow

Starfish HAug 29, 20161 votes

Example: Darius stands inside minion. Hell any Champion that can duel Nasus early which is everybody will stand inside it and deny him.. Now you have a 50% chance to click on it or you click on Darius by accident. Now he's standing on top of the Melee minion. You can't get it unless you want a Q to the face. Teemo runs into the edge of minion wave and Q-auto-auto. He then scampers back to inside back one of his minions. Pantheon stands inside a minion and anytime you get near he E's then Q. Now how can you farm?

statelesskillerAug 30, 20161 votes

press E. then E again. then E again. . . and again and again. start dorans ring. thats how. you eventually bully them out of health. and that minion block change will not change anything related to that

It Hertz When IPAug 29, 20162 votes

Also so you can't take a large hitbox champion (Hec for example) and stand over your own cannon minion, preventing them from CSing it.

Bladerunner7777Aug 28, 201611 votes

Because without it you can stand within your own minion wave and never get hit by skill shots making point and click champions OP

/thread

BloodyTomponAug 29, 201611 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Reinboom,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=qRHotV9k,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T19:40:44.893+0000)

Champions can and do have hitboxes themselves.

Hitboxes are vital to all games of this type. It's what skillshots check against to hit, for example.

If you want to shrink their collision radius, what you'll initially get is that minions will start stacking on top of each other. The "formations" they create (lines, clumps, etc.) is more a product of their collision radius than anything else. Without it, things start to get weird:

http://i.imgur.com/swfZjYF.png

For champion specific collision removal (ghost through minions) you start losing a lot of other gameplay. Manipulating a minion wave for lane defense or offense IS a skill test in League and it's a major contributor to how a lot of lanes play. There's a cost to Blitzcrank charging you directly with a clump of minions in his path. Annie needs to expose herself to skillshots to have a clean chance of landing a stun Q if she would otherwise need to go through the wave.

There's even more significant abuse cases that removing champion to minion collision creates. For example, the aforementioned Annie can just stand inside a minion wave to be safe from skill shots in general.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/qRHotV9k-minion-ai-rules-documentation?comment=0002000000000000

Doctor DymentAug 29, 20162 votes

This man understands.

Pale PirateAug 29, 20161 votes

But unit collision used to be less annoying and these problems also didn't appear??

SociopathFriendAug 29, 20163 votes

This is said a lot- but I can't help but wonder how much of it is smoke vs fire. Especially when that same thread states minions really haven't changed.

It Hertz When IPAug 29, 20162 votes

Unit collision has never been much of an issue. What few people on the Board realize is that the issue is with PATHING, i.e. the AI in recent times suddenly becoming substantially dumber at figuring out how to get through/around a minion wave when you input a movement command. It started after an AI overhaul/update a while back, and seems to be getting worse.

MirkhailAug 29, 20169 votes

1)Most ability interact with enemy minions, if you can stand in your minions a lot of champions would become useless 2)Make lane a bit more "dynamic" since you have to get past your minions 3)To make minions feel like a presence on the field

redfeenixAug 28, 20166 votes

Seperates the good players from great players.

If Darshan was good he wouldnt have taunted right in the middle of 4 minions. A great player wouldnt have made such a mistake, as they know just how fkn OP creepblock is.

TotalJerkAug 29, 20163 votes

Darshan taunted into enemy minions.

Starfish HAug 29, 20165 votes

So Champions that the board loves to complain about and are frustrating won't be top tier. Champs like Heimerdinger that simple change will bring this boi straight to LCS and pick and ban. His turrets and minions will prevent him from getting hit and prevent people from getting in. Yasuo can now walk through minion waves like their air while you struggle to click around them Riven will just combo you everytime you get near one while being inside a melee minion meaning no minions for you. Not only that it'll just prevent champions with skill shots to do stuff in laning phase Blitzcrank Thresh Ahri Ashe Ezreal Nidalee Nautilus Ziggs Taliyah Vladimir and many more wont be able to poke you laning phase or cc you because you'll be stuck inside a minion. Id rather have a small I convince than a change that would redefine the meta and make some champs pretty much useless.

