Improving Garen

Crescent Dusk··4 votes·910 views

The champ is pretty terrible because it's trying to be a Darius and failing rather badly at it. The obvious fix is to differentiate him from Darius.

That is, he should be a vanguard that is durable and reduces damage taken by his allies while healing from timing skills to absorb large hits. While Darius wants to snowball fights, Garen should be about strangling fights out by frustrating burst attempts against his team and winning by attrition.

Garen has a garbage laning phase for 3 reasons:

1- His sustained damage is pretty bad (the less problematic part) 2- No in-combat sustain whatsoever. His passive has got to be one of the most gimmicky garbage in the game and should be changed. 3- His villain mechanic is terrible. It should function like Kindred's mark, at lv6 Garen assigns a villain and that triggers a 30 sec cd between changing villains.

Key changes

Garen's weakest skill by far is his W. Until it's scaled up, it's quite terrible as an active skill of its own. Compare this to Irelia's W or Fiora's parry or Vladimir's pool or Riven's shield+leap or Urgot's shield. Point being, as a mitigation tool this is quite a horrendous ability with an even worse cd.

The obvious fix is to reduce the cd on it and make it a 50% damage reduction for 2 seconds that makes you CC/snare immune and lowers the attack and movement speed of those that hit you while it is up.

Then we should look at Judgement. Remove the ridiculous penalty on multiple targets hit; Darius doesn't do less damage when an axe hits multiple minions, why should Garen be completely screwed by the presence of minions or teammates in a teamfight when using his main contribution to a teamfight?

Furthermore, this ability should not do less DPS than autoattacks until several rank ups. Scale it up.

If Garen channels the full duration of Judgement, he should be healed for X% of the damage dealt by Judgement after the final tick hits an enemy champion.

As far as the Q and ult, they could seriously use animation reductions. I can't count the amount of times the ult constantly fails to land because of how long it takes to go off. Q's movement speed should always be active upon activation, not wear off after hitting someone with Q.

I actually don't think Garen needs initiation/gap closers. Bruisers should stay heavily countered by proper ranging; Darius is just an anomaly with his ridiculous pull, but I don't want bruisers to counter mages and ADC's because mages and ADCs should be the counters to bruisers while bruisers counter any melee who engages them such as assassins or fighters.

I might even suggest that the ult needs changing because as it currently exists it's just a way worse version of a Darius ult without the reset and way more ramp up to using it even against a villain.

I would look at Kayle or Lulu's ult for inspiration in terms of making him an immovable object that highly supresses all damage, including true damage, during the ult and radiates tenacity to his team.

In essence, make Garen a defensive counterpart to Darius where he's focused on retaliation and frustrating dives against his team by making him really hard to remove if he times his W and ultimate+E right and ends up winning the war of attrition.

9 Comments

Lonely Islånder2 votes

There are master tier garen mains... I cant believe I actually just saw a post about improving garen

Crescent Dusk2 votes

There are master tier of every champ...

Rexxiee2 votes

Garen is one of the highest WR + PICK champs in the top lane/game right now.

Yes, a 53% wr champ with a over 10% pick rate needs to be buffed, totally.

Critmaster Garen5 votes

{quoted}

Garen is one of the highest WR + PICK champs in the top lane/game right now.

Yes, a 53% wr champ with a over 10% pick rate needs to be buffed, totally.

51% and 8% pick rate. please dude.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/garen/platinum

and we both know his pickrate is only so high because of his skin.

Weiner the Pooh2 votes

Garen is not terrible, he has great stats at all levels of play for such an easy and simple character that really doesnt have any meaningful counterplay.

Crescent Dusk3 votes

Can you gtfo with these types of comments already. The whole point of the change suggestion is to place complexity on the champ by shifting away his passive survival and Q+e>ult combo into something that takes more effort.

Jesus fucking christ, if it were for you people champions like Garen and Annie would rot in low elo and be kept artificially not viable just because they're "easy".

Guess who else is fucking easy, my S tier talon who against any melee doesn't even need to land a skillshot thanks to the nature of W, gets braindead waveclear, and just needs R+Q to 2 shot an ADC.

Guess who else is easy, Tryndamere who has no skillshots and just autoattacks you down while occasionally using his ult.

Guess who else is easy and has no skill shots critical to perform well. Fucking Trundle, you lay down W and autoattack things to death.

So get lost with this "he's easy so he must be trash" mantra.

Wukong is another point and click champ and he's S tier in top, midlane, and jungle. So cut the shit already.

redniwediS1 votes

trying to be a Darius

You got the order wrong. Garen came first, Darius was the unoriginal one.

PopcornBunni

[{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v3RxGEjV,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-07-10T19:55:18.650+0000) That is, he should be a vanguard that is durable and reduces damage taken by his allies while healing from timing skills to absorb large hits. While Darius wants to snowball fights, Garen should be about strangling fights out by frustrating burst attempts against his team and winning by attrition.

Garen has a garbage laning phase for 3 reasons:

https://i.imgur.com/6VTIgrw.png

Literally his highest winrate is in the early game. The fucker dominates laning phase with his infinite sustain.

Critmaster Garen4 votes

{quoted}

https://i.imgur.com/6VTIgrw.png

Literally his highest winrate is in the early game. The fucker dominates laning phase with his infinite sustain.

his winrate spike above 15 minutes is because of his midgame power spike. means if garen does not lose early (not the same as winning), he has the best chances to win the game by closing out early. it doesnt neccessarily mean that his early game is strong.

his early game is actually garbage, but he is good at not dieing and his midgame power spike is strong enough to give him a good winrate at 15 minutes, when he just farms up.

his sustain actually isnt great compared to a lot of champions. his passive combined with his base health regeneration gives him barely more health regen than a lot of top laners have by default. in lane, his own sustain is actually one of his weakest attributes. you take one bad trade and youre kindof boned and zoned from cs for a minute.

imo they should do this with his passive:

PERSEVERANCE garens next basic attack against champions deals 2% of his maximum health in physical damage, and heals him by the same amount (3 sec cooldown)

takedowns on minions and monsters trigger the heal and reset the cooldown perseverence deals true damage against villains (replaces the current 1% max health true damage on auto attacks against villains)

pros: garens passive is more versatile. he can heal both, in and out of combat. last hitting sustains him against poke in the lane. auto attacking enemy champions grants him sustain during fights

the 3 second cooldown would allow him to have the empowered attack ready before and after a full spin.

this passive would allow him to get better at extended fights, instead of being forced into a hit and run trading pattern.

cons: cant regain health passively anymore by staying out of enemy poke range.

i realize, that this is basically a frontloaded grasp of the undying. but i feel like grasp is pretty much what garens passive should be. with the addition of getting some health back for csing, so he doesnt get demolished by anyone with any amount of ranged poke.

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