CoperosAug 29, 20161 votes

You know the boards doesn't seem to realize Heimerdinger 's W/L is less then 50%. AND he's the champions who's mains are the most hardcore in all of league... So apparently having a strong presence during the laning phase instantly disqualifies any champion, from being buffed. Even when undeniable proof is slapped in a lot of the board communities face they'll tell you "too cancerous" or some shit. Then dislike bomb you and circle jerk each other. Btw Heimer would need way more then this, to see LCS coverage.

Starfish HAug 29, 20161 votes

I never said Heimerdinger was strong just said he's very frustrating to play against. I think he would as he'd just stand inside his big turret or minions while you're getting him and make it very difficult to click on him.

ChuChuMuthaDuckaAug 30, 20161 votes

Just kind of nitpicking, but I don't think brand, ahri or ziggs would be that affected. Sure ahri charms and brand stuns would be harder to land, but overall I doubt they would need to change much. And ziggs doesn't have any ablities that can be blocked by minions the way a charm might be.

MelledoneusAug 29, 20164 votes

You know, the kind where you go to cs an enemy minion but you can't because you get stuck inside your own microwave.

Am I the only one who read it as that?

WyrmbladeAug 28, 20163 votes

I hate creepblock, but removing it would nerf champions whose skills don't go through minions.

LatetotheRaceAug 28, 20161 votes

How so?

KVbqbFsC8eAug 29, 20163 votes

Imagine trying to CS against a Nautilus/Maokai or some lane bully, who can literally stand on top of their minions. You would not be able to CS. Thats why minion block exists.

HigeAug 29, 20163 votes

actually, playing around your minions is a layer of difficulty that Riot had stated they wanted since a long time ago, this brings champions with ghosting effects up and makes the passive on Ghost more appreciable.

Everyone complains about minion block, but no one takes ghost...

blkKalameetAug 29, 20161 votes

because tp is more useful in the long term, and flash is too op not to take in 99% of your games.

HigeAug 29, 20161 votes

don't get me wrong, I don't take ghost either since every other summoner spell seems way more useful, but I barely have a problem with minion block and honestly I don't think it's that big of an issue, 1 out 10 games you get minion blocked and in that game only once or twice in the whole duration of the match...

Minion block is not THAT big of a problem and if someone keeps falling into minion traps then they should consider using the solution that's already in the game, ghost.

blkKalameetAug 30, 20161 votes

it's bigger than just getting stuck though. it's how minions and everything coded as such negatively impacts pathing since the most recent change to the system.

if I click the other side of my minions I should walk around or between them, occasionally you will instead bug out for a second as the minions slightly move and screw up your pathing.

HigeAug 30, 20161 votes

yeah I've seen this happen, the problem is the actual bounding box of the units, I think the hitboxes are actual boxes, meaning that they are invisible cubes that surround every unit, when the minions position themselves in an arc formation, in between cubes appear these angled corner like empty spaces that are accessible so the game paths you through it, the other side though is too narrow for your own hitbox to go through, this results in the minions either being pushed away a little or you being denied entry, what happens in game is a bit of both.

The problem, and the actual creep block, happens when one of the minions moves a little and your own hitbox is squished in between both of their hitboxes, the path that was there a while ago in the shape of an angled corner is now a hallway that's too narrow for you to fit in, so you can't get out of there until one of the hitboxes is cleared.

The solution to this is probably incresing minion's hitboxes size, that way you reduce "angled corner spaces" in between them but there will ALWAYS be a chance for someone to get stuck so Riot would need to implement some kind of AI where minions recognize each others proximity and react accordingly... naturally, this kind of technology takes time to code and we'd be very naive to think that they aren't actively working on a solution at this very moment.